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| National Guardsman Responds to Talking Heads | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 12 2009, 04:23 PM (314 Views) | |
| zzphilanchez | May 12 2009, 04:23 PM Post #1 |
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Starshina
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In a letter to columnist Charles Krauthammer, a National Guard Lieutenant Colonel explains why torture is wrong. Linky
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![]() “While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” Eugene Debs “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it.” Karl Marx Revolutionary Socialist | |
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| aramil | May 12 2009, 08:45 PM Post #2 |
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Senior Warrant Officer
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Owned pretty badly. It's great when those who actually know what they're talking about speak up. |
![]() President: Hu Jintao Premier: Wen Jiabao Population: 1.35 billion (as of 2009; 0.7% growth; 1st) GDP: $8 trillion (as of 2009; 9% growth; 2nd) Organizations: UN, APEC, ASEAN+3, SCO, BRIC Allies: TBD Conflicts: that wayward island Strained Relations: TBD | |
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| zzphilanchez | May 12 2009, 08:46 PM Post #3 |
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Starshina
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Indeed. This made my day, and shows why Foreign Policy.com pwns all. |
![]() “While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” Eugene Debs “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it.” Karl Marx Revolutionary Socialist | |
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| Schwerpunkt | May 12 2009, 09:08 PM Post #4 |
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Dalek Caan
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I'd agree that he was pretty thorough, but he never provided any evidence at all to point to support his claim that torture never works. |
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| United States [Sel] | May 12 2009, 09:09 PM Post #5 |
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The Creator
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About time someone shoved Kraut's foot in his mouth. He really needs to be Litvinenko'd. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| United States [Sel] | May 12 2009, 09:10 PM Post #6 |
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The Creator
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It's called personal experience. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| Russia (X) | May 12 2009, 09:13 PM Post #7 |
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Resident Anarchist
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Theoretically I don't understand how torture would be so effective as it is in "lolsuperman 24." Ideological motivation can drive someone past pain, otherwise why would they be in that place? There's already some resistance, or they wouldn't be against you. Even in the ticking-timebomb scenario, if I'm the terrorist I would just give you false info to satisfy you for long enough that the attack succeeds. And I make myself a martyr politically because you tortured me. Lose-lose for you. |
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[align=center] Russia Today Ministry of Foreign Affairs Armed Forces of Russia Research Rosoboronexport [/align]
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| zzphilanchez | May 12 2009, 09:19 PM Post #8 |
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Starshina
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QFT |
![]() “While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” Eugene Debs “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point, however, is to change it.” Karl Marx Revolutionary Socialist | |
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| zzwanderjar | May 12 2009, 09:21 PM Post #9 |
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Senior Sergeant
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It usually doesn't work that way. Frankly, it depends on the person. Sometimes torture can be effective if the person is weak willed and will simply crack under the pressure. Others who give out longer will ultimately not give up anything of use, and if they do its time frame of usefulness has usually passed. Additionally, people will say all kinds of things to make the pain stop, thats true, but generally questions involved in torture cannot be answered in such a fashion. Generally speaking what happens is that the intel recieved from the person is matched up with present intelligence analysts. If they say, "Yeah, this intel checks out to a theory we have" then they know what is up and go with it. If it simply doesn't check out, they keep going to see if it varies the next time he talks or if it remains consistant. A liar can easily be exposed because, when fatigued, in pain, and under unbelievable stress, your ability to continue lying about something and remembering a made up story is shockingly difficult. But hell... Truth is, the average solder, sailor, or marine doesn't know shit, so getting intel out of him is useless anyway. That being said, I don't approve of it in any way, shape, or form. We're supposed to be the good guys...the good guys don't do shit like that. |
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| Russia (X) | May 12 2009, 09:38 PM Post #10 |
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Resident Anarchist
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That's an assumption. The chances of a terrorist being weak willed and yet having a chance of possessing intel worthy are pretty damn low. The average grunt won't know shit so torturing them is useless. BOLDED SECTION: Interrogation techniques - if a person repeats a story with ease, and apparently accurately every time it's because they're trying to fool you with their "accuracy". Under stress, real people aren't that good. People forget, people fuck up. Even more so when all you are is the embodiment of pain. When a person consistently repeats the same story "broken record" or whatever, they're trying to convince you it's genuine. The human mind goes "well, if I make it sound convincing enough..." and then the subject take it too far. The lack of variations or change of detail is the giaveaway, in part for the reason I just mentioned (self convinced that "accuracy" will be convincing) and another important factor - if you make up a story, it likely will lack the creative, abstract details reality has. A constantly repeated story suggests it's false because the human mind won't come up with additional details to throw in or distract you with every retelling of the story. Real people can't remember verbatim. They change as they realize or forget details that they didn't think of before. Because a person made up a story, they "know" all the details, and include them to make the story seem real. But trouble is, that also means there's none of the honest, tell-tale "human error" factor which a real story will change with, as perceptions of a situation change. Interrogators don't think of the mind as a clockwork, finely-tuned machine. Otherwise, why would they bother trying to break it? |
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[align=center] Russia Today Ministry of Foreign Affairs Armed Forces of Russia Research Rosoboronexport [/align]
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| zzdoncampos | May 12 2009, 10:11 PM Post #11 |
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Lieutenant
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Torture is for the weak. Any person who considers it a viable way of getting evidence is an idiot. The movie with Leonardo DiCaprio about the CIA in Jordan is good. |
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I will prepare and some day my chance will come. ~Abraham Lincoln ![]() I was born for a storm and the calm does not suit me. ~Andrew Jackson | |
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9:40 AM Jul 11