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Swine Flu?
Topic Started: Apr 26 2009, 11:11 AM (1,687 Views)
zzrider
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Nothing to worry about, I have health insurance.
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Russia (X)
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Nothing to worry about, my country doesn't discriminate against citizens regarding health care.
Swine flu = hype. What's worse is what the Israelis call it: "Mexican flu." Are they trying to justify anti-Semitic remarks?
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zzdoncampos
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They call it because Pigs aren't clean or something of that nature.

Health Insurance isn't that great to have. In the US. You get to live under debt.
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Dax
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Well, I guess those of us who can't afford health insurance should just be bussed off a cliff, then.
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zzcesilia
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^Ouch

Ebola Zaire Mayinga is much worse
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zzdoncampos
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My new thing is adding to the hype of Swine Flu because the flu doesn't kill people it's the panic that does.
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Greece (TheOne)
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Congo [Rommel
 
,28 Apr 2009 17.44.31] It isn't serious. In Mexico the only dead people are poor people who do not get medical attention. We have very close family friends in Mexico City and they say that everything is being hyped and sensationalized. They don't know anyone with Swine Flu and they don't know anyone that knows someone that knows someone with Swine Flu.

WHO on Level 4 alert out of 6 - 6 being global pandemic.
They also say its too widespread now to contain. Wasn't bird flu more widespread?

The seriousness in this is that it is easily transmittable between people, unlike bird flu. The symptoms are also a lot like regular flu.
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zzdoncampos
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And?

Do people really understand what those Levels mean?
It has nothing to do with death or imminent death. It just means another country has gotten "infected".

Also, What the stupid news and WHO does not tell you is that the people that died in Mexico had other pre-existing conditions that were deadly.
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Amzi
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People are making waaaaaay to big a deal about this. This is going to turn out to be a BIG NOTHING. Just like West nile virus, just like bird flu.
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Greece (TheOne)
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Congo [Rommel
 
,28 Apr 2009 20.07.05] Also, What the stupid news and WHO does not tell you is that the people that died in Mexico had other pre-existing conditions that were deadly.

And? And nothing, I was just saying.

What other pre-existing deadly conditions did they have?

Besides the fact they were poor, had no access to health care and/or what access they did have was to sub standard health care.
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United States [Sel]
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Mars X
28 Apr 2009 17.53.25
Nothing to worry about, my country doesn't discriminate against citizens regarding health care.
Swine flu = hype. What's worse is what the Israelis call it: "Mexican flu." Are they trying to justify anti-Semitic remarks?

It's no more racist than the Russian flu of 30 years ago. It's a flu that started in Mexico...Mexican flu.
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United States [Sel]
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Congo [Rommel
 
,28 Apr 2009 17.55.54] They call it because Pigs aren't clean or something of that nature.

Health Insurance isn't that great to have. In the US. You get to live under debt.

It's called swine flu as a shortening of swine, human, and avian flu. In all reality, Mexican flu might be the most adequate name available...until the PC train express comes along.
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United States [Sel]
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Congo [Rommel
 
,28 Apr 2009 20.07.05] And?

Do people really understand what those Levels mean?
It has nothing to do with death or imminent death. It just means another country has gotten "infected".

Also, What the stupid news and WHO does not tell you is that the people that died in Mexico had other pre-existing conditions that were deadly.

Rommel, you are not a doctor. Stop pretending you know what you are talking about. What are these conditions?
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Iraq [Amzi
 
,28 Apr 2009 20.08.51] People are making waaaaaay to big a deal about this. This is going to turn out to be a BIG NOTHING. Just like West nile virus, just like bird flu.

No they aren't this is completely different. WN and Avian could not pass from human to human. People are so quick to dismiss the seriousness of this new flu strain because they do not understand it and do not want to believe that humans can be brought down by a little fleck in someone's spittle.


Also, the reason no one has died outside Mexico yet is because it has not incubated in the US long enough for pneumonia to develop in people. Already there are at least 2 US deaths and more are well on the way in the next week as people succumb to the pneumonia.
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Pericles
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The solution is simple.

We kick all the Mexicans out of the country, because obviously, the Mexican flu only infects Mexicans. KK?
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zzdoncampos
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You aren't an expert either. So, You might as well shut your mouth and let me just ramble. I do not know exactly as my family friends did not discuss them but the Mexican Media has. Also, What US deaths? The Californian ones because those have been ruled out.
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Amzi
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The media is making this seem like the end of the world. Guess who is going to die if anyone' from this? The very young, and the old.
This is my viewpoint, and I will only change my mind until I start seeing a pandemic.

But I am aware of the situation and will stay updated, so I will not be one of the ignorant ones to die, IF this does happen.
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zzBugs
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,28 Apr 2009 22.09.31]
Iraq [Amzi
 
,28 Apr 2009 20.08.51] People are making waaaaaay to big a deal about this. This is going to turn out to be a BIG NOTHING. Just like West nile virus, just like bird flu.

No they aren't this is completely different. WN and Avian could not pass from human to human. People are so quick to dismiss the seriousness of this new flu strain because they do not understand it and do not want to believe that humans can be brought down by a little fleck in someone's spittle.


Also, the reason no one has died outside Mexico yet is because it has not incubated in the US long enough for pneumonia to develop in people. Already there are at least 2 US deaths and more are well on the way in the next week as people succumb to the pneumonia.

I think NYT says Swine claimed the first American victim this past night...
A toddler.
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Greece (TheOne)
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Yep, a 26 month old child is the first victim outside of Mexico. Apparently though the kid was from Mexico..

Quote:
 
So, You might as well shut your mouth and let me just ramble.


I think this sort of attitude is part of the problem which has forced some people including Dax to question their involvement here.

Still waiting to hear what those "conditions" are....
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zzrider
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,28 Apr 2009 18.13.28] Well, I guess those of us who can't afford health insurance should just be bussed off a cliff, then.

No, which is why we need health care reform.
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Dax
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024611.stm

"Egypt, for its part, began a mass slaughter of all 300,000 pigs in the country in an effort to fight swine flu - although no cases have been reported in the country."
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zzrider
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,29 Apr 2009 09.28.41] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8024611.stm

"Egypt, for its part, began a mass slaughter of all 300,000 pigs in the country in an effort to fight swine flu - although no cases have been reported in the country."

LMAO, I'm going to go make fun of my Egyptian friend for this.
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Greece (TheOne)
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What use will that be? The virus is now spread human to human, would make little to no difference...? Makes about as much sense as mass slaughtering the whole human population. Swine flu will still exist and be transmitted human to human.
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zzJJ
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Haha, wow. It's not very serious of a threat right now. But if we all have this "it'll never happen to me" state of mind, we are just being plain ignorant. Just because your rich doesn't mean your immune from Swine Flu
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zzdoncampos
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That is a serious over reaction by the Egyptians. They might as well seal themselves off from the rest of the world if they are going to start slaughtering pigs.

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Schwerpunkt
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It might not be a solely health-related reaction. Bear in mind that Egypt's population is Muslim, and that pretty much only Egypt's Christians and Jews would raise pigs in the first place.
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zzgoodie
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,29 Apr 2009 11.56.42] It might not be a solely health-related reaction. Bear in mind that Egypt's population is Muslim, and that pretty much only Egypt's Christians and Jews would raise pigs in the first place.

It's against their religion to eat the product of swine in Judaism, so I'd be skeptical that a Jew was raising pigs. Subsequently, that leaves the Christians.
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Pfft. Raise 'em and sell 'em to the Christians! Isn't that what a global conspiracy is about?
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zzCSJ
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Congo [Rommel
 
,28 Apr 2009 20.07.05] Also, What the stupid news and WHO does not tell you is that the people that died in Mexico had other pre-existing conditions that were deadly.

I'm sorry, but that's completely inaccurate. One of the worst aspects of the disease is that, unlike NORMAL flus, which normally strike the young, sick, and elderly the hardest, this is killing mostly healthy adults. That's something rarely seen outside of pandemic flus that bring death tolls to the millions. That's why this is such a big deal.

Now, there IS supposition of a possible co-infection to explain some of the pathology, but that is NOT a "preexisting deadly condition." If it was, they wouldn't be healthy adults. What we'd be talking about here is probably some virus or bacteria that causes little or no symptoms on its own, but combines with the flu to make things worse. Or possibly something that is incapable of infecting on its own, but is given an opportunity by the influenza's weakening of the immune system. In both cases, there is no threat of death without the flu. On the other hand, it could be a host of other things, from dietary differences to living conditions to a simple genetic predisposition.
And conversely, there is supposition of cytokene storm being what's causing the deaths, also based on the known pathology of the disease. If this is true, it is extraordinarily bad. That's what made the Spanish Influenza and H5N1 so deadly.


Now yes, historically the developing world will foot the brunt of the death toll, but that's not the biggest issue. Even in the western world like Europe and the US, there could be massive healthcare expenditures (mostly from the government) and massive productivity losses, and this is certainly not a good time for that. Influenza doesn't have to kill people to kill the community.

For the record, the Spanish Influenza is the only recorded flu pandemic to have better than a 0.5% mortality rate.
Also for the record, influenza, like AIDS, is extremely unlikely to kill directly. Almost all deaths result from a secondary infection, usually Pneumonia. The recent Avian Influenza and historical Spanish Influenza are rare exceptions in that they did kill directly, but even those usually killed by leaving the victim open to secondary infection.


Finally. Avian Influenza, despite the screaming of detractors, is neither a hoax nor a bygone threat. H5N1 is still out there, still infecting and killing humans, and still mutating. It's incredibly ignorant and stupid to dismiss it when the focus is on what CAN happen, more so than what IS HAPPENING. And comparing it to this outbreak is ludicrous. We're already seeing a genuine epidemic, bordering on pandemic, within a matter of days. It's too late to claim this will "go the way of Avian Influenza." It was too late for that comparison half a week ago.
The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends. I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time. And what do you get at the end of it? A death. I think the life cycle is all backwards:
You should die first; get it out of the way. Then you live in an old age home. You get kicked out when you're too young, you get a gold watch, you go to work. You work forty years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, you get ready for high school. You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb, You spend your last nine months floating...Then you finish off as an orgasm. - George Carlin
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zzgoodie
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Btw, it went up to 5.
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Amzi
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Some poeple are freaking out because of someone died in the U.S, but it was first off...a 26 month old and second off, an illegal immgrint who contracted it in Mexico and came to the States looking for help so really, no American has died yet unless someone did while I was at school.
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zzdoncampos
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That's what I was told from people who are actually there.
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zzCSJ
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UPDATE
Rommel's theory COMPLETELY disproved.

Secondary and co-infection have been ruled out.
Health care quality has been ruled out (sorry universal health care nuts).
Pollution and altitude have been ruled out.
Medicine-related complications have been ruled out.

So, the reason for the greater severity in Mexico is none of the above. 80% of the comments in this thread have just taken a major blow :P


Possibilities remaining include excessive unreported infections (only severe ones are counted) and possibly genetic predisposition. The former is probably the most likely right now.

It remains to be seen how bad this will get - most non-Mexican cases are still relatively mild.
The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends. I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time. And what do you get at the end of it? A death. I think the life cycle is all backwards:
You should die first; get it out of the way. Then you live in an old age home. You get kicked out when you're too young, you get a gold watch, you go to work. You work forty years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, you get ready for high school. You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb, You spend your last nine months floating...Then you finish off as an orgasm. - George Carlin
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zzdoncampos
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There is a Mexican email circulating that supposedly:

Obama and Calderon had 2 closed door meetings during the G20 on the 16th and 17th. When Calderon returned to Mexico City he held several closed door meetings with the Health Czar and other health officials. Then on the 23rd news broke.

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Dax
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Iraq [Amzi
 
,29 Apr 2009 17.23.38] Some poeple are freaking out because of someone died in the U.S, but it was first off...a 26 month old and second off, an illegal immgrint who contracted it in Mexico and came to the States looking for help so really, no American has died yet unless someone did while I was at school.

From the news article I read, it was a 26-month old Mexican who was in Texas visiting family.
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Mortality rate is still low. And I still am not going to go around wearing a mask or anything.
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Dax
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Haven't the number of confirmed cases that were definitely due to swine flu not even cracked ten?
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They're higher than ten.
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Dax
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From the latest BBC news report I read, There have been over 150 deaths with less than 10 of them definitely due to swine flu.
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zzCSJ
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The last report I saw indicated checking 33 victims to ascertain the reasoning behind the higher mortality rates and more severe infections in Mexico.

To have checked 33 of them, there had to have been 33 confirmed dead from it.
The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends. I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time. And what do you get at the end of it? A death. I think the life cycle is all backwards:
You should die first; get it out of the way. Then you live in an old age home. You get kicked out when you're too young, you get a gold watch, you go to work. You work forty years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, you get ready for high school. You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb, You spend your last nine months floating...Then you finish off as an orgasm. - George Carlin
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