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| North Korea tests another nuke...; ? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 25 2009, 02:31 AM (1,385 Views) | |
| Dax | May 26 2009, 07:42 PM Post #41 |
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Il Duce
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No, nuclear war might not necessarily happen, but is that a chance you're willing to take? Because I'm not, and I'm under the assumption that most world leaders also aren't, or else North Korea would be a parking lot at the moment. |
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[align=center]"The only problem is, we don’t often actually care about people’s quality of life in 21c." -- JCU We are all citizens of the planet Il Duce, starring as . . . ![]() 21C Best Foreign Affairs RPer 2009, 2011, 2012 Best Overall 2009, 2012 Administrator to end all administrators.[/align] | |
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| United States [Sel] | May 26 2009, 07:57 PM Post #42 |
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The Creator
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It's not going to happen. North Korea's five nukes vs. the world's 10000+? Nuclear war alright. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| Dax | May 26 2009, 07:59 PM Post #43 |
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Il Duce
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North Korea launches one and we have nuclear war. Point blank. Not to mention who would fire back. |
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[align=center]"The only problem is, we don’t often actually care about people’s quality of life in 21c." -- JCU We are all citizens of the planet Il Duce, starring as . . . ![]() 21C Best Foreign Affairs RPer 2009, 2011, 2012 Best Overall 2009, 2012 Administrator to end all administrators.[/align] | |
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| United States [Sel] | May 26 2009, 08:28 PM Post #44 |
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The Creator
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That's like saying someone bombs someone and it instantly becomes war. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| zzskylar | May 26 2009, 09:52 PM Post #45 |
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Lieutenant
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PRIME EXAMPLE |
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| United States [Sel] | May 26 2009, 10:43 PM Post #46 |
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The Creator
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drops one bomb* |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| zzBugs | May 26 2009, 11:00 PM Post #47 |
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Generalissimus of the Soviet Union
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I don't think it would end up in full scale war, should North Korea launch a nuke...at probably any of its neighbors. The thing with Korea, is they seem to be wasting time just trying to set one off. They aren't doing what Iran is doing, and just making nuclear material, to a fuller extent. We're not talking about nuclear holocaust here, if North Korea, launched even maybe ten missiles at say Japan or Russia, except for those who actually end up in it. And probably the fallout afterward. (Note: The smoking gun that helped determine that North Korea did this most recent one, was somethin to do with xenon that ended up in Canadas air). Anyhow. North Korea wouldn't have the same capability as Russia at returning fire to the US. Unless North Korea plans to ship some of its nukes to some distant island, close to America. And unless North Korea somehow makes it look like America nuked Russia or China, there is no way it'd be full out nuke war. Because from what is known, and probably assumed to be unknown, NK has no real producing capability. But at the same time, one bomb that looks like America...COULD start a war. |
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| zzBugs | May 26 2009, 11:01 PM Post #48 |
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The difference being, America figured it wasn't that big a deal, because Georgia can't fire nukes, and the Russians didn't need to. Might as well be the "bigger person" |
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| zzskylar | May 26 2009, 11:29 PM Post #49 |
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PRIME EXAMPLE *this bomb being on a micro scale |
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| Greece (TheOne) | May 27 2009, 12:02 AM Post #50 |
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I think some of you are forgetting the most important thing..does North Korea actually have the capability to launch a nuclear armed missile? Yes, they have the missiles that put it's neighbours in range. But are they capable of putting together a warhead, loading it onto the missile, and having that missile aim properly? It's not as simple as bolting a few things here and there. And as for where the money is coming from, anyone ever thought that China might be financing them in some way? I guess the drug trade for them is pretty big though, they even sent a freighter loaded with drugs(cocaine or ecstasy I think) to Australia once that was intercepted and sunk by the RAAF. |
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| zzgoodie | May 27 2009, 12:48 AM Post #51 |
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Hubris and I suspect it may come down to war. |
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| United States [Sel] | May 27 2009, 01:41 AM Post #52 |
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The Creator
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China has a motive to finance them to keep the US occupied, but it also runs the risk of Japan re-militarizing and going nuclear and Korea going nuclear. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| United States [Sel] | May 27 2009, 04:17 AM Post #53 |
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The Creator
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http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/05...is-north-korea/
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| Royis | May 27 2009, 08:02 AM Post #54 |
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What nation has the second largest special ops force in the world? A. Russia B. China C. North Korea D. Great Britain. Answer- North Korea |
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| zzgoodie | May 27 2009, 09:59 AM Post #55 |
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And it's designed entirely to infiltrate the South's defenses and disrupt normal lines of combat, supply, communication... |
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| Mexico (Hubris) | May 27 2009, 12:04 PM Post #56 |
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Yes, NK's "Special Ops" aren't the same as Western or even Chinese Special Ops. They're all trained for the total manipulation and destruction of mostly the following - Communication Lines (Including Internet) Supply Capability Enemy Civilian Morale The thing that's funny is so many people disagreed with me before that a War in our current state of affairs would start off with our asses being handed to us there, and I still believe it'll happen like that. Asses whooped, we find a holding ground, but start to wear down due to numbers game. (Not enough manpower on our side, as it's all being used elsewhere). So, who knows - but yay... FINALLY.. North Korea grew balls. (That, or found the perfect US President to fuck with). |
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| United States [Sel] | May 27 2009, 02:07 PM Post #57 |
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The Creator
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Evil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_Korean_nuclear_test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_Korean_missile_test |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| Russia (X) | May 27 2009, 04:35 PM Post #58 |
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No nuclear war, if North Korea employed the nuclear option. Firstly, you can't have a nuclear war without combatants, and the North has no ally with an arsenal. Secondly, it makes no sense to retaliate against North Korea with Nuclear arms. Since the goal of a war against the DPRK would be to eliminate the highly unfavorable political regime, I would think that leaders would not employ nuclear retaliation. In fact, it's not even an option. The only acceptable North Korean targets are major cities (Countervalue), and that means the ROK and PRC get fallout, plus you give North Korea a Just Cause for a guerrilla war against anyone the regime pleases (assuming it survived the strike). Kim is a krazy. With a "k." Right now, if I was one of Obama's military advisers, I'd put a limited military option in the cards. Secondly, hardball diplomacy to eliminate the North Korean economy to the fullest. *"The no money no nukes suggestion:" I think it's BS that North Korea can't maintain it's NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) Arsenal bleeding money. Hell, I think they can keep up their conventional forces too, even with the "Plan B." You can force people to work and extract resources at gunpoint. The DPRK has those guns. That's a rather extreme example but still, I think North Korea maintains the resources to at least slow the decay of their military. However, by 2020 everything in the DPRK's military will be vastly reduced in effectiveness even from today assuming existing plans from the military powers are carried out. |
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[align=center] Russia Today Ministry of Foreign Affairs Armed Forces of Russia Research Rosoboronexport [/align]
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| Royis | May 27 2009, 04:51 PM Post #59 |
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We are doomed if we invade North Korea, because of one reason-
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| zzFarrfin | May 27 2009, 05:36 PM Post #60 |
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We're screwed! X: Good points, but an economy in a terminal downward spiral will mean that the regime will find it increasingly difficult to hold on to power. There's a point at which the regime will find it impossible to survive. Remember, if 10% of your population is in your military then the chances are they know someone who was shipped off to a labour camp. The more people you force to work, the more it saps morale and undermines support for the regime from the organisation on which it depends for holding on to power: the army. Without support from the Army, Kim Jong Il couldn't hold on to power. He needs to keep them on side. There are rumours floating around about the nuke/missile tests being part of a leadership struggle in light of Kim's ailing health. The military chiefs will play a large part in the succession, and whoever takes over will require their support. |
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| zzskylar | May 27 2009, 08:30 PM Post #61 |
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You know, that's kinda interesting. But my personal take on this is that North Korea doesn't really care what the rest of the world thinks. Guys, let's think about the world of Nineteen Eighty-four for a little bit. It was remarked that perhaps there was no war going on at all, but rather the State was self-inflicting damages to further enslave its population. Similarly, isn't it somewhat interesting that this posturing by the North Korean government is not being followed up by any serious military buildups internationally, other than the rebooting of its nuclear programme? The talk of the armistice being null and void or whatever jargon is just an act. The North isn't going to invade the South. With that in mind, what if North Korea is not trying to guard from international pressures but instead internal pressures [let's face it, the leader isn't getting any healthier] in an attempt to maintain control? I just think it's interesting that we speak of Orwellian states only existing in a dystopia or far-fetched reality, when in fact it's been in North Korea this whole time. |
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| zznosoria | May 27 2009, 09:18 PM Post #62 |
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Kim Jong-Il is a fuckin' poser, North Korea has an army of starvin' peasants and their economy is abysmal. Put simply Kim Jong-Il is a enormous piece of shit layin' upon the poor people and killin'em with his shitiness. He's just flexin' what little muscle he has to get the other nations of the world to pay attention to him, like a little kid or somethin'. |
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Leader: Senior General Than Shwe GDP: $27.182 billion Organizations: UN Conflicts: -- Strained Relations: -- | |
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| Greece (TheOne) | May 27 2009, 09:43 PM Post #63 |
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China. I'd say even the Russians to an extent. |
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| J.B. Hemlock | May 27 2009, 11:40 PM Post #64 |
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I think you're spot on, here. There has been a recent conventional military buildup in the North, but I suspect a bunch of the new soldiers (the special forces soldiers, especially) are intended more for domestic policing than anything else. |
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| United States [Sel] | May 28 2009, 01:16 AM Post #65 |
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The Creator
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Whoever keeps putting this in Debate Hall, it isn't a debate. It may have a few elements of debate, but there's no reason to put it there IMO. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| United States [Sel] | May 28 2009, 01:20 AM Post #66 |
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The Creator
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It's a brilliant almost perfect comparison. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| Australia (LK) | May 28 2009, 03:09 AM Post #67 |
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NORTH Korea has abandoned the truce that ended the Korean War and warned it could launch a military attack on the South, two days after testing an atomic bomb for the second time. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25549902-401,00.html |
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| Royis | May 28 2009, 08:17 AM Post #68 |
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WAR!!! |
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| Recon | May 28 2009, 08:20 AM Post #69 |
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A good article in the Times. Kind of reminds me of my plan to invade North Korea as Japan. Espically when they talk about appointing his son as a successor. North Korea's nuclear message to Kim Jong Il's own hardliners This was a show of weakness, not of strength When a man walks down the street firing a gun over your head, it is difficult not take it personally. When a dictator with a million-strong army and a well documented dislike for the “imperialist aggressors” of the West, lets off a nuclear weapon, it feels much the same. This sentiment informed foreign reaction to North Korea's nuclear test yesterday, from Washington to Tokyo to Helsinki: how dare he do this to us? “North Korea's attempts to develop nuclear weapons, as well as its ballistic missile programme, constitute a threat to international peace and security,” President Obama said. But there is another way of thinking about North Korea and its dictator, Kim Jong Il, just as there is about the armed loser who shoots up the neighbourhood. It's not about us at all - it's about him. The popular view of Mr Kim, as a megalomaniac poised to rain fiery death on all who displease him, is worse than a misunderstanding - it plays into his hands. Everything he does, all his threats and bluster, his merciless oppression of his own people, and the elaborately ludicrous personality cult around him, springs not from strength, but from profound and irremediable weakness. Mr Kim leads the last Stalinist dictatorship in the world. He makes the Cubans and Vietnamese look like thrusting innovators. Politically, he has been cut off by the tide and is sitting on a sandbank without a life jacket, watching the waves rise. Even the best-equipped spies cannot see the workings of North Korea's internal politics, but there are good reasons for believing that the 67-year old Mr Kim is more than usually vulnerable at present. We know with some certainty that he was gravely ill last summer, with something like a stroke. Now there are signs that he is preparing one of his three sons to succeed him. Hereditary successions in oppressive monarchies are often moments of uncertainty, when courtiers compete to be more on-message, and when the old king feels most susceptible and afraid. Yesterday's test may have been a calculated attempt to raise the stakes in negotiations with the new US Administration - or it may have been Mr Kim's effort to win favour with his own military hardliners, the only people who can guarantee his family's hold on power. Confrontation of the kind in which North Korea specialises is the last refuge of the politically bankrupt - but it is a failure of imagination to to award Mr Kim the domestic prestige that he seeks. Any man with a gun is dangerous, but he is easier to deal with if his weakness is recognised and not mistaken for strength. Richard Lloyd Parry is Asia editor _ Could that loud bang be North Korea saying 'nice to meet you, President Obama'? Churchill called Stalin’s Russia “a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma”. Kim Jong Il’s North Korea is much the same, minus the transparency. Nominally the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is ruled by the Workers’ Party of Korea. Yet the party’s Central Committee seems not to have met in the 15 years since the “Great Leader”, Kim Il Sung, died in 1994. The Politburo is even more atrophied — an ever-shrinking group of gerontocrats. So who’s in charge? Though he is increasingly beholden to the military, the answer is: Kim Jong Il. A micromanager and exponent of the midnight phone call, the “Dear Leader” has hitherto ruled mainly via a kitchen cabinet of cronies. Foremost is his brother-in-law Jang Song Taek, who, having returned from a brief stay in the wilderness, is now constantly at Mr Kim’s side. There is a Cabinet, headed by Kim Yong Il (no relation) and which cuts little ice. Formal and real rank may diverge. Thus the Foreign Minister, Pak Ui Chun, is mainly a meeter-and-greeter. The real power rests with his nominal deputy, Kang Sok Ju — whom Christopher Hill, the energetic former US pointman on North Korea, apparently never met. Mere civilians have no say over what really matters: the Korean People’s Army, the world’s fifth-largest. Above the Cabinet is the National Defence Commission, the country’s top executive body. Last month North Korea’s rubber-stamp parliament — it meets for only one day a year — saw the National Defence Commission enlarged. Mr Jang is among the new members, most of whom are hardline generals — and appear to be calling the shots at the moment. All this looks an effort, not before time, to institutionalise power in case Mr Kim — who is back after last year’s illness, but not looking at all well, — again becomes incapacitated, perhaps fatally. Rather than being a collective leadership, the National Defence Commission will hold the fort while delicate manoeuvres continue to choose an heir. Successions are the Achilles’ heel of tyrannies. The Dear Leader’s complex marital history makes it risky to choose a dauphin, lest this prompts rivals to plot. Yet not to choose one is riskier still. North Korea’s current hyper-militancy, even by its own standards, may be frantic barking to keep the world at bay at a vulnerable time while a successor is picked. If we satisfy ourselves with passing toothless but necessary UN resolutions, we may get more sense from Pyongyang once the dust has settled. Or perhaps the hawks really mean it. But spitting at everyone is no real long-term policy, especially for a failed state that needs aid to avert the threat of famine. Some claim all this banging is North Korea’s crude way of knocking on our door. I wonder. If reason prevails at all there, surely they see that, with President Obama, the door is open. Other US foes, such as Cuba, are grasping the chance. If North Korea is not, one fears that bellicosity is by now so hardwired into the leadership’s thinking that it cannot conceive, or trust, any other way. Some can. Kim Jong Il’s eldest son, Kim Jong Nam, whose unprepossessing looks belie a sharp mind, has been sounding oddly off-message of late, telling the Japanese press that he understands Tokyo’s security concerns over April’s big rocket. In quasi-exile in Macau, Kim Jong Nam looks out of the running as a successor. Or is he repositioning himself as head of the sensible party? If and when China finally loses patience with the nest of vipers it has nurtured for too long in North Korea, Kim Jong Nam might just be the man to whom they turn. Aidan Foster-Carter is Honorary Senior Research Fellow in sociology and modern Korea, University of Leeds |
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| zzLyly | May 28 2009, 10:06 AM Post #70 |
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That's about what I've always thought, but I've never thought of that comparison to 1984. |
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| zzd | May 28 2009, 02:51 PM Post #71 |
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North Korea can afford this because of trade deals it has with foreign nations that sell now get the cash later. In any case I know how to stop North Korea we send in the A team.XD |
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| Russia (X) | May 28 2009, 06:57 PM Post #72 |
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China wouldn't shed any radioactive tears over North Korean failure, TheOne. It's nice for the PRC to have a buffer state, but, honestly, what's stopping China from just declaring the DPRK a farce and setting up a less troublesome one? Nuking anyone over the odd kid in the corner isn't smart, no matter what America did the odd kid. Ditto on Russia, only Russia sees even less geopolitical advantage to North Korea's existence (Russia can set into motion other distractions to the USA and NATO with ease). |
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[align=center] Russia Today Ministry of Foreign Affairs Armed Forces of Russia Research Rosoboronexport [/align]
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| United States [Sel] | May 28 2009, 09:24 PM Post #73 |
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The Creator
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Perhaps this is Obama's "6 month test" |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| J.B. Hemlock | May 29 2009, 03:16 PM Post #74 |
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Speaking of North Korea, has anyone seen ours? It's been a couple of weeks since the last post I recall seeing. I miss my foil and raison d'etre! |
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| United States [Sel] | May 29 2009, 03:46 PM Post #75 |
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The Creator
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And to think we kicked my friend out of North Korea. |
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[align=center]United States of Trump President DONALD J TRUMP Vice President MIKE PENCE Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align] | |
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| zzskylar | May 29 2009, 04:08 PM Post #76 |
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Speaking of missing people, what ever happened to Kyang? |
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| Recon | May 29 2009, 04:32 PM Post #77 |
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He's running China for real now I think.
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[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic) Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda) Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.) GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.) Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO). Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None [/align]
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| Recon | May 29 2009, 04:33 PM Post #78 |
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Yep. If only Sels Friends could do everything.... |
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[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic) Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda) Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.) GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.) Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO). Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None [/align]
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| J.B. Hemlock | May 29 2009, 05:00 PM Post #79 |
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Well, you could always just give North Korea to me to run. (Hee-hee-hee!) I'd be fair! It'd be kind of like Stok with China and Taiwan... (Hee-hee-hee!) |
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| Dax | May 29 2009, 06:31 PM Post #80 |
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Il Duce
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Well, he didn't have a much better track record. |
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[align=center]"The only problem is, we don’t often actually care about people’s quality of life in 21c." -- JCU We are all citizens of the planet Il Duce, starring as . . . ![]() 21C Best Foreign Affairs RPer 2009, 2011, 2012 Best Overall 2009, 2012 Administrator to end all administrators.[/align] | |
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