Welcome to 21c. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Gordon Brown's position on a knife edge
Topic Started: Jun 3 2009, 02:51 PM (1,075 Views)
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
"Dear Gordon

I believe the achievements of the Labour Government to date have been monumental and you have played an immense part in the creation of those achievements.

However, I am extremely disappointed at your failure to have an inclusive Government.

You have a two tier Government. Your inner circle and then the remainder of Cabinet.

I have the greatest respect for the women who have served as full members of Cabinet and for those who attend as and when required.
However, few are allowed into your inner circle.

Several of the women attending Cabinet – myself included – have been treated by you as little more than female window dressing.

I am not willing to attend Cabinet in a peripheral capacity any longer.
In my current role, you advised that I would attend Cabinet when Europe was on the agenda. I have only been invited once since October and not to a single political Cabinet – not even the one held a few weeks before the European elections.

Having worked hard during this campaign, I would not have been party to any plan to undermine you or the Labour Party in the run up to 4 June.
So I was extremely angry and disappointed to see newspapers briefed with invented stories of my involvement in a "Pugin Room plot".

Time and time again I have stepped before the cameras to sincerely defend your reputation in the interests of the Labour Party and the Government as a whole. I am a natural party loyalist. Yet you have strained every sinew of that loyalty.

It has been apparent for some time that you do not see me playing a more influential role in the Government. Therefore, I have respectfully declined your offer to continue in the Government as Minister for Europe attending Cabinet.

I served six years as a backbencher and, therefore, I am not unhappy to be able to devote myself to promoting my constituency's interests and to support the Labour Government from the backbenches.

This is a personal decision, which I have not discussed with colleagues.

Yours

Rt Hon Caroline Flint MP"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...er-in-full.html
[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzskylar
Member Avatar
Lieutenant
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hmmm. I love it that Flint chose to address the PM as "Gordon" rather than "Mr Brown" or anything else. It seems that the barbwire is disappearing around 10 Bunker Street.
I'm amused easily by childish things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzcrackzilla
Member Avatar
Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
What exactly did Gordon do to make himself so unpopular? Last I remember he was fairly popular.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Taiwan [Crackzilla
 
,06 Jun 2009 03.40.45]What exactly did Gordon do to make himself so unpopular? Last I remember he was fairly popular.

After the G20 Summit in April he was popular, then he had the Emails scandal (His Senior Aide sending Emails trying to smear the Tories), General stupidity and trying to go against the public on Ghurkhas. The Expenses Scandal and Brown not taking the lead on reforms. Him Condemning Heazel Blears for dodging capital gains tax but allowing Purnell and Hoon other ministers off with no punishment.

Finally my personal favourite. He had his aides speaking to the press all week, “Darling is finished” (Chancellor Alasdair Darling) and now after his authority has been weakened Darling is still in his job. Then even better Brown mentioned his father had taught him never to lie and at yesterdays press conferences he would be “Candid” so the Press asked him. Where you planning to Fire Alasdir Darling? His “Truthful answer” No.

That tells you everything you need to know about Brown.

Brown is an utter dick. Caroline Flint now has made the charge Brown only keeps Women in the Cabinet because they are women and now it seems Lord Mandelson, Chancellor Darling, Foreign Minister David Miliband and Home Secretary Alan Johnson are too powerful to be fired by Brown. They are now untouchable.
[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzLyly
Member Avatar
Senior Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Yeah, it really seems that certain cabinet members can basically run the show themselves and shuffle the cabinet as they see fit.
[align=center]Posted Image
South Korea - the original 51st state!
News | Factbook | Foreign Relations[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzcrackzilla
Member Avatar
Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Does it really surprise you that he'd have to keep some diversity in there just to keep people from screaming? It seems to me that alot of European countries have enforced diversity - like affirmative action, but in politics, and probably even other aspects of life.

To me, it's not such a big deal. If he doesn't have any, or only a few women, people would cry about it. I'm not certain, but it looks like he appointed one to a rather unimportant ministry position, so it wouldn't really hamper him too much.

Of course, I'm an American, and we're used to lies and empty moves to appease people...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Taiwan [Crackzilla
 
,06 Jun 2009 14.04.24]Does it really surprise you that he'd have to keep some diversity in there just to keep people from screaming? It seems to me that alot of European countries have enforced diversity - like affirmative action, but in politics, and probably even other aspects of life.

To me, it's not such a big deal. If he doesn't have any, or only a few women, people would cry about it. I'm not certain, but it looks like he appointed one to a rather unimportant ministry position, so it wouldn't really hamper him too much.

Of course, I'm an American, and we're used to lies and empty moves to appease people...

In the UK we don’t have that. However there has been massive pressure to get more Asian and Black MPs. Honestly it pisses me off no end. Like local Labour or Conservative parties would ignore that possibility in majority minority areas. It’s just all about trying to look better by picking more. If an Asian or Afro- Caribbean person is the best person for the job, full steam ahead but lets not just pick people for the sake of it!

On the matter of Women, Blair in 1997 had a photo op which was called “Blair’s babes” so as of now we have 127 Female Mps out of 646 in total. Now I don’t really see the difference between a male or female MP. They will both steal from the tax payer ;)

TBH I think they will increase with every election, if local parties are discriminating against women then the national party should tell them to STFU. But I am all for picking the best person male or female. Quotas are the wrong way to go. They want to have quotas on banks etc saying “Women would never have caused this financial crisis.” I don’t know if that is true however quotas just stop the best person getting the job, in a free and fair system that should be the only option.

Affirmative action IMO causes anger. Have you ever owned a slave? Nope Nor would anyone here want to. Neither do they think that people are worth less because of their gender, sexual orientation, age or ethnicity (I hope). I just don’t think punishing people now for the sins of people hundreds of years ago (In some places like 40). Is the right way to go. And that also has the problem if a person gets a job theres always "We all know why she got it" etc. It takes away from the skills they have.

I am saying that like the world has a perfect system, which only allows the best person to be picked. If you went for a job could you not get it just because of your race or gender?

[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Schwerpunkt
Dalek Caan
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
This topic, and topics like it, always amuse me. People rave about how one group of people is inherently better at something than another (see: that quote in Recon's post), while neglecting to mention or indeed refusing to realize that stereotypes, whether 'positive' or 'negative,' are bad. Nothing makes women inherently less or more qualified than men to do these jobs. Indeed, the only real restriction on women as far as political work goes is the whole pregnancy thing, but most elected officials are too old for that to even matter. Thatcher was 54 when she became PM, Merkel was 51 when she became Chancellor, Patil was 73 when sworn in as President, Ching-ling was 75... none of those are exactly child bearing ages, so that's really a non-issue anyway.

As for the whole 'best qualified' thing, I totally agree. There's no reason x politician should be given the position or not given the position because that politician is female, a minority, has a certain hair color, or what-have-you. If Bob, the stereotypical old white guy, is a better politician than Michele, the clearly non-stereotypical young black girl, there's no reason he shouldn't get the job.

Germany's Green Party, for instance, is chaired by a woman (one that is larger than most female politicians to boot) and a Turk. The Free Democratic Party is chaired by an openly homosexual man (who was my President last game, if anyone recalls). On the other hand, the CSU's Horst Seehofer is your typical white guy. If memory serves, Merkel's cabinet is fairly well divided: 7 women, 9 men. Naturally, all of them are white, but that's the demographics. It was 6/10, though, so eh.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
United States [Sel]
Member Avatar
The Creator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
In Brown's remarks, he referred to "Obama Beach," then corrected himself to "Omaha Beach" a few words later, after a stir in the crowd.

The guy is such a n00b. It's almost sad. Maybe it was all Tony's plot to take any harsh light off of his term by having a buffoon succeed him.
[align=center]United States of Trump
President DONALD J TRUMP
Vice President MIKE PENCE
Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzFarrfin
Member Avatar
Senior Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Israel [Sel Appa
 
,07 Jun 2009 05.22.45] The guy is such a n00b. It's almost sad. Maybe it was all Tony's plot to take any harsh light off of his term by having a buffoon succeed him.

When he left office in 2007, he must've been annoyed that he wasn't allowed to carry on and serve most of the rest of the third term for the Labour Party. Now he must be so glad that he got out when he did. A blessing in disguise :P
Posted Image
Foreign Ministry | Defence Ministry | News
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzskylar
Member Avatar
Lieutenant
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
United States [Recon
 
,06 Jun 2009 18.47.57]
Taiwan [Crackzilla
 
,06 Jun 2009 14.04.24]
Of course, I'm an American, and we're used to lies and empty moves to appease people...

Affirmative action IMO causes anger. Have you ever owned a slave? Nope Nor would anyone here want to. Neither do they think that people are worth less because of their gender, sexual orientation, age or ethnicity (I hope). I just don’t think punishing people now for the sins of people hundreds of years ago (In some places like 40) Is the right way to go. And that also has the problem if a person gets a job theres always "We all know why she got it" etc. It takes away from the skills they have.

+2

Couldn't state either points better.
But also, Recon... about that whole slave thing? Don't put it past Rommel. :P
I'm amused easily by childish things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It seems Labour has been murdered in Wales, a true stronghold. Brown could be gone sooner rather then later.
[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzskylar
Member Avatar
Lieutenant
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
seriously. I think it's more surprising that the BNP gained two seats... Oh, and what the hell is the UKIP, and how are they suddenly the UK's second party?

Request split thread for discussion on EU elections...
I'm amused easily by childish things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzmorty
Member Avatar
Senior Sergeant
[ *  *  *  * ]
Kyrgyzstan [Skylar
 
,08 Jun 2009 16.44.53] Oh, and what the hell is the UKIP, and how are they suddenly the UK's second party?

UKIP is made of concentrated awesome.

They are the second party because Labour, conversely, is made of concentrated fail.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Brown survives. :(
[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzcrackzilla
Member Avatar
Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Did the BNP get seats anywhere? I remember reading something that said they might get one.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dax
Member Avatar
Il Duce
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
They got one in the British elections and two in the European Parliament, I believe; the most they've ever gotten in any election.

Scary.
[align=center]"The only problem is, we don’t often actually care about people’s quality of life in 21c." -- JCU
We are all citizens of the planet

Il Duce, starring as . . .

Posted Image

21C Best Foreign Affairs RPer 2009, 2011, 2012
Best Overall 2009, 2012

Administrator to end all administrators.
[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzmorty
Member Avatar
Senior Sergeant
[ *  *  *  * ]
I think Daniel Hannan was right about this - people went out and did what the politicians told them not to do as a protest.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Recon
Member Avatar
The Village Kvetch
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
United States [Dax
 
,08 Jun 2009 19.46.03] They got one in the British elections and two in the European Parliament, I believe; the most they've ever gotten in any election.

Scary.

Their leader was elected in my district! Fucking hell, the North West will be blamed for all his shit forever. Regardless of the fact the BNP actually got less votes then in the last election... :angry:
[align=center]Head of State (President): Moncef Marzouki (Congress for the Republic)
Head of Government (Prime Minister): Hamadi Jebali (Ennahda)
Population: 10.6 Million (2012 est.)
GDP (Real): $44bn (2012 est.)
Organizations: Arab League (AL), Arab Maghreb Union (AMU), African Union (AU), International Criminal Court (ICC), International Monetary Fund (IMF,) Non Aligned Movement (NAM), United Nations (UN) & World Trade Organisation (WTO).
Strained Relations/War: Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel /None

Posted Image [/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzskylar
Member Avatar
Lieutenant
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Morty: LOL for irony!
Recon: Don't worry... Cameron and even Clegg will shoot Brown down tomorrow in PMQs.
I'm amused easily by childish things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzLyly
Member Avatar
Senior Warrant Officer
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Israel [Sel Appa
 
,06 Jun 2009 22.22.45] In Brown's remarks, he referred to "Obama Beach," then corrected himself to "Omaha Beach" a few words later, after a stir in the crowd.

The guy is such a n00b. It's almost sad. Maybe it was all Tony's plot to take any harsh light off of his term by having a buffoon succeed him.

Freudian slip, man. Such mistakes are actually pretty common amongst world leaders, as much as you'd think otherwise. It's just because they have so much more on their mind that their present situation.
[align=center]Posted Image
South Korea - the original 51st state!
News | Factbook | Foreign Relations[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zzskylar
Member Avatar
Lieutenant
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Palestinian Authority [Lyly
 
,09 Jun 2009 16.19.55]
Israel [Sel Appa
 
,06 Jun 2009 22.22.45] In Brown's remarks, he referred to "Obama Beach," then corrected himself to "Omaha Beach" a few words later, after a stir in the crowd.

The guy is such a n00b. It's almost sad. Maybe it was all Tony's plot to take any harsh light off of his term by having a buffoon succeed him.

Freudian slip, man. Such mistakes are actually pretty common amongst world leaders, as much as you'd think otherwise. It's just because they have so much more on their mind that their present situation.

Example 1:
Posted Image
I'm amused easily by childish things.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
United States [Sel]
Member Avatar
The Creator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Joe Biden is a Freudian slip.
[align=center]United States of Trump
President DONALD J TRUMP
Vice President MIKE PENCE
Attorney General JEFF SESSIONS[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Mess Hall · Next Topic »
Add Reply