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A Public Service Announcement; from 21c's very own "Resident Resident"
Topic Started: Jun 16 2009, 06:59 PM (898 Views)
zzmaikeru
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Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.10

Haha I remember back on 21C 1.0 where I was pretty much a socialist and got outrageously leftist scores on this.
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Royis
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Communist Party should press charges against the Republicans. Why?

The Communists were red first. They stealing their thunder.
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United States [Sel]
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Saudi Arabia [Maikeru
 
,17 Jun 2009 22.12.45]
Pakistan [X
 
,17 Jun 2009 20.20.53] As usual, -9.9, -9.9 .
You can't be more anti-fascism then that. You can't be more anti-state than that either. However, I actually sympathize a bit with the economic right, because I think that Keynesian economics about as  crazy as trickle-down, as they're both authoritarian (fail) economic philosophies. I'd prefer a horizontalist economic system but the Political Compass doesn't make that distinction.

I don't really oppose the state on moral grounds though, mostly just logical ones ;)

Sorry, but there's no logical reason to oppose the state. The state is necessary for a society to survive and advance, or some kind of centralized authority, at least. A society can not legitimately survive on its own without a government, authority, or hierarchy of some sort. The flaws in human nature prevent that from being feasible.

My results coming soon.

You should talk to Roach Busters's pals...
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Mexico (Hubris)
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I'm painfully slow at these -

I think I'm going to do Religion as our next poll.
This time it should please Sel as it won't be multiple choice. :]

Also!

I don't know if I should generalize them into groups to make a shorter poll, or just list out all the major ones I can think of.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Oh, and I will tack results in this thread.. I guess we could close out the Age one.. ?
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United States [Sel]
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Atheist
Catholic
Protestant
Other Christian
Jew
Muslim
Hindu
Buddhist
Agnostic
Other

Multi choice might make sense because I would put Jew and atheist, but either way works. Christianity really needs to be separated into three groups unfortunately
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zzLyly
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,19 Jun 2009 13.31.47] Atheist
Catholic
Protestant
Other Christian
Jew
Muslim
Hindu
Buddhist
Agnostic
Other

Multi choice might make sense because I would put Jew and atheist, but either way works. Christianity really needs to be separated into three groups unfortunately

How could you be Jewish and Atheist? If you're counting Jewish because of ethnicity, it would not apply to a religious poll. I could understand Jewish/Agnostic even, but not Jewish/Atheist.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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For some reason I considered putting Pagan on the list.

Lol.. Don't mind me. Anyway, this will strictly be a one choice Poll. Unless you want to imply that you were brought up Jewish, but are now Atheist, that's fine - I suppose I'll keep it unlocked so people can post their specifics if they're willing.

I hope you guys have enjoyed these so far - Albeit a bit lacking on my part.

This week has been emotional.
-sigh-

but it got better. :3

So I promise to make this thread more interesting over the weekend.. I hope.. :D

Starting up poll!
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Russia (X)
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Quote:
 
Sorry, but there's no logical reason to oppose the state. The state is necessary for a society to survive and advance, or some kind of centralized authority, at least. A society can not legitimately survive on its own without a government, authority, or hierarchy of some sort. The flaws in human nature prevent that from being feasible.

My results coming soon.

Not really. The state is a machination that can be tremendously powerful. Good or bad. The problem is, when the political ideas of someone else effect how I live my life (to the point of death for religious violations in some countries) there's a problem. Because the state does not always serve even a significantly (like above 85%) large majority of the population and yet can effect every member of the populace to a life-and-death extent, it's existence is illegitimate and illogical.

Centralized decision-making can still exist without a state. Voluntary associations would be preferable. Microstates even would be much better. The microstates can still launch joint, voluntary federations if enough members consent (those who do not can leave if they strongly object), as long as an opt-out is available. The problem is when you force someone into a situation that they don't agree with, and if they do opt out in modern society they suffer for it.

Quote:
 
Thing is - What's good for the individual isn't good for every individual, even if that individual can find a few million who agrees on that political level.. there will always be a few million who don't agree as well.


Indeed. Individuals create states. States that do not directly serve the interests of the individuals within do not serve all of the individuals, and thus their existence is no longer logical except to those who (real or perceived) are reliant on that state.

Yes, I maxed it out!
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United States [Sel]
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Pakistan [X
 
,19 Jun 2009 16.06.08] Centralized decision-making can still exist without a state. Voluntary associations would be preferable. Microstates even would be much better. The microstates can still launch joint, voluntary federations if enough members consent (those who do not can leave if they strongly object), as long as an opt-out is available. The problem is when you force someone into a situation that they don't agree with, and if they do opt out in modern society they suffer for it.

That is what a state is, my friend.
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United States [Sel]
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Palestinian Authority [Lyly
 
,19 Jun 2009 15.14.02] How could you be Jewish and Atheist? If you're counting Jewish because of ethnicity, it would not apply to a religious poll. I could understand Jewish/Agnostic even, but not Jewish/Atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Jew
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zzmaikeru
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As he said, this is about religion, not ethnicity.
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zzLyly
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Israel [Sel Appa
 
,19 Jun 2009 16.05.00]
Palestinian Authority [Lyly
 
,19 Jun 2009 15.14.02] How could you be Jewish and Atheist? If you're counting Jewish because of ethnicity, it would not apply to a religious poll. I could understand Jewish/Agnostic even, but not Jewish/Atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Jew

My point exactly; ethnically, you'd be Jewish, but religiously, you'd be Atheist.

It's not that it's contradictory (it's not), but that we're talking about religion exclusively.
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United States [Sel]
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It's still somewhat religion. Judaism allows you to be however religious you want. It's like religion and ethnicity blended together. You can't really say ethnicity because there are Jews of every ethnicity (Russian, Chinese, Ethiopian, Tunisian, Nigerian, Indian, Iranian).
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Mexico (Hubris)
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In the eyes of Judaism, though, I was pretty sure those born to a Jewish mother were hence-by Ethnically Jewish before they were Ethnically Whatever else.

His point is that Ethnically, then, you would be considered Jewish - but you are Atheist religiously. You can be a nonpracticing Jew, then, who has lost faith in G-D (Yay, I'm Jew-friendly!) or there being a "higher power", but you wouldn't religiously be Jewish AND Atheist strictly in terms of Religion.

It'd be like..

being a..

being something that wouldn't make sense.

(last bits were to be funny)
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zzskylar
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I lol'd before the parenthetical expression. But I resent the term "Jewish" when referring to the ethnicity. I think being "Hebrew" is more accurate.

In other news, one of the girls I'm talking to [yes, girls DO exist *high fives Royais and Kyogen*] is an Agnostic Hebrew.
I'm amused easily by childish things.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Kyrgyzstan [Skylar
 
,19 Jun 2009 19.13.59] I lol'd before the parenthetical expression. But I resent the term "Jewish" when referring to the ethnicity. I think being "Hebrew" is more accurate.

In other news, one of the girls I'm talking to [yes, girls DO exist *high fives Royais and Kyogen*] is an Agnostic Hebrew.

Kyogen?

There's more than one?!

I never fully liked the Jewish Ethnicity thing - Because, then, my dad is Ethnically Jewish but I'm not.

Though his Mother and he are Lutheran, his mom was born to a mother who was a Jewish-to-Lutheran Convert from Germany.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Age Results:

SOOO...

Since there are 18 Votes for the Religion thread already, and the Age thread capped at 18 Votes, I'm going to just take teh resultehz.


13-20 [ 15 ] [83.33%]
21-25 [ 2 ] [11.11%]
26-30 [ 0 ] [0.00%]
31+ [ 1 ] [5.56%]

Anyway, being stupid and lazy, I'm pretty sure it won't require math to figure out the Average age group here on 21c. :P

So to the only one who seems ot be quite older than the rest here.. Speak out! :P Nah, unless you feel proud.. or old.. either way.. feel proud. :P

So yeah, I'm not sure what I was thinking I was going to do with these results.

There you have it, though.

It would seem we're all quite young - or I just didn't make enough age groups.
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zzLyly
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Yeah, I would have divided it up more.

like 15 & under
15-20
...

Doesn't matter though.

When you finish all these polls, you need to throw all the results into one thread.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Yeah, I sort of just tossed that first poll out there.

I would have liked this:

>13
14-17
18-21
22-25
26-29
30<

Though I still feel like I'm stereotyping 30+ to be "old", but oh well.

It doesn't matter too much now.

But yeah, over the weekend I'm going to try to put out the majority of the polls so there's some more 'thread' conversations going on as well.
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United States [Sel]
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Hubris
19 Jun 2009 19.21.54
Kyogen?

There's more than one?!

I never fully liked the Jewish Ethnicity thing - Because, then, my dad is Ethnically Jewish but I'm not.

Though his Mother and he are Lutheran, his mom was born to a mother who was a Jewish-to-Lutheran Convert from Germany.

Gwaaaa. convert back!

Unfortunately, you cant become a citizen of Israel (automatically) because she converted. What fail.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Well, I'm not entirely sure about the Great Grandma's status on the whole thing.

I'd have to ask - but she and her husband did flee Germany because of the whole.. "Hey, we're Nazis, we don't like you" ordeal. ;)

Yeah - Even so, I thought you could only claim ancestry if the Jewish blood was strictly maternal, no matter the paternal status.

I actually had a strong pull to Judaism, though - My Aunt Cathi was an almost Convert until she married, so she and I used to talk about it a lot.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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OH! HEY! MY FLAG!

Woot.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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For those who hadn't seen it because it got debumped (because I posted it as locked) here is the Age Poll - http://z9.invisionfree.com/21c/index.php?showtopic=5044

I already took the results an put them here, but I suppose I'll let the rest vote it out and I'll change the results - and see if it really makes an impact by having the rest who hadn't vote vote if they wanted to..er.. vote.

:3
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United States [Sel]
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19 Jun 2009 22.10.32
Well, I'm not entirely sure about the Great Grandma's status on the whole thing.

I'd have to ask - but she and her husband did flee Germany because of the whole.. "Hey, we're Nazis, we don't like you" ordeal. ;)

Yeah - Even so, I thought you could only claim ancestry if the Jewish blood was strictly maternal, no matter the paternal status.

I actually had a strong pull to Judaism, though - My Aunt Cathi was an almost Convert until she married, so she and I used to talk about it a lot.

It only goes back to grandparents.

Judaism only considers maternal descent. That actually has a practical reason, like all Jewish laws. You can prove who the mother is at birth, but it's hard to prove the father (in the old days at least...and then now with that IVF garbage...)

However, Israel will accept anyone with a Jewish grandparent or greater. Which has led to some problems with NeoNazi Russians being brought here by their parents looking for a better life.
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Well, if ever converting to Judaism and migrating to Israel ever became something I'd consider heavily again - I'd have to really look into it.

For now I'm content with the Kansas small town thing.

That is interesting, though - but my Grandmother is Lutheran, would they go as far back as to look at Great Grandparents?
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United States [Sel]
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I don't think so, but if you had like 2 Jewish great grandparents, you might have a case. Join IDF!
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Israel [Sel Appa
 
,20 Jun 2009 00.27.35] I don't think so, but if you had like 2 Jewish great grandparents, you might have a case. Join IDF!

Well, maybe I could be wrong altogether EXACTLY but I know they both left Germany as a couple because of fear of the Nazi Regime going further than simple accusations of the Jewish people and so forth.

I'd have to really ask around the family.
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United States [Sel]
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Then why'd they become Lutheran?
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Mexico (Hubris)
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That's it - I have to ask around.

I think it might have just been one of the parents were Jewish, and the other was Lutheran. Yet the Jewish one wasn't really serious about the faith, and then what ended up happening was after they moved here and had their kids they decided to follow Lutheranism more so than Judaism because maybe it helped them fit in as a family in the States?
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United States [Sel]
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Bah. Restore your historical rots!
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Political poll options, go!

Conservative
Liberal
Anarchist
Libertarian
Moderate
Green
Socialist

??

Maybe put up Fascist, too, for the hell of it.

That's just a quickly thought up list though, like always toss me a bone and I'll get things sat up.
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zzmaikeru
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But what if there's a mix. Like I'm socially a fascist but economically and foreign-policy-wise a liberal? D:
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Mexico (Hubris)
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Then it could be multiple choice like the Age one, which was only because that was on accident.

Though, there has to be one I'm sure you're more strongly inclined towards.

Apparently I'm Socially very Liberal, but Politically/Economically quite Conservative.

Eh, more or less I'd just stick to Libertarian as my label I suppose.
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Saudi Arabia [Maikeru
 
,20 Jun 2009 12.45.50] But what if there's a mix. Like I'm socially a fascist but economically and foreign-policy-wise a liberal? D:

Fascism is economic corporatism.
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United States [Sel]
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Mexico (Hubris)
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I had a day from hell - but it turned into a hand basket.

I also JUST NOW realized your post, Sel, about restoring my roots.
I don't know - Maybe I'll look into it, since I've always wanted to do an ancestry thing, and maybe the most I'd do with my Jewish roots would just try to say I'm Jewish-descendent/ethnic.

Actually I guess I'm really interested in looking into it now.
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,20 Jun 2009 17.31.06] I had a day from hell - but it turned into a hand basket.

I also JUST NOW realized your post, Sel, about restoring my roots.
I don't know - Maybe I'll look into it, since I've always wanted to do an ancestry thing, and maybe the most I'd do with my Jewish roots would just try to say I'm Jewish-descendent/ethnic.

Actually I guess I'm really interested in looking into it now.

Sounds great! :D
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Mexico (Hubris)
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My aunt had attempted it before, and almost became full fledged Jewish until she met her now-husband. Not that he had anything against it, but she felt it'd be easier if she just converted to his religion instead.

See, now my relationship with my fiance is the exact opposite.

"I'm Wiccan."

"Oh, cool.. I've always sort of been interested by that religion."

"Oh, yeah, it's nice. -explains shit- but I don't really practice it anymore."

"Ah, yeah.. I'm technically Lutheran I guess, but I've never really practiced that either."

neh.

Does it matter, though, that I was baptized Lutheran? Just innocently curious.
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zzskylar
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Jordan [Hubris
 
,20 Jun 2009 19.36.33] Does it matter, though, that I was baptized Lutheran? Just innocently curious.

Water is water is water. Doesn't really make a difference who is reading the piece of paper while you're being splashed or dunked or some third onomatopoeia.
I'm amused easily by childish things.
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