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| Clubs - Yes? No?; Can a Christian go to Clubs? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 10 2006, 05:35 PM (1,826 Views) | |
| Duddy | Sep 10 2006, 05:35 PM Post #1 |
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IT Secretary
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The big Poll this week is - Can a Christian go to these places and still be blameless in the sight of the Lord? Opinions please! |
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| Duddy | Sep 11 2006, 08:12 PM Post #2 |
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IT Secretary
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This poll is shocking me personally. It is proving that Christians are becoming more and more comfortable in todays society. We are not of this society! WE are the ones saying what is ok and what is not. We have a guilty conscience for goin in the first place and therefore try and make ourselves look blameless by claiming that we 'don't drink'. And guys if you are under 18... there is no 'Am i doing something wrong?'. You are going against the Bible teachings of following the law. So under 18's at the preformal? Guys you are spiritually wrong. Im not trying to shock anyone... im not trying to make anyone feel guilty but i am trying to provide the voice of reason. Guys there is no opposite Christian Viewpoint. Christ's whole ministry was about evangelising. When he was not evangelising? Where was he? Praying or just chilling with the disciples. if you need proof of what you are doing is against God's will then look up Romans 13 v 1-5. |
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| Duddy | Sep 12 2006, 07:57 PM Post #3 |
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IT Secretary
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Geez at least defend your views!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Kyle | Sep 13 2006, 04:13 PM Post #4 |
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Admin, or something .
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Calm down Duddy my friend. I have not voted, as i really can't decide on the matter.I'm going to do what I traditionally do, and sit on the fence. Is it right for a Christian to go to a night club? Maybe not. But at the same time, you could so easily have asked "is it [b]wrong[/b]" [QUOTE] Christ's whole ministry was about evangelising[/QUOTE] My friend, you could take the viewpoint that you ARE evangelising by going out. Certainly, sitting in your house with a bunch of christians is not evangelising.Whilst of course it is tres important to spend time with other christians, you should not be with them excluseivly. Did Christ not preach sermons to thousands of unbelievers, did he not spend his life evangilising to them? Did Christ stay in the one place all his life? No. He spoke to all sorts of people, and travelled all over. Surely in order to evangilise you have to spend time with non-christians. A lot of people go to night clubs to get drunk, take drugs, and do whatever else. Certainly, i believe it is wrong for Christians to engage in these sort of things. And I guess that being around people getting drunk is not the healthiest thing ever, but perhaps it's just something that has to be done, if you want to be part of "God's Army" which Nathan so passionately spoke about in SU. Does an army sit together all the time? No. They go out into the unknown, and they fight for what they believe, taking risks. If your best friends happen to enjoy going out clubbing, then I don't think it's fair to just not socialise with them. Surely will being out with a christian not have a positive affect on them? Perhaps they will see that a christian can have fun without having to get drunk. Perhaps they will be intruiged about christianity? Who knows where it can end. Again, cast your minds back to SU last week where we were told to outreach outreach outreach. Maybe one christian going out to a club with a group of non christians won't make a difference.[b] But what if it does?[/b] On the other hand, you can take the view that Christians should be seen to be different from the masses hitting the Coach every weekend. Surely in this way we can also seen to be apart from the crowd, to be different. I guess it all depends on how far out into society you want to go to outreach. Do you want to be seen to be different by not going to these places full stop? Or do you maybe want to go, but then show others that it's possible to enjoy yourself without alcohol? Speaking on a personal level, I certainly don't plan on hitting the clubs every weekend. A preformal I can handle. I doubt I could stand the horrible music they belt out. Quite simply I am not relaly interested in clubbing, and can think of a million better things to do with my time. Should we go to the preformal? By all means I see no problem in doing it. However as Nathan said, read that passage from Romans.. if i was under 18 I would seriously think twice about going. However I'm not and I shall go and see what the craic is. If asked why I am not drinking, I would have no problems in telling people that I am a Christian and don't feel the need to. At the end of the day guys It's up to wether or not you are comfortable going to these places I guess. Some of us will be, some won't. |
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| ben | Sep 16 2006, 01:50 PM Post #5 |
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Praise leader
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What I would like to know is why are we guilty for going in the first place? Its just I've done some research on this and I can't quite find what it is that we are doing which is illegal ?? If we do not consume alcohol, under the age of 18, I can find no reason for us not being allowed to be there. The law is a little hazy around the subject but im open to contrary evidence. Thus, if we go into these dark places of human society and take with us "this little light of mine", what are we doing wrong? I would say that we are in fact boldly doing what Jesus would have done! Doctors dont look to help,cure or save healthy people, so why should we as christians (who are called to evangelise) not seek to find those in society who are spirtiually ill and try and help them?!! Jesus socialised with all the misfits, drunks, outcasts and evil-doers of the day, so why don't we try and break out of our cosy christian bubbles once in a while! Now, if I claimed to be going to these places to purely evangelise, i'd be lying...BUT, we can never know the impact of even the smallest action on a non-christian! We can't read into the future so how do we know that we aren't going to be presented with an amazing opportunity to witness! Even the small decision to not drink (although this in itself is not the problem) can spark off so many questions in a non-christians mind and so far most accounts I have heard is that people respect this! Finally, I've read a great book called 'The Master Plan For Evangelism', which basically says to evangelise like the master himself-Jesus- did ! I believe that making awesome friendships with non-christians is the way Jesus did it with his disciples. Therefore if I can make amazing friendships with non-christians then surely if i live as a christian ought to, they will notice something different in us eventually. So by going out to places with my non-christian friends, I can make better friendships with them and hopefully be a witness to them, by looking out for them and not conforming to the idea that "you have to be drunk to have a good time"! In the end, we all have the right to our own opinions and beliefs and shouldn't try and force them on anyone. Instead we should respect others and allow them to make their own decisions, for who are we to judge others! |
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| Kyle | Sep 16 2006, 07:40 PM Post #6 |
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Admin, or something .
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Some good points there Benno! After having been to the preformal, I realised that it's probably unlikely that there will be an oppertunity to evangelise in the middle of a nightclub. Many people are in a drunken haze, and the music's so loud. However, I did hang around with a few new people, who I hadn't really known that well before. Even had a chat with some of them the next day. Surely making friendships with non-Christians is where it all begins! I mean we are more liekly to talk to our friends about God than we are total strangers afterall. And as Dave Barr said himself, where does your light shine most brightly? Amongst other lights or out in the dark?! |
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| beky777 | Sep 17 2006, 04:51 PM Post #7 |
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Really addicted to the forum!!!
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Personally i dnt tink Christians shud be goin to clubs, purely because i dnt tink its Biblical... Firstly why would you want to go? i can honestly say that i have no desire to go clubbing or got to pre-formals. Romans 12 v 2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good and acceptable, and perfect will of God." In other words, dont conform to the ways of the world and its corrupt society but rather be transformed unto the things concerning Christ. Colossians 3 v 1-2 "If ye be risen with Christ seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right habd of God (v2) Set your affection on things above, not on thing on the earth." this is pretty self explaniatory but basically we are to set our minds, as Christians on things above. I can hardly see how clubbing is setting your mind on things above... I often hear the argument that you are being a witness to others by not drinking while in clubs, but i feel this is a daft claim, which is better in the eyes of those around us who are constantly scrutenising the actions of the Christian, and more importantly the eyes of God? Do we conform to society and do the expected thing and go to clubs? Or do we stand upo for Christ and refuse to be part of such worldly actions, and then if we are asked why we chose not to attend the club (which i guarantee you will be asked, as i have been asked recently in regards to the pre-formal) You now have presented before you an amazing opportunity to share the Gospel. Be a light unto the world! and show the unsaved the way! I reguarly hear that ur light shines best in darkness, but i must disagree, for it is in the darkness that r light grows dimmer, why not step back form the sins of the world, and show the sinner in darkness the way??? 2 Corinthians 6 v 14 & 17 "...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (v17) "Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thin; and i will receive you." How can anyone deny these clear passages of scripture which command us as Christians to be separate from things of the world? Yes we may be living in this world, for a time, but remember this is not our ultimate destination, and while we may live in the world we are not part of the world, for we are Christs. This does not in any way hinder are evangelising, if anything it helps us. If we are separated, we are more likely to have questions asked of us, giving oportunity to witness. I am in no way suggesting we hide oursleves away from the world, yea it is our Christian duty to witness for Christ, but i cannot see how joining the ways of the world will help Christ, and what he has done for us shine through. As a Christian, our actions must show forth Chrsit! i feel these few verses (which are merely the tip of the ice burg in regards to this issue) show us that the Christian is to be separated from the world unto Christ! |
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| Duddy | Sep 18 2006, 03:50 PM Post #8 |
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IT Secretary
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Guys stop telling me to calm down... im sorry i do not have a laid back attitude to Chrisitanity. Christianity is about passion and urgency. So you see my agitation as a bad thing i see it as an asset. I will fight for my points. Revolution must come. I intend to fight for it. No offence guys but a chilled out attitude in my opinion is not what Christianity is about. And there is no fence here guys. At the end of the day if the law says that under 18 may not go into clubs ( which i am unsure about ) then you go you sin. Im not goin to sugarcoat it or rationalise it for you. As you know thats not my style and it certainly wasn't Jesus's. If it is against the law then it is wrong. Fullstop. |
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| char | Sep 19 2006, 06:53 PM Post #9 |
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ok well this is certianly a heated topic!!! i may be going out on a limb here but i am almost 100% certian that it says in the BIble that yes we should live by teh law of the land but it also says that if these laws conflict with God's will then we should do what is right by God's will.. im not expressing my view just putting it out there. that's all im saying on that. Also Ben adn I had a very interesting conversation with a non-christian friend about "selective christianity" for example ok one may be breaking the law by going to night clubs under 18 but one is also breaking that law by downloading illegal music or copying CD's or DVD's or displaying music publically without a license. what im saying is that we so easily as Christians choose our laws, nobody is perfect least of all me but we can't pick an choose...something we could all work on im sure. Anyway back to my non-christian friend, he saw it as selective christianity bacause he saw christians not goin to the pre-formal but saw them downloading illegal music...confusing for him as you can imagine.... |
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| Guest | Sep 19 2006, 08:35 PM Post #10 |
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Certainly i agree that you should not comply with the law of the land if it is contrary to the word of God...like for instance i heard mr. brown saying (on a rare occassion when i actually listen) that sumone in england got arrested for handing out a tract!!!! Pretty shocking i thought! It seems to me that evangelising is becoming more and more difficult, as no matter what sumone takes it the wrong way and gets offended! Nyway bk to the point, yes, follow the law of the land as long as it does not compromise your beliefs and the will of God, but how is going to a club (underage or not) interferring in the will of God. If we see clubbing (but not drinking) as a form of witnessing then why not do it in a more convient place, when people ar not half drunk, and in a nice quiet corner where there is no excessivly loud dance music. Yea its true its a real struggle for a Christian to do the right thing cause people are always trying to catch you out n say "o but i thought so and so was a Christian" and it is impossible to lead a perfect life. But just because we no we cnt live a perfect life dosent mean that we dont try to lead a perfect life. I heard a preacher saying that as Christians we should aim to flee as far away from sin as we can, not get as close to it as is possible! I try to live by this!(believe me it really makes you think) Nyway i think the most important thing is to search the scriptures...after all its like a guide book to life...personally i think the Bible is pretty clear on how the Christian should live, and whether we should be attending clubs etc.(see my post before) Also, although non Christians may point out that well your ultra strick on this point but not so strict on the other, this attitude is to be expected!!! Check out the Bible, even Jesus was rejected and mocked in his home town of Nazareth during His early ministry. As Christians we should live a life wellpleasing unto God, and if it maybe puts some people off the idea of Christianity there is nothing we can do about it! Christians aim to be God pleasers not man pleasers. We have just gotta pray that God will deal with the hearts of people, while we get on with leading a life pleasing to God! (dat was probably all rather ramboly, i jus typed as the ideas came!) |
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| Guest | Sep 20 2006, 02:48 PM Post #11 |
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I totally agree! Charlotte you say about Selective Christianity... This cannot be used as an excuse to sin. You cannot say that because someone may not go to a club and then download music that gives you an excuse to sin by going. God will remember those who did not go to the club but will be dissapointed with you for going and then trying to rationalise it. Excuses excuses as the saying goes! As for the law going against God. This law does not go against God lol! So that argument is void! |
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| char | Sep 20 2006, 05:35 PM Post #12 |
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Member
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ok well first of all this isn't about me going or not going to a club so please dnt direct comments at individual members also i believe nobody has the right to say anybody elses opinion is "void" what i was saying is that this is how non-christians see us that is all. what i was saying was we have to be very careful that we are not publically seen to avoid one sin but all knowingly choose another in teh company of non-christian friends that is all. |
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| ben | Sep 20 2006, 07:35 PM Post #13 |
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Praise leader
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yeh, take it easy mr/mrs guest! i dont think anyone has the right to tell anyone else that their opinion is "void", that is just disrespectful and judgemental. who are we to judge others?? in regards to what our non-christian friend said, i just found it very interesting to observe how easily he immeadiately picked holes in this view of not going to clubs! and i think as christians that we do tend to do a lot of picking and choosing! im not saying that we ought to use this as an excuse to sin, im just saying that often we should realise the splint in our own eye before trying to get the speck of dust out of anothers. it works both ways; people could quite as easily sin in another way and then say but its ok, i dont go out and drink illegally! its interesting what you say about fleeing as far as possible from sin but i dont think i agree with this totally. i can understand how we should try and not associate ourself with sinful things, but i find that this is like turning our backs on non-christians and just expecting them to come to us! God intended us to be the ones to take the gospel to them, not sit back and wait for them to inquire, which i think we can slip into in our christian bubbles. God hates the sin, NOT the sinner, so i dont think we should flee from all sinners and leave them to their own devices. also, we can never comprehend or understand God's will, so we can never tell where God may decide to give us an amazing opprtunity to witness! good discussion folks, its cool to get interesting debate going! lets just remember that things shouldnt become personal and to respect others views! |
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| Laurnie | Sep 20 2006, 08:10 PM Post #14 |
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This is a very debatable topic and i really havent decided as to what my opinion is yet on Christians going out clubbing. Coz we are told to be in the world, bt not of the world, so is going clubbing conforming to the world? Yet on the other hand, how are we ever gona reach other people if we dnt step into their 'world' as so to speak. I mean why should non-Christians come to Christian youth events or wotever with us, if we are unwilling to have a bit of give and take and experience what they do. Im not saying Christians should go out and get drunk, no way, rite bt i think there can be a compromise in that if u are willingt o do what they want, they will be more willing to come to church or werever. But its also difficult in that, you gta always think, is this what Jesus would do? If he were here, i know he is in spirit, bt like in person, if he were here, is a club really where wed want to take him. Bt then again Jesus did mix with the outcasts and drunks. I think its difficult bt at the end of the day everyone is accountable to God for themselves. So i think Christians should all have respect for each other and their opinions on this matter whatever they decide is right for them. |
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| Duddy | Sep 20 2006, 08:24 PM Post #15 |
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IT Secretary
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Ok... couple of things. Mr Guest... your views in my opinion are correct
However try not to direct it straight at people? I understand your frustrations but keep it less personal! However i do believe that this is not a debatable topic. In the same way that murder ( albeit much stronger ) cannot be debated as whether it is right or wrong this is not a fence topic as i like to call them. At the end of the day everyone will excuse their own path. Heck i do it all the time for my sins! But at the same time we must strive to make a difference where we can. I personally was dissapointed when the preformal came and went. But i made my decision and at the end of the day I must think of how God will judge me! |
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8:16 AM Jul 11