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Purgatory
Topic Started: Mar 30 2008, 10:12 PM (167 Views)
J.A.C.C.
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Yesterday mornin i had a dream where i died and i was simply waiting in a sunlit room for some time where there was a door and i was waiting to be called. this scared me - it made me think that if i died tomorrow i doubt id go to heaven since i have not dedicated my life to God - seconds maybe but thats it! :unsure: phew, i had to get that out of my system.

just wondrin was that Purgatory and if it wasnt, does it exist?
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Naomi
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I personally dont believe that purgatory exists because it doesnt say anything about it in the Bible. the roman catholic community believe in purgatory and its kinda like when you die you go to purgatory and then if the people who you have left behind pray for you enough and light enough candles etc you will go to heaven. I believe that when you die you will either go straight to heaven or hell - one or the other!

the only condition that God sets down for us getting into heaven is that we have to accept Jesus as our saviour and in doing so repent form our sins - thats it!!
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Revive
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Yeah, it's like when you pay money to the Roman Cathoolic church, they say you are paying your way through Pergatory, and if you give enough you will go to heaven, but I don't believe it either, or else you would be going to heaven through your works, which totally contradicts the bible.

It saysthat your best acts of kindness and selflessness are as dirty rags to God, and you can do nothing baout that. Because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, everyone sins mor ethan they do good, so we will never be good enough for Heaven. That is where grace comes in. Christianity ids the only faith where grace is the reason for our salvation. It says in the bible we were saved by GRACE through faith, not by anything we could do.

Naomi is right, the bible doesn't say anything about Pergatory, which would have been mentioned if it was real.

Also, Jesus said to the sinner on the cross beside him, today you shall be with me in paradise, he didn't say, I'll see you when you get out of Pergatory. Jesus saves because he loves us, and while we should do things for God, and give tithe and "sacrifices" to God, through money or time etc. that will not get us into or keep us out of heaven.

Wow, that was a long post!!! Didn't realise until i looked up from my typing!!! Hope that helps.
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J.A.C.C.
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thanks, yea u hit the nail on the head about grace, yet, at times i just cannot understand how some1 so continually sinful and useless is loved by God so much that He sacrificed His own son.
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Revive
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well, i suppose again it is down to grace. Yeah we don't deserve it, never have, but your parents would never stop loving you mo matter how many times you did bad stuff against their word.

God loves us even more than our parents, and he had to have us with him, so he did what he could, and made the perfect sacrifice - for us. I know what you mean, i still can't fathom it sometimes, but that's what faith is about - believing in a God you can't see but you know is there. We can't see his love, but we know it is there. proven by Jesus' death. Also in God's case it is hate the sin love the sinner.

My mum got an email from her friend about love - views from 4 to 8 year olds, and i just want to share a couple (cos i thought they were cute i suppose!!!) Dont really know if they have much to do with what i was saying, they're just nice!:

Terri, 4 "Love is what makes you smile when you're tired"

Nikka, 6 "If you want to learn to love etter, you should start with a friend who you hate"

Lauren, 4 "I know my older sister loves me because she gives me all her old clothes and has to go ut and buy new ones" - this one made me laugh, i hated getting my sister's clothes!!!

This one was written in blue so it would stand out, it's lovely:

A four year old child lived next door to an elderly neighbour who had just lost his wife.
Upon seeing the man cry, the little boy went into the man's yard, climbed onto his lap and just sat there.
When his mother asked him what he had said to the neighbour he replied, "Nothing, i just helped him cry"

- Aw!!! These are just some pictures of love, yet God loves us more than anyone, he knows all about you and still cares, how amazing is that!!!!

Sorry! another long one. Oh well! :rolleyes:
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jonny2shoes
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Great post revive, just great! :)
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Gareth_H
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Sometimes I think children know more than we do!

Thos quotes touched me actually haha!

Anyway, purgatory I don't believe in. The wages of sin is death. That's in.

That's something God has been saying to recently but in a really loving way. I tend to worry stupidly about conseguences of my sins.Like really things such as "Oo if I swear or anything today God's gonna make me fail my driving test." No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There can be earthly consequences for our sins but God'sonly punishment is death/hell.

Therefore, how could purgatory exist as it is a sort of punishment!?

Also I think purgatory is somewhere where you pay for your sins type thing isn't it?

Well, Jesus paid for our sins. Completely. That's it. IT IS FINISHED!

All we have to do is accept it like how amazing!!!!!! God's class. :)

I dunno how I coped without Him in my life.
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Revive
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Good post Gareth, I agree!!!!

I know I feel like that too. There are times when I feel like he is my only lifeline, when loads of stuff is just piling on me, and I feel I can't stick it.

God doesn't keep tabs on you, and bless/curse you according to your sins. If he did, I would never be blessed!

I think we have to tell God the truth, don't gloss over anything. I went through stuff with my friends, and that was hard, I think girls are better at excluding people, guys tend to have a punch up, then be friends again, but it took ages, and at times, I literally cried out to him, Why me? Why did this have to happen? He certainly didn't make it rosy quickly (Well, definately not as fast as I'd like, nine months is a long time to me!!!) but he gave me the strength to keep going. My other friends, especially the ones I could tell about it were also a great blessing. I felt guilty for telling God ff, and shouting at hi, but then I was reading the psalms, and those writers do that too. They want answers, and are crying out to God, but ended each psalm with praise, because God always answers us.

He answers us and he will take our sins when we ask for forgiveness, then why would Purgatory exist??? :huh:
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jonny2shoes
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it just doesn't! Simple as that.

Remember that shpeil I did on the decline of the christian church? Well I believe that Purgatory was used to increase revenue to the catholic church by allowing people to 'pay their way' to heaven. same as penance.
I grabbed this from wikki which explains it a bit more

Posted Image

this also caugh my attention,
Quote:
 
Sin

Roman Catholics make a distinction between two types of sin.[12] Mortal sin is a "grave violation of God's law" that "turns man away from God",[13] and if it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell.[14]

In contrast, venial sin (meaning "forgivable" sin) "does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God"[15] and, although still "constituting a moral disorder",[16] does not deprive the sinner of friendship with God, and consequently the eternal happiness of heaven.[17]

According to Roman Catholicism, pardon of sins and purification can occur during life - for example, in the Sacrament of Baptism[18] and the Sacrament of Penance.[19] However, if this purification is not achieved in life, venial sins can still be purified after death.[20] The specific name given to this purification of sin after death is "purgatory".[21]


what on earth?!?
sin is sin.
sin=death
sin+death=hell
there is no scale of sin which changes your level of forgiveness!
and you can't be forgiven after you die! because there would be no point in jesus coming down to save us!

and:
Quote:
 
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the fate of those in purgatory can be affected by the actions of the living.[30]

In the same context there is mention of the practice of indulgences. An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven.[31] Indulgences may be obtained for oneself, or on behalf of Christians who have died.[32]

Prayers for the dead and indulgences have been envisioned as decreasing the "duration" of time the dead would spend in purgatory. Traditionally, most indulgences were measured in term of days, "quarantines" (i.e. 40-day periods as for Lent), or years, meaning that they were equivalent to that length of canonical penance on the part of a living Christian.[33] When the imposition of such canonical penances of a determinate duration fell out of custom these expressions were sometimes popularly misinterpreted as reduction of that much time of a soul's stay in purgatory.[34] In Pope Paul VI's revision of the rules concerning indulgences, these expressions were dropped, and replaced by the expression "partial indulgence", indicating that the person who gained such an indulgence for a pious action is granted, "in addition to the remission of temporal punishment acquired by the action itself, an equal remission of punishment through the intervention of the Church"[35]

Historically, the practice of granting indulgences, and the widespread[36] associated abuses, which led to them being seen as increasingly bound up with money, with criticisms being directed against the "sale" of indulgences, were a source of controversy that was the immediate occasion of the Protestant Reformation in Germany and Switzerland.[37]


now I don't even believe thats biblical!

It's a pretty interesting article, read the full wrap here. :)
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Revive
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Yeah, thats right, i agree.

Purgatory just doesn't exist. Period.
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Naomi
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Were doing about sin and stuff in RE atm and I think that one of our big problem is not being able to define what sin is today. the church has become so affected by society (dont get me wrong not saying that it is totally a bad thing) but we are finding it harder and harder to define what sin is.

The diagram (kindly supplied by johnny2shoes) shows that RC's believe that if a soul need purification it goes to purgatory, maybe it is possible that this is so because they dont believe that they have been 'good enough' to go to heaven. But what we ahve to understand is that we will never be good enough to go to heaven!! If we could have been then Jesus would not have had to die!!!

Sorry this post is prob totally random and not related to anything but hey!! :P
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