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| For Those Theology/philosophy Fans | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 15 2008, 08:48 PM (160 Views) | |
| huggy | Apr 15 2008, 08:48 PM Post #1 |
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help yourself to my msn, it'll be nice talkin to new people
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ok.. so i don't know who said this, but people have reported it to have been said by Albert Einstein.... just hope you guys are into this stuff... i am =] (i stole this off another forum.. hehe) The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied "Yes, He did!" "God created everything?" the professor asked. "Yes sir", the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil". The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" The Professor replied "Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have not heat. The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does". The student relied, "Once again you are wrong sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present." Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil." To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is not light." ok so alot to read.... but man i love that =] |
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| Rachel +-- | Apr 16 2008, 03:33 PM Post #2 |
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Really addicted to the forum!!!
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I remember reading that before somewhere but it's so true! Non-Christians tend to argue that if God loves us then why did He create this or allow that to happen etc. But it's because God is absent from something that makes it evil. |
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| Naomi | Apr 16 2008, 06:21 PM Post #3 |
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Nemo
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This is soo true, but the fact is that God made us with free will so he passed the descisions for good and evil over to us, so yes God made us but he didn't make evil!! Totally hadn't tought of it like Huggy's post put it, but totally love it!!!!
In RE atm were doing about some chruch father called Origen and he had some totally random ideas about evil and salvation etc!! He said that God made a load of spirits and then all but one rebelled those who rebelled alot were punished by being turned into the devil and his angels etc the next lot were made into humans and the one who clung to God was the soul of Jesus - totally weird and totally wrong but hey the interesting bit is that because we all have free will - even the devil we can all choose to accept Jesus. Question is does this mean that it is also a possibility that satan (not saying that he would choose to do this) could choose to repent - in the begining he choose to rebell, so is it possible for him to come back?? If you use Origen's traching then he can, but I don't think so!! Your thoughts???? |
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| jonny2shoes | Apr 17 2008, 06:27 PM Post #4 |
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resident waffler
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All I can say to the professor is OWND! In RE to Niaomi, Yes there is that possibility but it will never happen because it is profecied in Rev. That he will become worse and gain control over very powerful people in this earth (if you know what I mean) and eventually get thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. It's sort of scary and exciting at the same time if you read through Revelation a few times, it's a bit conceptual/hard to understand in places but when you vaguely get an idea of what it's about and compare it to what's going on in todays world its pretty exciting. I think it's about to get tougher!! |
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| Naomi | Apr 20 2008, 12:14 PM Post #5 |
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Nemo
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Yep I agree there, its ment to be as bad as it was in the days of Noah, Not sure how bad they were but they must have been awful!!! Rev is totally confusing!! Is it just me or does 'for ever' seem quite scary!! |
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| tgraham | Apr 24 2008, 11:21 AM Post #6 |
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Newbie
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What then about demons (ie fallen angels)? |
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| jonny2shoes | Apr 24 2008, 05:02 PM Post #7 |
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resident waffler
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but once Jesus comes back to bring us all back too heaven there will be no more chances of salvation in the 'spiritual rhelm' (i.e. heaven/hell) so if demons are of a spiritual nature then does that not apply to them? |
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| huggy | Apr 24 2008, 08:33 PM Post #8 |
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help yourself to my msn, it'll be nice talkin to new people
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.. i think that is a good question... yes God forgives anyone who asks for forgiveness.. but... have deamons not committed the 'unforgivable' sin.. aggh i know back to that... but i cannot see it possible for the devil to be forgiven... or his deamons... they have purposfull choosen to go against God.... hmmm (in deep thinking) lol.... lets just say i don't know
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| Naomi | Apr 25 2008, 08:38 PM Post #9 |
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Nemo
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Ok I've just had a ping moment!!! And now I really hopw that i'm going to quote this right!!!! KK when Jesus died he died for the sins of mankind now angels and demons aren't man they are spirits so does that mean that Jesus didn't die for them?? |
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| huggy | Apr 27 2008, 01:04 PM Post #10 |
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help yourself to my msn, it'll be nice talkin to new people
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..... well... possibly... what exactly are angels?... i always thought they were 'us' when we died... like our other form... well... i knew God had angels that wern't humans... but its wierd to think of it like that.. meh.... |
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| jonny2shoes | Apr 27 2008, 10:24 PM Post #11 |
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resident waffler
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I was just thinking there (I know, shock horror
) and I'm just going to say this, There are some things that the human brain just cant comprehend, things that are so great that they just seem impossible to us; like what it was really like before God started making everything or what God did before he made the universe, or why the 'fallen' angels/satan can't be forgiven. But if you think about it, do we really need to know? If God created everything we can/can't see does he not have the knowledge to match that (even that is hard to comprehend -how smart/creative God is). We are only Human, with a human brain but with a huge desire to learn. But some things just can't be learnt. Man is becoming smarter and smarter but all he is really wanting is to know as much as God knows. Will we all die if we don't know how God created man from dust (some carbon, a few minerals and a bunch of other substances)? It says somewhere in the NT that we shouldn't fuss ourselves over philisophical things so much so that we are distracted away from what we are intended for, to get to heaven and take as many people with you as possible I don't know if I'm ranting, it's just whats on my mind Nice weather lately!! Beautiful weather. ok I'm off to bed, I'm starting to drivel again... |
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| Naomi | Apr 28 2008, 11:18 AM Post #12 |
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Nemo
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I one heard someone say that we should be more conserned with the parts of the Bible that we understand than those that we don't! But hey its still fun to try and think about some of the stuff that we dont understand. And sometimed we are forced to think about it because of heresy or perscution etc. |
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| huggy | Apr 28 2008, 09:59 PM Post #13 |
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help yourself to my msn, it'll be nice talkin to new people
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...... hey, no arguing is a part of Christianity (or debating as its called) i just find a forum as a place to learn... no harm in asking questions... then again.. the Bible has al the answers(and God) |
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| beky777 | May 1 2008, 10:16 PM Post #14 |
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Really addicted to the forum!!!
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hmmmm.....back to the first post jus to throw a spanner in the works....the student paralled that the existance of cold was due to the absence of heat...but God is ominpresent and omniscient...ie everywhere....so the following through idea that evil is the absence of God doesnt work....also that kind of thinking is a little dualsitic in approach if u further think it thru (an ur head hurts!!!) ie that goodness (which can be correlated to God) dosnt mix with evil. Calvanism (which i am kind of an advocate of) lead people to the conclusion that God created evil and sin also. Its a bit of a mind boggling question which i dnt think can be answered. atheists wud say we use the 'God works in mysterious ways' as a bit of a get of jail free card but i think its kind of obscure that we the created try to explain the Creator. Its kinda daft if u think it thru, lik and employee trying to tell the employer what to do. What is man created for???(shorter catechism comes in handy here!!) "Mans chief is to glorify God and enjoy HIm forever." We are to enjoy and glorify God, not explain Him....how can the created beings as ourselves (who cant even explain a small small percentage of the human body and the world around us) explain El Shaddai (Almighty God)???????? It is good to explore our beliefs and doctrines certainly but there are sum things which are beyond the capability of the human mind. But take joy from this...When we pass into Heaven, are sanctification complete, we shall be glorified and it will all become clear! (kk afat my waffle i read jony2shoes post n i kinda reiterate wat e said!lol!) About the angels thing...sumwhere in the epistles (one of the shorter ones lik timothy or peter...cnt remember...) bt der was no was of redemption for them. (i think) About Revelations...generally their are two ways of looking at the book....you can take it as mostly literal or mostly figurative (personally im a figurative kinda gal!...ie i think 1000 years is not a literal 1000 years but the age of the CHurch....others take a literal approach and suggest a physical 1000year reign of Christ followed by sumthin else(cnt memebr wat it is)...) |
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| Naomi | May 2 2008, 08:31 AM Post #15 |
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Nemo
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kk so we just have to tweek it to the absence of God in that person, who is doing the evil's, life - problem solved!! But goodness doesn't mix with evil which is why Jesus had to die on the cross (sorry am kinda ansering as I read!!) But God didn't creat evil because it said that good look at creation and saw that it was GOOD - not bad/evil. AAGh to much thinking for one day I have to get back to my health and social care - DONT GO THERE!!! |
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) and I'm just going to say this,
2:53 PM Jul 11