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A Philisophical Question...; For those of you with brains...
Topic Started: Jul 19 2005, 09:05 AM (841 Views)
Xingyi Zhang
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Without any fanfare to distract you, I'll ask my question and then allow you to answer, just so I can blast your points out of the sky. I don't mind jokes, but please, if you post, try to add something to the discussion. If you come up with the same answer I have, I'll let you know, but still allow others to try and prove us wrong, though I believe it impossible. It will, however, be easier to lay out my reasons why once you have given your own answers.

What makes Evil wrong?

(Define 'wrong' as 'something that should not be' or 'something that should be hated or feared' you get the idea... define 'evil' however you like, though. But if you think it's a unique definition, please let us know what it is.)
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OkashiraShinomori
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First off, truly defining something is not possible. As people are what define concepts, these definitions are subject to change as the popular opinion changes. The word "gay" for instance, has undergone a radical definition change for no apparent reason. Words like "evil" and "good," however are in a state of constant flux depending on the current times and opinion.

Take the war with Iraq. Many Americans consider terrorists to be evil incarnate. To those on the other side, the "terrorists" are freedom fighters of a sort, and are idolized. To actually place a label on something as being "evil" and have said label indisputable is not possible as long as humans are the ones creating the definitions.

I reason that "evil," like any other concept, is not truly definable. Rather, "evi" is simply "unpopular" and completely dependant upon your view of the subject that you wish to label as "evil."
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Xingyi Zhang
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Just to clear it up, I mean the concept of Evil as a whole, defined by anyone. The definition of 'Evil' is not the issue here, but why it is 'wrong'.
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Spiritmage
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Your assuming that evil exists. There is no such thing as evil because to the person doing the "evil", it isn't evil. Whether they are mentaly unstable, have been brought up that way, or believe that in the end it will bring about a greater good. Something can be wrong from one person's point of view, or many people's point of view. And something can hurt another, and be bad. But it isn't "evil" it's just how they are.


Something becomes "wrong" when it hinders/harms another person. However just because something is "wrong" it dosn't mean it can't be, for want of a better word, good. A simple example, one i'm sure you've heard before, is a man stealing to feed his family. The act of stealing in itself is wrong, however the need to feed's one family isn't evil, but a good need.

Also just because something is wrong it dosn't make it evil.
Another example would be murder. Let's take a serial killer. If a serial killer goes out and kills a bunch of innocent people, then it's very wrong. However, serial killers are mentally unstable, basically insane. Most of them were abused and such as children too. Thus they arn't evil, they are as nature molded them to be. In their insane minds, i'm sure they justify it. They acts they have done are wrong, but they are not evil. How can they be, when they can't help the way they are?


Thus to answer your question Xingyi, evil isn't wrong because there is no such thing as evil. Something is "wrong" based on someone else's, and most often the majority's, view point.
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Oatsan
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Heres my simple thoughts:

Evil is only what u make it out to be.
Wrong is only what u make it out to be.
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heavenspheonix
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what makes evil wrong is society. it is wrong because society believes it is wrong. it is the beliefs of the majority that determine right and wrong because they have the power to enforce that belief.
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Xingyi Zhang
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you're still missing my answer, and avoiding the question's real point. Spiritmage, you're switching around the applications of the word wrong and evil interchangably, I believe, and the other two of you are just saying it is illusory, which is easy enough to agree with until you come through with something like, oh, say... human sacrafice or serial murder for no particular reason, even insanity.

No, the point I want to bring up is that evil, or perhaps I should say 'bad things' even when it comes to hurting others, are NOT WRONG. At all, no matter how you're looking at it. Good and Evil are simply differing points of view. Generally, the side that's more ruthless about achieving their goal is considered 'evil', but they're no different from the good. It's the means they use to reach the end that generally causes us to define it as one or the others. Gimme some points to dispute this directly, and I'll be able to give better detail on my point.
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Oatsan
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sasfds
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*Future Edit*
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Xingyi Zhang
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Actually there is a reason for fighting, strange one though it is.

It's our nature. And there's nothing wrong with that. But keep in mind: *points at the first quote in his sig*
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Spiritmage
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Xingyi Zhang,Jul 20 2005
12:23 AM
you're still missing my answer, and avoiding the question's real point. Spiritmage, you're switching around the applications of the word wrong and evil interchangably, I believe, and the other two of you are just saying it is illusory, which is easy enough to agree with until you come through with something like, oh, say... human sacrafice or serial murder for no particular reason, even insanity.

No, the point I want to bring up is that evil, or perhaps I should say 'bad things' even when it comes to hurting others, are NOT WRONG. At all, no matter how you're looking at it. Good and Evil are simply differing points of view. Generally, the side that's more ruthless about achieving their goal is considered 'evil', but they're no different from the good. It's the means they use to reach the end that generally causes us to define it as one or the others. Gimme some points to dispute this directly, and I'll be able to give better detail on my point.

aah but here's the thing. There is no such thing as a human sacrafice or serial murder for no reason. There's ALWAYS a reason, be it religous beliefs, insanity, rise in power, etc. And as such, while it is morally wrong, it is not evil. And because of this, there have been no acts that have been evil, thus there is no evil outside of the human imagination.


Now if your asking if there is such a thing as right and wrong, then that i believe there is. However, it's different for each person. Each of us has a seperate moral code, and while mine may be very very close to someone elses, there wil still be minor differences. For example, I may say it's fine for some one to kill another in self defense. We both might agree that stealing is wrong, but I may say that if that's the only means of survival left, then it's alright, while another may disagree. We all know what is good and was is wrong, for each of us . My moral code dosn't apply to you, nor yours to mine. That's why we have to have set laws, otherwise it's be chaos because no one would agree on anything in the manner of crimes and punishments and might would make right.
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Xingyi Zhang
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then, perhaps, I should ask what's wrong with any wrong, philisophically speaking from a completely objective view? The point I'm really trying to make here is that moral wrong, no matter what definition it's given, has any meaning. Ahhh, here's the best example to demonstrate it... the destruction of the earth, by completely natural causes. Is that wrong? No, it's not. It's gonna go sooner or later, what's wrong with now? Are we just so privledged or important that it can't happen in our lifetime?
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Spiritmage
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*raises one eyebrow* well the destruction of the earth by natural causes wouldn't be wrong, by any definition, because for something to be WRONG it has be something done by a sentintent species that defines right or wrong. The same way a wolf killing and eating a deer isn't wrong, the earth dying from natural causes isn't wrong.

Quote:
 
The point I'm really trying to make here is that moral wrong, no matter what definition it's given, has any meaning


I assume you mean that moral wrong has no meaning? Or your asking if it has any meaning?

Then my response would still be the same. Wrong does have a meaning. it just differs for each person. The same way right has a meaning but differs for each person.


I'm sorry if i'm not understanding your question *sweatdrop* but that's what it sounds like to me.
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CrazyInsaneAnimeFanGirl
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I actually considered that once. We think the terrorists are evil, and they think we're evil. The same can be said of other conflicting people. If we look at and consider other peoples' opinions....... (Scary thought here) Doesn't that just mean there's no right or wrong in the world?
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Oatsan
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There just isnt no ONE right or wrong.

becuase of the many points of views

and when views contradict, each try to claim supiriority.
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thenightsshadow
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Ken Akamatsu,Jul 19 2005
08:58 PM
Heres my simple thoughts:

Evil is only what u make it out to be.
Wrong is only what u make it out to be.
Both can be wiped from the world entirely, humans are just to attached to let go

I doubt that. There is a certain level of Good and Evil in one's mind.

For example, most everyone would agree it's wrong to murder someone. What determines that?

I think, as already I mentioned, that there is a certain level of Good and Evil in one's mind. How that is affected, however, is by culture, ethics, and beliefs.
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