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A Philisophical Question...; For those of you with brains...
Topic Started: Jul 19 2005, 09:05 AM (840 Views)
Alucard
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Konoka-ness Master (army of one XD)
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Like I said, Give and Take is everything, and everything never stops changing(Changing IS Give and take, in one of it's many forms)

If anything, everything that happens is made for balance

Like a traffic light

If you press that button, then you and the entire group of people your waiting with get to cross to get to wherever they're going faster. However, that also means that the people crossing on the other side of you will have to wait longer, so you just wasted a bit of their time for yourself and the people around you(Though you did it for yourself, you also inherently helped out the people around you). But if you don't, you lose out(Which many people usually don't like). Of course, there is the chance that there wont be many people on one side of the road(Maybe only one) so the side of the road with the most people deserves to cross more(Even if the individual disagrees, whatever is best for the majority is for the best). Despite that, the cross sign is a bit random(Although designed to distribute evenly, it is still not very controllable) so in some cases, the most fair point of view wont always be met

I believe it's impossible to be happy unless somebody else is unhappy in return, whether directly or indirectly,Because any move you make will influence something, and everything happens for a reason. That is the concept of Cause and Effect

That also works out to the concept of Karma(I think your happiness depletes that positive energies in the universe)

To simplify that notion, the drivers in the cars waiting for the light to change green may not have much to do with walking across the street, but they're still effected by the happenings of the cross button. You'll end up making them late too by pressing it. You'll also inadvertently slow down traffic by doing that, so drivers who aren't even waiting at that particular light may still be held up(By drivers who were held up previously, and can't control when they hold somebody else up). This works out to make traffic a bit messy, like how the drivers yell at eachother ignorantly because they're all driving on seperate roads from eachother, so they have no way of knowing the difficulties of the other drivers(You can never assume you know somebody else's problems)

Those angry drivers only band together when only one person is holding up traffic(And they honk and honk and honk...)

On that note, It often happens that helping people get to their destination faster may not be a good thing. Perhaps one of the drivers your helping will cut somebody off, and that driver'll have to wait longer, so you'll have just aided that by letting them go by faster. Or maybe the person's reckless driving caused an accident, and you'll have aided that, even if its indirectly and only to a very small degree, and we all know that car accidents hold up traffic, so you'll have made MANY people late just for letting one guy go by

You may also be making things bad for people in other, more indirect and ways and to a lesser extent. If you think about a car, whether heavy or light, sitting on the road for some few seconds, it will likely wear down the pavment, even if only to a very small degree(Everything deteriorates in some way, because nothing lasts forever, and no matter whether considered is a light class, all cars are very heavy). If you wear down that pavement, in a few years, construction crews are going to have to fix up the road and replace all the worn down pavement. We all no how annoying the guy holding up the STOP sign is, the way he directs traffic and makes us slow down. Now we lost out on precious time that we wouldn't have if they weren't fixing the road, which they wouldn't have to do if drivers weren't wearing them down, which is sped up when heavy pick-up trucks are left waiting on a single spot for too long(This is just an example, so don't go talking about parked cars on me)

Whether you slow the drivers down or speed them up, your really just taking away from somebody else. As with the cross walk, It is often that there is a less busy direction in the intersection(Like a suberban route verses the Main road that lotsa people have to use) so in many cases, you still hold up traffic somehow. On that thought, if you help people to move faster while they're driving on the main road, that means that the main road will get even busier than it already is, so some people will be late, and you helped cause that

Of course, you could always just jay-walk across to move faster, taking a risk to get better for yourself, or in the same case, a driver running a red. Even if that works, you still make thing worse for other people by doing that(Like the guy who nearly drove into you), Taking risks can have terrible outcomes, but success makes your existance easier, or you die in an accident, or by getting run over. Often, risk takers will distrupt the necessary balance, and you end up making things much worse for people other than yourself(That's what happens when somebody tries to take more than their share) but then, that means great conviction to risk your own life and it pays off, and you get ahead. That's how life often works, even if it's unfair to the drivers your holding up by running a red

On that thought, there's also the case of time and Place. No body plans to hold up traffic when they go out driving, and the person your holding up doesn't expect you to be there holding themk up. It all just happens, but of course, the TIME that it took you to wait at the stoplight may have influenced the PLACE where you held them up(Cuz everybody can move faster if they have more time). The same appies to you as well when your in your car and somebody holds you up. As long as your even ON the road, be it in your car or at the crossing light, your going to hold SOMEBODY up, whether you plan to or not

All of this happens, all because you just HAD to cross a little bit faster. In the end, we all take up space on the road somehow, so you hold up traffic any time your even in your car

Now take that entire concept and expand it to the size of the world, and you have Give and Take. As long as you live in this world, your taking away from somebody. Even breathing means removing precious air in the world, and turing it into carbon, which is recycled by plants back into air, so carbon is taken and air is given, or vise-versa

this is why humans(See "How Good Are Human Beings?") shouldn't populate the world as much as we do, cuz as long as your around, your taking, and we're sure taking ALOT from the world

Like I said, Evil is an entity taking, and Good is an entity being taken from. It's all about give and take

That's most of what Evil usually is

I'm done with my analogy of the Traffic light so
*Tips his Fedora*Good Day to you
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BlueSword
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I think people view evil as wrong as it is what the media has built it up too, we are very gulliable in our childhoods often believing the first opinian we hear without putting any logic into its meaning. Today's youthes watch alot of television and in the majourity of shows they watch it is alway be built up to be ggood, evil is wrong, cliche stuff like that, and after listing to it reppeatedly you get the message deep down in your mind and it stays there through the rest of your life and you cannnot change this ideal no matter what you try
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Dauthi
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In Christianity, evil is wrong because you will go to hell. "Wrong" is a subjective term. No one actually wants to be in hell, because it pretty much sucks, so actions that will lead you to hell are wrong. If for some odd reason you'd actually like to be in hell, then do all of the societal wrong things you want.

I am not a Christian. These are my simple terms for why evil is wrong. It's wrong because it is a detriment to society. I'm not talking about those fuzzy gray areas, where it is debatable whether it is even evil or not (i.e. self-defense killing, lying, etc) but clear cases of evil, like mass genocide or heroin dealing. If you harm other people for self-interest, you are evil and wrong.
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´Silas
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This is indeed a very interesting question, and I shall give you the answer you most likely want to hear :P

First of all, what is evil? Evil are the things that people either give people a bad consciouness, or are defined by whatever authority as evil. I shall take the freedom to boil down "evil" to the "evil doable actions" and equalize it to a discussion on what is right and wrong to do, since the wrong things are the evil ones, and the good things are the good ones, in most people's books.

Being a christian, I define my moral and ethics based on two things; The Bible and my consciousness. While I'm not gonna take a long discussion on what the Bible teaches and what not in this thread, I will say that in Europe and the states, Christianity has more or less completely defined our morals, alongside with this, what is evil and what is not. However I'll take it a bit further and try to present the idea that Einstein presented about evil not existing in itself, but being a lack of good, just like darkness is what is there when there's no light.

The reason why it is the darkness that doesn't exist in itself, but is only what's there when light is not, and not the other way, is quite logically because it's the light that breaks the darkness and not the other way around. My views on evil is the same. Evil is lack of Good, or to take it a bit further, evil is lack of God. Due to my religious beliefs, that is my answer, "evil is a lack of God", however to move on to the answer you're probably looking for, the question is; What is evil, if/when there is no God?

As for that, we have already lost the one defying object, God, which leaves us with one defying object, the consciousness. However, with no God and alongside with this, no religion, I shall take the liberty to say that consciousness is an unreliable object without religion, since I believe consciousness is depending on God and his moralset by default. This would leave us with nothing to define what evil is. Whic is also my conclusion if there is no religion, there is no evil or good.

Authorities might define actions as being either good or bad, but without a God, or another superior entity, there's no one who has the right to say what's good and what's bad. People are allowed to determine which actions should be punishable and illegal, but that doesn't equal to the actions being evil. Hence there is no evil or good without religion.
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Dauthi
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Ok, so I wrote this entire thing before actually reading your conclusion, but I don't really want to delete it, since there's like a LOT. But um yeah I mostly agree with your conclusion.

I believe you meant conscience instead of consciousness the entire time. Yeah?

'Silas
 
First of all, what is evil? Evil are the things that people either give people a bad consciouness, or are defined by whatever authority as evil.


If I binge on a pie and then feel guilty about it, does that make it evil? If a psychopath kills someone and feels no remorse, does that not make him evil? (in the absence of an authority that defines killing as evil) Your conscience does not determine how evil your actions are. It is more societal than absolute. I feel guilty about eating an entire pie because I live in a wealthy society (America) where I am pressured to diet and be thin because I am a girl. Not because eating the pie is evil.

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Christianity has more or less completely defined our morals, alongside with this, what is evil and what is not.


Far too true. To take the example into a more conventionally deemed evil, killing. This story about Rofayda Qaoud highlights a disturbingly common trend of "honor killing" practiced among Palestinians. The girl was raped and impregnated by her brothers. (horrible I know) She then refused to commit suicide. Because of that, her mother killed her in an "honor killing" in order to save the family honor and virtue. She, and the Palestinian society, did not deem it evil. Christianity would. This is not to say that her actions aren't evil, because I certainly think they were, but would you be able to define evil while incorporating her example? Absolute evil, and not socially defined evil? Could you explain why it was the "wrong" thing to do to the mother? She certainly thought she was in the right.

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The reason why it is the darkness that doesn't exist in itself, but is only what's there when light is not, and not the other way, is quite logically because it's the light that breaks the darkness and not the other way around.


Er, I don't see the logic in this. Why can't it be light doesn't exist in itself, and is only what's there when darkness is not? Darkness can break light. Look at black holes. Besides, you can have darkness without light, but you can't have light without darkness. OMG LOGIC PUZZLE. Anyway, I think you're being confused through the psychological concept of figure and ground. =D It's like all those black and white drawings, where there's an image in the white space, but if you unfocus yourself, you realize you can also see an image in the negative space, BUT you can't see both at the same time.

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Hence there is no evil or good without religion.


Agreed, BUT scientists are beginning to discover that we have been hardwired certain "ethics." It's why murder causes revulsion in most of us. Soldiers who have been to war eventually dull themselves to the sight of killing every day, but they come back with POST and loads of psychological problems. That's all I have to say.
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Regalar
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Grade Schooler
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Since I suppose you are wanting everyone's opinion, why not throw mine into the ring :).
Evil is defined by God, and is shown through your conscience which is acutally the Holy Spirit working within you to convict you. I'm not saying that you can't have a conditioned response to other things that God does not say are evil but your society has deemed as such. Certain things (murder, theft etc.) are, as someoen else stated, hardwired in via the power of the Holy Spirit.
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