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Suicide; Your opinion?
Topic Started: May 22 2006, 10:53 PM (2,572 Views)
aigu92
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Alucard,Feb 4 2008
12:22 AM
1. I move better when I don't have to focus on grammar. Take my eye off an idea for one second and it's gone

2. Pain can rarely be properly avoided. It's inevitable by it's basic nature

3. Life is amazing... by a few people's standards

3.the depression being unable to help doesn't say much. Some people can't avoid it. They have to lapse into a state of pure unhappiness. If they didn't, they'd be lacking many emotional, human traits. Traits that people need to enjoy life.

4.Funny thing, that. People have this inherent inability ti accept failure... of other people.

for whatever reason, weakness and inability seems to be the first thing people see at all times. People punish other people for showing their human flaw. People hear "weak", they dismiss it

Much like how no guy walks up to you and starts talking about that bet he lost last week.

Humans are like that. Holding up a barrier of pseudo perfection.

So no, it's not weak to wish death on yourself. It's human.

anyway, look at Furu's post. It's a good outlook on the subject

PS:I'm not particularly for suicide, as a matter of personal pride (like I said above, people always boo weakness, me included). Even still, talking for the opposing side is better for understanding it

1. Makes sense, I guess. But I'm too obsessed with grammar to not squelch every time I witness a sentence not being started with a capital! :woah:

2. Of course not all pain can be avoided, but one can make an effort to wash away some of their pain. Pain is indeed inevitable, but that does not mean it has to be abundant.

3. For the few people who it is not amazing for, they are either not trying to make life amazing or they are "trapped" in a situation where they can't make life satisfying. For example, the people being raped and tortured in Darfur can't escape due to lack of money. But people who have no friends and are depressed by this fact, are not trying hard enough. You can make friends in more ways than one.

3. (You used three twice, btw. ^_^ ) How many people do you think commit suicide because of depression? Let's just say a lot. If everyone experienced such a severe state of unhappiness, the world wouldn't be so immensely populated.

4. It's not human to wish death upon yourself. That insinuates that it is perfectly normal. Being suicidal is an official mental disorder, and depressed people are even prescribed medicine for their symptoms. So maybe wishing death upon oneself ain't so normal after all.
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Alucard
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sometimes pain is abundant against your will. If that's the case, where to go?

Also people who're apathetic by nature likely don't care for life. Telling them to enjoy it goes nowhere. It's a group of people's standards.

Like a free cotton candy when you hate sweet things.

as for the double three, I'll put it differently.

When people are hurt, they say 'Ouch'. That's what people do.

But some guys maybe have a resistance to small pain (there's training for that), or their endurance is extra high. They don't need to say 'Ouch' quite as loudly.

Well, the world's not as thick-skinned as those guys. If it were, we'd be less human. That same nervous system causes us happiness just as well as pain.

So if someone were poked with a toothpick, and they say 'ouch', is it okay to ask them "What'd ya go and say ouch for?"

if someone is gripped in emotional suffering, telling them to cheer up is actually kinda cruel.

One more thing.

I have philosophy about people in their coldness to others.

For whatever reason, people tell other people things like "What've you got to complain about?".

that's wrong.

No matter what, telling people how to think doesn't help them (though that can be the intention). The fact is, Everyone has feelings. Saying things like "Don't be so sad, you aint got any real problems" is basically denying that they should be feeling what they feel right now. In a sense, it's denying them a human right. You're basically forcing your beliefs on them (from your shallow perception).

No matter what happens, a feeling is never wrong to have. Everybody has a right to be happy or feel sad about the things in their life. Telling them otherwise is mental abuse.

It's a part of what breeds suicidal thoughts (momentum much?).

they say to themselves "What the heck am I feeling so sad about? There's nothing wrong with this picture. I'm so silly. I'll just have to try a little harder. How stupid of me".

That's how it works. They never do ask themselves "Maybe there is something wrong with this picture?" They'll never do that. They'll always just suppress it and put on a smile to please everybody else.

So that the family portrait looks nice (never must a frown be present in a picture. People shun that).

Eventually they'll start feeling guilty about it. They'll call themselves selfish for feeling this way. To them, it's a bunch of rotten, ugly feelings that they should get rid of.

If you see a picture of a starving kid in some third world country and it makes you depressed out of sympathy, don't say it's not a good reason to get depressed. EVERY REASON is good enough to make you depressed. Just as every reason is good enough get happy about. It's a legitimate feeling. You can't deny that it's there or say it shouldn't be. Just let it be (it's unhealthy to do otherwise)

so yeah. I'd be more worried for a guy if he doesn't start getting suicidal in a painful situation.

He has feelings. That's all
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aigu92
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Alucard,Feb 4 2008
07:34 PM
sometimes pain is abundant against your will. If that's the case, where to go?

Also people who're apathetic by nature likely don't care for life. Telling them to enjoy it goes nowhere. It's a group of people's standards.

Like a free cotton candy when you hate sweet things.

as for the double three, I'll put it differently.

When people are hurt, they say 'Ouch'. That's what people do.

But some guys maybe have a resistance to small pain (there's training for that), or their endurance is extra high. They don't need to say 'Ouch' quite as loudly.

Well, the world's not as thick-skinned as those guys. If it were, we'd be less human. That same nervous system causes us happiness just as well as pain.

So if someone were poked with a toothpick, and they say 'ouch', is it okay to ask them "What'd ya go and say ouch for?"

if someone is gripped in emotional suffering, telling them to cheer up is actually kinda cruel.

One more thing.

I have philosophy about people in their coldness to others.

For whatever reason, people tell other people things like "What've you got to complain about?".

that's wrong.

No matter what, telling people how to think doesn't help them (though that can be the intention). The fact is, Everyone has feelings. Saying things like "Don't be so sad, you aint got any real problems" is basically denying that they should be feeling what they feel right now. In a sense, it's denying them a human right. You're basically forcing your beliefs on them (from your shallow perception).

No matter what happens, a feeling is never wrong to have. Everybody has a right to be happy or feel sad about the things in their life. Telling them otherwise is mental abuse.

It's a part of what breeds suicidal thoughts (momentum much?).

they say to themselves "What the heck am I feeling so sad about? There's nothing wrong with this picture. I'm so silly. I'll just have to try a little harder. How stupid of me".

That's how it works. They never do ask themselves "Maybe there is something wrong with this picture?" They'll never do that. They'll always just suppress it and put on a smile to please everybody else.

So that the family portrait looks nice (never must a frown be present in a picture. People shun that).

Eventually they'll start feeling guilty about it. They'll call themselves selfish for feeling this way. To them, it's a bunch of rotten, ugly feelings that they should get rid of.

If you see a picture of a starving kid in some third world country and it makes you depressed out of sympathy, don't say it's not a good reason to get depressed. EVERY REASON is good enough to make you depressed. Just as every reason is good enough get happy about. It's a legitimate feeling. You can't deny that it's there or say it shouldn't be. Just let it be (it's unhealthy to do otherwise)

so yeah. I'd be more worried for a guy if he doesn't start getting suicidal in a painful situation.

He has feelings. That's all

Oh, come on. Don't call me shallow 'cuz of my beliefs. Just 'cuz you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to insult me. Be more mature, please. We don't want you going all psycho like last time. No one wants that.

And I'm not saying they should supress their feelings. I never said that. It's funny how you wrote a whole essay about how people shouldn't supress their feelings when I agree with that. Kinda a waste of time for you. ^_^ Sorry.

I don't think people should supress their sad feelings. Not at all. I'm more talking about people who don't try in life and are depressed due to that. They shouldn't pretend to not be sad, but they should become happy. They should get out in life and be involved in activities that will make them get over their troubles.

And you always say that I'm "forcing my beliefs" on others. This is not true and you don't have to say it repeatedly. Just because I state my opinions doesn't mean I'm mandating anyone follow them. Philosophy is always a suggestion, never a demand. I thought of all people, you would know that.
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Alucard
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I'm not calling you shallow per se. More or less using you as a personification of what people think

it' the philosophy term "We're all in this together"

in a sense, I'm talking to all.

Also, in the 'essay' I said that people must say 'ouch'. They have to or it'll go nowhere. But sometimes, external forces make it harder for them. I say, make it as easy as possible when trying to help them. Saying "Cheer up" doesn't help. Sometimes, becoming happy isn't that easy, so it's best to at least not force happiness on them. Not everyone on this earth is that strong.

Anyway, Like I said, I'm half-talking to you, and half-talking to everyone else. Some people force their beliefs without realizing it

Saying things like "democracy works", "You get mad too easily. You need to work on that", "Families should care for each other" and "jaywalking is bad"

Most of the time, they're trying to help you, but it's those subtle hints that people make that have an air of demanding in them.

A very blunt, forward person to say it outright. They know better than anyone else, so they'll impart this on others.

A Skeptic Philosopher on the other hand. This guy is the type who doubts most ideas simply to learn more and never ground himself anywhere. This expands entire worlds of knowledge. A Skeptic Philosopher assumes nothing. He's quick to doubt and slow to accept. Because of it all, he becomes truly aware of his own flaw and how little he does know.

Basically, it's possible to force an idea without realizing it. Not so much a bad thing. It's in human nature (parenting kids for example)

That's what I meant (nothing directed at you)

PS:Philosophy is ripe with "insult". Not just misunderstandings either. It's because gently proving another person's idea wrong isn't easy. Anything can be an insult
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aigu92
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Alucard,Feb 4 2008
08:27 PM
I'm not calling you shallow per se. More or less using you as a personification of what people think

it' the philosophy term "We're all in this together"

in a sense, I'm talking to all.

Also, in the 'essay' I said that people must say 'ouch'. They have to or it'll go nowhere. But sometimes, external forces make it harder for them. I say, make it as easy as possible when trying to help them. Saying "Cheer up" doesn't help. Sometimes, becoming happy isn't that easy, so it's best to at least not force happiness on them. Not everyone on this earth is that strong.

Anyway, Like I said, I'm half-talking to you, and half-talking to everyone else. Some people force their beliefs without realizing it

Saying things like "democracy works", "You get mad too easily. You need to work on that", "Families should care for each other" and "jaywalking is bad"

Most of the time, they're trying to help you, but it's those subtle hints that people make that have an air of demanding in them.

A very blunt, forward person to say it outright. They know better than anyone else, so they'll impart this on others.

A Skeptic Philosopher on the other hand. This guy is the type who doubts most ideas simply to learn more and never ground himself anywhere. This expands entire worlds of knowledge. A Skeptic Philosopher assumes nothing. He's quick to doubt and slow to accept. Because of it all, he becomes truly aware of his own flaw and how little he does know.

Basically, it's possible to force an idea without realizing it. Not so much a bad thing. It's in human nature (parenting kids for example)

That's what I meant (nothing directed at you)

PS:Philosophy is ripe with "insult". Not just misunderstandings either. It's because gently proving another person's idea wrong isn't easy. Anything can be an insult

Well, I guess I was kinda thrown off when you said, "from your shallow perception." But I'll let it go.

Quote:
 
Saying things like "democracy works", "You get mad too easily. You need to work on that", "Families should care for each other" and "jaywalking is bad"

And there's nothing wrong with saying any of those things. It'd be too annoying if everyone had to talk like "In my opinion, jaywalking is not the greatest thing in the world and people who do it might want to not but it is their decision and I respect." That would be so annoying. I'd hate people like that. And you take like the "democracy works" thing all the time. I quote "They have to or it'll go nowhere." "People tell other people things like "What've you got to complain about?" "Now respond without using evaluative language." There's nothing wrong with any of those things you said. Why would you think so? I don't understand. Avoiding saying stuff like that would be tedious and pointless.
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Alucard
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I think forwardness is a part of what makes people dislike eachother. It can create bad realationships between people, and isn't all that great for building them either.

If people would say "In my opinion, jaywalking is not the greatest thing in the world and people who do it might want to not but it is their decision and I respect.", then who knows. We may start to understand eachother better.

I think that that understanding can prevent suicide.
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Mero
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im not arguing or choosing a side.. i just want to say

r.i.p. daniel

since this is the right place to put it
rest in peace, buddy
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aigu92
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Alucard,Feb 4 2008
08:58 PM
I think forwardness is a part of what makes people dislike eachother. It can create bad realationships between people, and isn't all that great for building them either.

If people would say "In my opinion, jaywalking is not the greatest thing in the world and people who do it might want to not but it is their decision and I respect.", then who knows. We may start to understand eachother better.

I think that that understanding can prevent suicide.

Yeah, but saying that would be painfully annoying and far too politically correct. And I hate political correctness. I'm a speak-your-mind kinda gal. ^_^

And mero, who's Daniel?
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Traingham
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I've had more than one friend just flat out tell me that they're going to commit suicide the very day they spoke to me, but they usually back out. I've seen the scars on their wrists and such, but every time I look back on it I wonder if they either just wanted the attention of someone close or rather just backed out from fear of actually carrying out the deed.

I'll admit that in hard stressful times the thought has crossed my mind, but it's never reached me so strongly that I'd actually come close to doing it. I feel as though I've failed myself somewhere whenever I contemplate such things, and I get disgusted.

I personally feel that suicide is for the weak of heart, however, we all see life differently and have different experiences. Some experiences may be too extreme while with others we can simply roll along with the punches. I guess it depends on lifestyle and belief.

...I hope my thoughts were clear on that. :scratch:
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Mero
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a friend i lost 4 years ago to suicide
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Yuki
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Everyone's view on this is different, for sure.

...
Furu, you are the sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful person on this forum and I absolutely love you to bits. DDDDD;
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Alucard
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aigu92,Feb 4 2008
07:05 PM
Alucard,Feb 4 2008
08:58 PM
I think forwardness is a part of what makes people dislike eachother. It can create bad realationships between people, and isn't all that great for building them either.

If people would say "In my opinion, jaywalking is not the greatest thing in the world and people who do it might want to not but it is their decision and I respect.", then who knows. We may start to understand eachother better.

I think that that understanding can prevent suicide.

Yeah, but saying that would be painfully annoying and far too politically correct. And I hate political correctness. I'm a speak-your-mind kinda gal. ^_^

And mero, who's Daniel?

That should suit you fine.

Take note though
Quote:
 
Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term used to describe language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to racial, cultural, or other identity groups. Conversely, the term politically incorrect is used to refer to language or ideas that may cause offense or that are unconstrained by orthodoxy.

basically, you could offend somebody.

Then there's this side.

@Traingham:It's not bad to be weak. If you're stronger than someone, they never managed to get as strong as you.
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aigu92
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Alucard,Feb 4 2008
10:49 PM
aigu92,Feb 4 2008
07:05 PM
Alucard,Feb 4 2008
08:58 PM
I think forwardness is a part of what makes people dislike eachother. It can create bad realationships between people, and isn't all that great for building them either.

If people would say "In my opinion, jaywalking is not the greatest thing in the world and people who do it might want to not but it is their decision and I respect.", then who knows. We may start to understand eachother better.

I think that that understanding can prevent suicide.

Yeah, but saying that would be painfully annoying and far too politically correct. And I hate political correctness. I'm a speak-your-mind kinda gal. ^_^

And mero, who's Daniel?

That should suit you fine.

Take note though

basically, you could offend somebody.

Then there's this side.

@Traingham:It's not bad to be weak. If you're stronger than someone, they never managed to get as strong as you.

Well, I'm a hard-core conservative. (They are politically incorrect and for censorship.) That means we don't actually think what we say will offend others. For example, liberals (who are politically correct) will say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas because they "might offend a Jewish person." Us conservatives aren't full of baloney, tho'. We know they wouldn't be offended or insulted, if it was an honest mistake. If a Jewish person wished me Happy Hanukkah, I wouldn't be upset. I'd smile and return the greeting. People who would be offended are shallow and close-minded. They would react some what like this: Did you just say Merry Xmas to me? *gasp! :woah: * How dare you in any way insinuate that I am in any way associated with that horrid religion called Christianity!
People like that deserve to be offended, imo, anyway.
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Alucard
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this is for another disgussion - It's off-topic.

but there is no topic like this anywhere... (if you like, go start one)
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cloven_hoof74
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I have the right to choose what clothes Im going to wear.Will I show up for work today?If Not is that selfish?IN My Country mothers have the legal right to end their childs life.SOme States have the legal right to end the life of a criminal.I have the right to end the life of someone who is attempting to end mine.And I have the right to end my life.Whos life is it?THe states?THe federal government?Questions of wheather or not it is a selfish act really are moot.Ending human life has always been a narural part of history.Oh sure we call it different names~~murder,War,abortion,suicide.We have gas chambers and electric chairs,hand guns,rifels,machine guns,Lethal injection,Stealth bombers,War ships,grenades,hydrogent bombs,nuclean warheads,all for the purspose of ending human life.Who makes the desicion when ending human life is legal or "Right"?THe powers that be?A judge? a 15 year old unwed mother to be?My life belogns to me.
John
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