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Loli Fanservice Lovers; Pedo, or not pedo?
Topic Started: Nov 13 2007, 06:14 PM (2,250 Views)
Jollepoker
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Yue <3
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Well, I picked up some new animes (well, one of them is new anyway), called "Moetan" and "Kodomo No Jikan". These had loli stamped all over them (Which... kind of was the reason I picked them up, lulz XD)

So, while reading some comments about the first episodes of both series, I noticed lots of comments like:

"OH GOD, LOLI FANSERVICE, I SAW HALF THE EP AND THEN TURNED THE SHIT OFF"

"If you like this anime, you are a sick pedo and you need to think about your future"

etc. (And yes, these are comments for the (you'll undersand better if you watch Kodomo no Jikan) extremly censored TV versions. I mean... they even censored the word "virgin")

Now... I don't consider myself pedo, but it got me thinking why I enjoy watching loli anime. Sometimes (Well, actuly... More then "sometimes") even more then "normal" anime.

This IS actuly something you could call pedo, but I really think its something else behind it. And I belive that, that something is what the japanese people would describe as "moe".

Yes, thats right, moe.

Many others and myself watch loli anime not because some of the lolis act hentai-ish, but because they are cuter then normal anime girls. And by cuter it can be anything that lolis has that "normal people" don't have. Like; They are short, they have bigger eyes and etc (Ofc, people like diffrent stuff >_>)

My theory is this; Everyone likes loli, even the dudes that write "OH GOD PERVS". If these people saw something awesome, but had loli-fanservice in it, they would turn it off right away, however... If they read somewhere; "They are actuly 18 years old", they would start to watch it again. Why? Because, no matter how young the character looks, giving them a mature age completly destroys the "I'm a pedo" feeling. These people are actuly afraid of being called pedo, but will watch loli if they get a reason to (I.E age), because its cute.

An example that puts some more strength into my theory is Lucky Star. Just because the characters there are small (Thinking about Konata for example), they are considerd loli. They are also considerd moe for the same reason. Everyone completly ignores the facts they actuly are 17-18 years old, except some people that tells us "but omg, they look loli". But even these people are willing to give the serie a chance if someone tells them the serie is awesome.

Ofc, everyone has a limit, my limit goes somewhere along the lines of Kodomo no Jikan, possibly a little bit futher. For instance, I would never play a loli-hentai game just because its loli. However, I could consider to watch a loli anime you can see "upper-half private parts" (a.ka Moetan DVD rips and Elfen Lied).

I wouldn't like to call Lolihentai for pedo either. Well... yeah, actuly I would. If the loli is/looks like a baby. People watch/play loli because its moe. Well yeah, some are diffrent, I know... But that doesn't mean all are, am I right? Because if I'm wrong, that means that every loliwatcher out there is pedo, which means that the number of anime-pedos would be as many, if not more as Sweden's population.

Or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe every loliwatcher actuly has a hidden pedo-side to them?

What do you think about Loli Fanservice and Pedos? Share your thoughts!

Oh god, long post is long; so lets make a short version:

Loli Fanservice Lovers = Pedo. Y/N?
The so called "Pedos" might not think in a pedo-ish way, but in a "omg its moe way"

(Hopes that people won't think about me in a pedo-ish way after writing this, it simply came to my mind after reading a certain persons post on a certain forum, thats all.)
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UnNegi-relatedname
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Hell ya it's pedophilia.

~Proud Pedophile
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Victor Delacroix
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Wow O:

Personally, loli does not float my boat. D: Several of my moe characters may be considered loli by some (Eve from Black Cat, Eva from Negima, Artemis from Moonphase), but I'm not into loli as a whole. For example, I am NEVER going to watch Kodomo No Jikan.
Just. No. D: Do not want. D:

In short, I'm not a loli fan, but I am a fan of certain lolis.

IRLZ, I hate young children, so this contributes alot to my dislike of loli, even with the moe art styles. Here's an example: Hinaichigo from Rozen Maiden. yeah, she's a doll, but is very loli in appearence and demeanor.

And I DESPISE her. GOD SHE WON'T SHUT THE FUCK UP

So yeah. >> No loli for me, kthxbai
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thousand-mistress
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Would it be wrong if I said I love Loli?
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jiz
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About time you got into Kodomo no Jikan.

I suggest reading the manga. The anime totally ruins it with the censors and they take out the really good heart warming moments.

Personally, despite KnJ being totally lolicon, I really love the story. It's actually rather sad once you get into the later chapters :( A few chapters were real tear jerkers for me D; Once you read those chapters, you'll probably be hooked in like me D; I have a huge feeling the anime won't be able to execute those parts well like in the manga, which is why I just totally dropped the anime.

I try to stay away from most lolicon anime unless there's yuri in it lulz *that's the reason why I picked up KnJ* Lesbian acts between 3rd graders? What the hell am I smoking? But when you take into account that my first crush was on a girl when I was liek 6, ain't that crazy to me.

If there's no kind of plot to it and it's all just like smut and fanservice, then I stay away from it p:
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-[-Book of Mages-]-
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I'm on episode 3 of Kodomo no Jikan....D:

I don't think I can be a pedo, so liek yha, fine for me to watch it. >___>

xDDD
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Rark
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Interesting point on this (kinda) it is illegal to own any depictions of underage children in possible sexual depiction. INCLUDING, drawings and artwork. So technically, it's jail time up here for real loli things :P

What I think on it is that it is, at it's very base, quite pedo. It's classification of being "moe" basically means something that's really dirty, with a clean coating to make it okay. To continue with the Lucky Star example, any of them do something erotic, it's a pedo's dream, but really, they're of legal age, so it's been designed to catch the loli folk (both of the good and....questionable) fanbase. I, personally, don't care what goes on visually if the story's solid. I'm not a fan of seeing some really young girls go and get all clit to cunt(to be blunt and quite crude), in fact, not see anything like that, but if there's just some cute girl who's just childish (Konota comes to mind, Ku Fei too for some reason.....) then what's the harm?

Also, I think this fourm is the wrong place to discuss something like this, since we're all quite Effed in the head :P
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Gafgar Adolis
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Posted Image
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Victor Delacroix
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Gafgar Adolis,Nov 14 2007
07:54 AM
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I totally would've done that had I not some interests to justify.
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Jollepoker
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Actuly, I read Kodomo No Jikan manga... Thats why I picked up the anime, lulz XD (Story owns, yeah XD)

Oh yeah, heard they will remove all the censors as they did with the OVA when the DVD versions comes out, yay XD

@TM
No, it wouldn't (to me anyway) (I already kind of knew it anyway :P)

Maybe we should rename Pedobear "Moebear"? XD

Also Rark has a point, however... If its stupid to take this thing up on this forum because the members here are... uhh XD XD XD <3. Its probably stupid to put it up on any other forum too... (Its the internet after all)
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Askalot
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*Downloding stuff before stating opinion:*
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´Silas
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Funny that you mention Kodomo No Jikan, a friend of mine linked me to it, and I kinda got hooked by the story. I have read the manga, but I truly hope I didn't finish it, then I totally dislike the ending :P I've read until chapter 29.

And I was faced with a dilemma, because I'm not just stronly against pedophilia of any kind, it's utterly despicable imo. However, and don't misunderstand me here, many of the pictures that some lolicon people consider hot, I like as well, because I think the girls are cute. I've had a long discussion with a friend of mine, about whether "cute = hot/bangable", and he said that it's always like that, but I disagreed fully. For instance in KnJ the girls are awfully cute, and I did get hooked by the story.

Some parts of the manga were too much for me however, I've never had problems with nudity, I don't really care, because it's not arousing for me to see small kids run around naked anyway. And whenever people censor it, it serves as a reminder to me that some people would consider this pornographic, because they find sexual excitement in it, and that kinda freaks me out. But for instance the "I want breasts" part, that kinda freaked me out. But the general story was interesting, because to me it was about setting boundaries for children, and being able to distinguish between love between adults and children, and adult and adult.

In my book, it's pedophilia when the parts in the manga that are loli fanservice, in your mind becomes something you sexually relate to, or if the intention with doing it was "arousment" (I didn't bother looking up the real word) through children. So I mean, a manga like that, that's kinda in a grey zone, is in nature acceptable. Because it's like, having pictures of your small children at the beach, where they are running around naked. If someone published that, it wouldn't necessarily be pedophilic material, however, if it had pedophilic intentions, the author is a pedophilian imo.

And yes, I do consider lolicon = pedophilia. Drawn or real-life, you're not turned on by guys from an anime, if you're not turned on by them in real life. And the difference when it comes to children, is whether you find them cute and sweet, or hot. Where I'd say nr. 1 is perfectly normal, and nr. 2, get help!
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Alucard
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Jolle, my personal opinion is that there's no such a thing as perfect 100%(well, at least in our small world)

it's up to us humans to control that 50/50 to make it a 90/10

I imagine there's a small kernal of lolicon in the attitude of the fans, but in your case, mostly straightforward cuteness (everybody thinks little Konoka and Setsuna are cute together :nod:)

if it's just the tiniest hint, it's probably nothing to worry about(of course, a fundamentalist type would tell you that 1% was evil...)
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Gafgar Adolis
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The problem with deciding whether or not an anime or manga contains something akin to child porn is that all too often a girl in an anime or manga may look a certain age, but be far older (or younger). Negima alone is proof of this - Evangeline looks decisively young, but is in fact a several hundred year old vampire. Deciding whether or not she's legal would probably drive a jury to insanity (which is good, as jury-based legal systems suck). On the other hand, Mana, Kaede, and many other Negima girls all look far older than they actually are.

There's also the different view on maturity Japan has to consider - the age of consent in Japan is officially fourteen, though most prefectures have introduced measures to raise it to fifteen or sixteen. This is due to the fact that children in Japan have historically been considered adults far younger than they have in western countries. Take a look at all the thirteen year-old sons of samurai who marched into battle alongside their fathers and compare that to the US, where teenagers have arbitrarily been deemed "childish" and have little to no rights until they reach the age of eighteen, which has also seemingly been determined at random. Furthermore, even though an eighteen year-old is able to smoke, vote, or go to war, they still can't drink until the age of twenty-one. On the other end of the spectrum, twelve is the legal age of consent in the Netherlands, and there has been a strong movement in the Dutch government to lower it further.

In the end the answer is blurred by different views on maturity, both cultural and legal. In my opinion, lolicon is only pedophilia (which thing I hate) when the girl in question is explicitly stated to be of a very young age and explicitly engages in sexual acts. Just looking underage means nothing.
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Rark
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Side note, age of consent in Ontario (maybe all of Canada) is 12. Isn't that luzy?
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