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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 5 2010, 04:56 AM (4,254 Views) | |
| Arthotus | May 3 2011, 08:28 AM Post #226 |
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Oh so PE bonuses Do apply to the Save Vs Soul burn? I'm confused then. Why do I need to save if I loose PE and feel the pain of soul burning fire regardless? Seems kind of moot to save. |
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| Beowulf | May 3 2011, 09:27 AM Post #227 |
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Canadian Ninja
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Ability designer's note: Soul burn is kind of different from normal damage. You play Pokemon, yes? You hit a pokemon with a flame attack, they take damage, but there is a chance they will also get "burned" and take residual damage for a few turns thereafter. That is what a "soulburn" is, your soul is literally smouldering away until it cools down or you die. You are not saving against pain or damage, you are saving against soulburn, a potential after effect of the attack. So yeah, add your PE bonus, but keep track of the fact that it is lower after every attack. As PE drops, so does everything else it is attached to (PE bonus, base PPE, base HP). I'm not sure if Lunar changed it at all, but the save I designed was set at 10 or higher, and the save was to be rolled after PE was subtracted. Even normal humans should have a 50% chance of saving until their PE dropped below 7 (where penalties for low attributes kick in according to RUE, if we're using those rules). I also suggested there should be a save VS. pain, not just instant paralyzing pain, but that may have been changed as well. The ability was also supposed to do more damage to creatures of an evil alignment (they have "dry" and easily flammable souls) and less damage to characters of a good alignment. Lunar may have eliminated this for simplicity's sake (math gets complicated). Anyway, if you fail to save then you get a whole smattering of nasty side effects caused by extreme pain. PS. As a note, the PE lost can be regained, but not by something as simple as medical recovery or rest and sleep. Exactly how it can be regained is up to the GM, but it is not necessarily permanent, and may or may not be easy to do. It would require some kind of special assistance to repair one's soul. The point is, there is potential for the soul and PPE to return to full strength and if your character survives he is not necessarily trash for having lost some of his crazy high PE. He will have something to work towards as an individual, beyond simply being a lap dog. That clear things up? I sent Lunar a sheet containing a lot of stats, as well as some options and suggestions. Not sure what all he changed, but it was fun to work on the attack. Scaerie, read Death Armor and Death Tongue. They are a lot more fun than just straight fireballs. PPS. Biting my nails to see what Asv's about to do, and to whom... I have the felling someone's going to get hurt real bad... Kira won't stop it though, as he said, the two of them have free reign to do as they please at this point. Edited by Beowulf, May 3 2011, 09:57 AM.
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| Arthotus | May 3 2011, 11:40 AM Post #228 |
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No my character won't be TRASH after a reduction in PE. It's just perplexing that I'm loosing PE for what I thought was permanently. In my mind, it makes fighting Infaeri absolutely no fun. Not even a little. Everytime I get hit I lose PE? So If I get hit 30+times by Scaerie, Period end, I die. No chance to retreat and heal, no maybe come back and fight her later, no repeat appearances. 30 hits. Done. And that's because I have Extraordinary PE as one of my super powers. As anyone who doesn't have an obnoxious amount of PE, you get 10 chances(if it takes 1 Pe a pop I dunno why it was 2 and then 1), maybe less! No recurring Villains(or in this case Heroes), and any that do come back are Hopelessly crippled and scarred and on life support systems. This is a cool power. Not gonna lie. It's really cool for say, a novel, a movie or maybe (I say this lightly) even Comic books, but not part of a game. It might even work as a short, one time and/or highly limited in application and use, where you need to aviod her because she's F%&*ing insanely powerful for a short period of time and getting hit means getting scarred and permanently reduced in power for life. But since the power is permanent and can be used on a whim, I have to Officially and Completely object to such a power. It's completely unbalanced with everything currently portrayed in the system we're using! Even the RIFTS characters. Especially if the loss is Permanent(Insanely powerful or specific magical counter healing aside). I would probably even choke back my objection if the save allowed you NOT to lose PE. But no, the PE loss is BEFORE save, not after. The damage is a joke. Who cares what damage it does! It's draining PE! Why does it even DO damage? I thought it was supposed to 'burn the soul' and it's not actually even fire at all? Wouldn't that mean it doesn't do damage to objects? And If it didn't do damage to objects, wouldn't that mean it's affecting someones soul and aura, which by the normal standards of EVERY palladium system out there, you get to save. And the permanence! I wouldn't mind if it lasted days, even weeks! I might even be ok with a month or two. but Permanent? Again I just CAN'T get over this power. It's cruel and unfair to anyone who wanted to play any kind of combat game. I mean imagine any combat video game(EVER!) where you have a life bar or life points of something like that. Legend of Zelda, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Ratchet and Clank, Anything! Imagine if there was a creature in that game which could permanently reduce you MAXIMUM health, with no way to get it back. Now put that creature as a boss battle. Not the final boss, just a random boss in the middle. Even if you manage to kill the thing and the reduction per hit is relatively minor, Guess what? If you didn't smoosh the BOSS in one hit, You're screwed for the rest of the game because you now have probably less health than when you started it. The fun of a super hero game is supposed to be rumbles between super powered foes, whole city blocks being torn apart in the process, entire platoons of army soldiers being unable to contain the conflicts. Climactic battles between good and evil, intrigue, plotting, damsels in distress, heroism, Moral dilemmas, the list goes on! The real fun is that it's never really permanent and it all happens again next week! But when you boil it all down, nothing really sticks and everything is constantly in motion, the bad guy gets away or escapes from jail to haunt the hero another day, the hero just manages to survive the evil super weapon of death and chases down the villain, and on and on. Nothing is ever OVER and there's always another conflict right around the corner. (mildly tired breathing) Now. What have you two(Lunar and Beo) to say for yourselves? Anyway to alleviate my frustrations or concerns? Arguments? I'd love to hear them. |
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| Lunarmage | May 3 2011, 11:53 AM Post #229 |
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I stand by the power, regardless of how you may feel. Both Beowulf and Infaeri are enjoying the game, I am sure that Vio is as well. There are powerups for everyone that I have in mind. 22 and Fal (if he survives) have things coming to them, in fact I already gave Fal something, that should he get a chance to use it will make him better than a walking tank. There are ideas I have for 22 as well, but I WILL NOT just give these things away. Hel now pretty much OWNS Infaeri whether she knows it or not. As Beo said, there may be ways to regain your lost PE. I have already spoken to him about what it does to Immortals, 22 has both Extraordinary PE and Healing Factor.. he may be able to recover that lost PE. This power is powerful because I am planning on bringing in DEMONS. Not piddly little sub-demons, but full blown, scare the shit out of you lesser and greater demons. (yes there will be sub-demons, but really with the characters present, they really don't matter). Everyone will get their just desserts, trust me. |
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| Arthotus | May 3 2011, 12:35 PM Post #230 |
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You've never played an NGR game have you? Sub demon's are powerful too. What do you mean you won't just give them away? Infaeri literally got hers from striking up a conversation with a random person in that church. Beo got both his super weapons from his back story. How is that not being given away? Is there a secret skill testing question you're giving people over Pm because I'm missing something otherwise. It's still entirely out of wack with anything else in the current system. Nothing can really come close to matching that power as a devastating weapon. Not in terms of damage obviously, but as I said, even supernatural creatures only have so much PE. The only thing that is as outrageously unfair and all powerful is Phase weaponry, but that's a technology and thereby usable by anyone. Even then it affects HP and SDC, which are recoverable. I'm also a little confused. Why do we need power ups? It's not as if a combat superhero couldn't go toe to toe with a demon. They might be at a slight disadvantage against GREATER demons, but lesser and most subs could be good fight. Hell, I know damage for damage, 22 could definitely take a Balrog. He's even got wings to fight the thing in the air(with a faster top speed i should point out), and even takes half damage from fire! A Balrog's specialty is using Fire elemental spells. See? Superheroes out of the book are already equipped to fight Demons. Why do we need SUPER super powers? Another curious thing that made my eyebrow twitch, was that why are 22 and Fal allowed to be killed off without much thought, but Infaeri was off limits. Post #42 of this very thread. Have these rules changed? |
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| 13ghosts | May 3 2011, 12:35 PM Post #231 |
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The only thing I'm milldly bitter about is I wasn't allowed to kill Infaeri... And now she's killing me. -looks to Scearie- trade that get out jail free card back? XD EDIT lol looks like arty beat me to that one. Edited by 13ghosts, May 3 2011, 12:37 PM.
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| Lunarmage | May 3 2011, 12:40 PM Post #232 |
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GM SPEAK If you don't like how I am doing things, leave. I have made my point and you continue to argue. So far the only people bitching about how I am doing things are the ones who are on the other side of things. So either put up, or shut up. |
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| 13ghosts | May 3 2011, 12:50 PM Post #233 |
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LOL, GM speak XD -imagines big booming voice- I'm assuming since you used plural you saw my comment. |
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| Arthotus | May 3 2011, 12:56 PM Post #234 |
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Yes I am b%^&#ing, but I am asking a couple serious questions. Mostly I just needed to vent. |
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| Beowulf | May 4 2011, 04:07 AM Post #235 |
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Honestly, I'd tend to think a healing factor would have a direct effect on PE recovery, but that's up to the GM. This is not necessarily permanent. I understand that it's frustrating, I'm actually a little scare for Kira ATM, I like the character. I back the power. it is overpowered and unbalanced, but Scaerie's just been the first one to get her "overpowered and unbalanced" power. She sold Inferi's soul to do it, and I'm betting that's going to bite her in the but eventually. Kira thinks she's an idiot for doing it, regardless of how powerful she is now. And yes, this power can even kill Kira. It's THAT POWERFUL. Kira's recovery will even be incredibly slow if there's nothing assisted. Immortals have great recouperative abilities, but Lunar told me that he'd only get back something like 1-2 PE per year. Ouch, I'll stear clear of taht fire as best I can, and seek out special help healing otherwise. The power does a minimum of 1 PE per hit, stronger hits can take out more PE (not likely more than 2 PE unless it's a high crit). Note that most fights in this system don't tend to last 30 hits before someone's dead (at least not in my games), so this power doesn't actually kill you faster than normal combat. As far as needing this power, if I were lunar, and I was playing a minion wars campaign, I'd probably have some extra beefy non-canon demons on the way. As for "why does it do damage", the best answer is, because it does damage. That's how it was designed. the damage is pretty piddley, but it still hurts, that's just the nature of the attack in universe, small damage to go along with a NASTY debuff. The debuff of PE actually relies on how much physical damage is done, they are directly related. Anyway, I hope you guys stick around, but you appear to be pissed off (Art anyway, 13 seems pretty chill for not even being able to control the fate of his character at this point, props for the chill ness, you're taking this really well). You being pissed off is pissing Lunar off. I'm not pissed, but I'm not in the middle of it. I'm sorry that both of you are frustrated with each other. It sucks, but lets resolve this combat and move on. If 22 dies, you could (in theory) roll up a 22 V2, 22 being the beta for the actual genetically engineered model. A more powerful but similar character. Just a suggestion. No need to bring 22 back to life, just make a bigger nastier 22, one that's even more ready for the minion wars. Heck, he could even have 22's memories once 22 dies, but be a highbrid of both sets of memories. Then he could go and hunt down 22's killers and take revenge. Do it secretly with Lunar (just like how we planned this ambush). Nasty! and I think that could be a ton of fun. Just a suggestion. Likewise, Fal could have backup clones of himself, he is after all a super techy genius, right? Why wouldn't he have a backup? Once again, Lunar's call, but I think something like that would be totally appropriate (and fun), and then our characters wouldn't know about it while your characters had all the time they wanted to plan and exact their revenge. Go ahead and discuss it if you want. This is like a comic book, death doesn't have to be permanent. There are more ways around death than just bringing the normal body back. Yes, this destroys the soul, but perhaps different bodies actually have different souls. If the memories are transferred in one way or another (perhaps a backup saved into a computer, perhaps a psychic link, whatever) then you can keep going with the same character even if they die in this way. PS. Come on Vio, POST. What is Asv. about to do? Who is he going to disembowel? Maybe he has a competitive vendetta against Inferi? He liked being the "only child"? Oh o... Oh, and in reference to the weapons that Kira and Dukat have, yeah, they are part of the backstory. No, they are not insanely powerful. They are actually straight out of the book and part of the power that the two characters have. Magical dagger: 1d6 damage Ability 1: Returns when thrown and +1 to strike/parry. Ability 2: Ice Blast and Ice Dagger, 200 ft, 4d6 damage, unlimited blasts. Staff Shoots Lightning bolts, 600 ft, 4d6 damage, unlimited ammo. Shoots Fire blasts, 200 ft, 4d6 damage, unlimited ammo. They are powerful, but hardly unbalancingly so. 4D6 damage at a decent range, various elements, unlimited blasts. The dagger has a bonus to strike and returns when thrown. This is all straight out of the book (PU 2 p. 66). Edited by Beowulf, May 4 2011, 05:00 AM.
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| Arthotus | May 4 2011, 09:15 AM Post #236 |
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None of those 'Back from the grave' would fit my character at all. Plus if 22 dies and I play another character, it'll be nothing like 22. I hate doing things over again. I don't think a clone of Fal really fits because he's a gun nut, so unless it was a transferred intelligence Gun-Borg, I doubt it. In reference to Kira and Dukat's super super powers, I was referring more to the beads currently wrapped around Dukat, and whatever super powers Kira gets from being the living embodiment of a minor god, and a ninja, and a Mayan Emporer and whatever other random and confusing storyline you put him through. (Seriously. He gets around) As for the 30 hits comment, That is more or less true, but the amount of SDC 22 has, as compared to the damage the fireballs do equates out to easily 30 hits before he dies. Plus it's not necessarily one encounter. It's any encounter with Infaeri. The physical damage and PE drain correlation makes sense. Although it would be totally easy to bring Kyrois back. She was attempting to mentally possess Infaeri as she got filled with lead, soooooo..You can pretty much fill in anything there. Plus it's not entirely known whether she actually died in the nat 20 2000+ damage barrage. 22 and Fal on the other hand seem less likely to come back if you beat them to a bloody pulp, slit their throats, and dispose of their bodies in the company incinerator. You're totally doing the underhanded bad guy assassination wrong. You shoulda planted explosives on his car or something. Lol I am a little angry, but it wouldn't be soooo much of a problem if I didn't have weeks at a time to stew on a single issue. POST PEOPLE! Edited by Arthotus, May 4 2011, 09:17 AM.
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| VioWolf | May 4 2011, 05:56 PM Post #237 |
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Waiting for Scarie lol ![]() |
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| Beowulf | May 5 2011, 07:51 AM Post #238 |
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Actually, Kira gets nothing as far as power is concerned from his thousands of years on earth. He has a ton of high level skills, but none of his old powers. He is a level 1 human psi slayer/immortal. Not even any ninja bonuses, but he still thinks like a ninja in regards to stealth and assassinations. Pretty cool and powerful regardless, but I don't think it's quite as powerful as you were imagining. The beads are just binding them to their respective astral beings of light and darkness, the immortality comes from those beings. They had no choice in accepting them. For all intents and purposes, they are now slaves. Kira is quite pissed about that, despite now having immortality through a more permanent means, he lost all his old power and has to work for a dick. Before he wasn't truly immortal, he just kept prolonging his own life indefinitely. I could have used way more explosives and just obliterated you guys, but Kira wanted to take you alive for questioning, interrogation, punishment, and possibly execution. I can almost guarantee at least 1 character was going to die. Unfortunately 22 had to be all tough and mess up his plans, so now things are mess. POST SCAERIE... (she said she'll try to get to it tomorrow) There, I nagged her and she posted. Now to see what epic and devastating attack Asv. has planned. Edited by Beowulf, May 5 2011, 08:14 AM.
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| 13ghosts | May 5 2011, 07:46 PM Post #239 |
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Can I roll strike to drool on someone? |
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| Lunarmage | May 6 2011, 01:41 AM Post #240 |
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Sure, why not. |
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| ScaerieFaerie | May 6 2011, 04:09 AM Post #241 |
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LOL! Do it! I would die lauging. I'm already well on the way. |
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| 13ghosts | May 6 2011, 08:28 AM Post #242 |
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awwh XD now I'm gonna get shot with spikes =p ah well WUAHAH revenge is mine! 13's drool chart. Kira = kick in the face / possible fire ball or sometype of magic blast Infaeri = kick in the gut / fireball Asv = toe punt to the side and an odd look 22 = (IC) not much (OOC) 8 spikes return fire Fal = RETURN FIRE!!! |
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| Arthotus | May 7 2011, 03:30 PM Post #243 |
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If you'd like there is an Optional Roll in Rifts Canada on Save VS Pain Save vs. Pain Now it's a tad confusing, because it's the classic sembedia text of 'This happens, but this also happens with a side of this, but only if this happens' So I don't know if you want to use it or not. I'll Roll vs 15 for now. |
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| Beowulf | May 8 2011, 05:20 AM Post #244 |
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If I were you I would have rolled for every post to see if I gathered my strength. this situation keeps developing in ways I couldn't have foreseen. Very interesting. |
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| Arthotus | May 8 2011, 08:31 AM Post #245 |
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This is very confusing. I'm attempting to roll at every opportunity I think would be my action, but I dunno. Wow. Just wow. I make six, no wait SEVEN rolls in a row. Now i can't make a single roll for 3 tries. Law of averages says the next one is the winner. Come on one more chance! Edited by Arthotus, May 8 2011, 08:46 AM.
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| Lunarmage | May 8 2011, 02:28 PM Post #246 |
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Arth, you can apply PE bonuses to save vs. Pain. |
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| Arthotus | May 8 2011, 02:52 PM Post #247 |
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Oh? Well that makes it exponentially easier. PE bonuses for the win! |
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| VioWolf | May 8 2011, 07:39 PM Post #248 |
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lol just a question, but when has Asv said anything self righteous or that he was right? lol this is the first time he has actually spoken except for at the Vatican. Just wondering thought it was funny that people are thinking that about him, tee hee.
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| Arthotus | May 8 2011, 08:10 PM Post #249 |
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Pretty sure that's just Scaerie. I'd assume we'd have been introduced, but i can't remember an IC comment where 22 actually even learned Asv.'s name. |
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| VioWolf | May 8 2011, 09:26 PM Post #250 |
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tee hee, he is usually pretty quiet He doesn't know 22 or Fal either lol.
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4:26 PM Jul 10
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thought it was funny that people are thinking that about him, tee hee.
He doesn't know 22 or Fal either lol. 
4:26 PM Jul 10