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OOC
Topic Started: Aug 5 2010, 04:56 AM (4,249 Views)
Arthotus
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No I've only got one back...where was that other one?

Well ya, straight up fist fight would result in Kira being bloody on the ground %5000 percent of the time, but the problem for me is that 22 has little to NO psionic defenses. I seriously don't think i have a single plus to save vs psionics. As far as I know, Kira has a lot of those. Therefor, if I didn't blind side you at 400mph, you be able to melt my mind and all that.

PS> why are they called mind melters? As far as I know, they don't really get any psionics that allow them to reduce people to vegetables on the floor. The closest one is bio-manipulation, but even that doesn't do what you'd think someone called a MIND MELTER would do.
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Beowulf
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Yeah, I think mind melters, for all the hype, deserve some special unique powers of their own. Mind control or body manipulation, even being able to force someone to kill themselves or loved ones against their will regardless of alignment. Think Leolouche from Code Geass or Legato from Trigun. Controlling large groups of people with a thought. A mind melter would have to use the same ability multiple times to achieve such an effect, and even then it is not as if their psionics are anything special compared to the psionics of others. A good save bonus and a mind melter loses half his tricks (and the majority of his most powerful or manipulative tricks).
Mentally possess others comes close to what I just described, but it has a few major drawbacks. Firstly it is a touch attack. Secondly the psychic must transfer his own consciousness in to the other's body and leave himself completely vulnerable. Thirdly, it can only be done to one person at a time. Finally, the aforementioned problem that anyone with a sufficiently high bonus to save will almost never fall victim.
Edited by Beowulf, Jun 6 2011, 09:04 AM.
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Arthotus
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Pretty much. Psionics, for the most part in palladium, are combat mages. In my opinion that's what they are. They get to perform 'magic' with no cast time, and with more combat effectiveness. They don't get nearly as epic as Magic users later on, (Like spells of legend), but they start out quick and they don't have to search out spells. With many of the new spells in rifts, there is only marginal differences in the low level Spells and Psionics. I mean come ON! There is a bloody spell CALLED telekenesis.
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Beowulf
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Palladium should re-vamp its psionics so there is more potential for power, even if they have to impose level restrictions on certain abilities. Opponents get -1 to save vs psionics every 2 or 3 levels would help. More abilities would be cool too. I've considered taking certain sensory abilities from Naruto and station them for psionics. Basically all of the eye techniques would be very doable and would serve both to enhance senses and combat ability.

As a note, in my game there is a tentative home rule for making psionics more powerful in a manner similar (but unique in its own way) to how I made magic more powerful.

As a note of psionics in comparison to magics (my own observations), it kind of feels like magic is something that anyone could learn if they studied and the power from magic comes from unseen forces beyond the user. PPE is a reflection of how much of this external energy one can control and it grows through practice. There are very few creatures that can not learn magic, though many races choose not to.

Psionics, however, are a genetic trait that can only be learned by certain creatures and the power is entirely dependent on the individual. ISP is a reflection of one's own internal power which grows through exercise.

It's ironic that magic is fueled by "potential psychic energy". I wonder who came up with that idea and why it wasn't changed early on.
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Arthotus
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I wasn't talking about psionics in character description. I was talking about how it feels to play them. They're the combat mage. You don't wear armor, even though you totally could(Seriously, why don't psionics wear armor? It doesn't screw up casting. They just need line of sight. Their power comes from the inside right?) You have to sit back and lob spells/psionics. The spells/psionics are way cheeper that invocations in most cases, so you get to lob them all day as a mind mage/melter. That's just how they seem to me.

My point is even illustrated more by the fact that the exact same system can power up a psionic AND a mage.
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Arthotus
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wait wait wait. Gantu wouldn't have just set her down and buggered off. I had intended he go in with her and sort out the whole, she's here to help and you should get her set up somewhere.

I had simply tried to help skip that along so we didn't have to waste time getting her introduced to the leaders of our organization in character, because We didn't do that for anyone else.

I'll just narrate myself in I guess.
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13ghosts
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hm, according to the wiki... the .50 hits just as hard and travels just as fast as the 20mm... What do you say would happen Lunar?
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Lunarmage
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The big difference between a .50 and the 20mm, is that with the 20mm you can include in the description a volley of ideas; explosive, armor piercing sabot rounds, etc. Generally anything at this point a tank can fire, the 20mm can. Also check out the Barrett XM-109 and XM-25 threads for ideas for what the 20mm can do.
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13ghosts
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hm, fancy... So those HEAT rounds are okayed then? Cooool
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13ghosts
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XD Beo, you seem to be having nearly as much fun with that magic system as i do =p, be careful XD some spells don't mix the way you'd like.
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Beowulf
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And that's why Dukat's trying them out ahead of time in a relatively closed and secure environment. Playing with magic isn't necessarily safe, but the dangers can be minimized. He definitely wants to figure out what spells work before he is in combat.
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13ghosts
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awwwh, but what fun is thaaat? =p takin the fun right out of it.
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Lunarmage
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There are posts for everyone here... what happened people?
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13ghosts
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We hopped to like you did... Castle's down.
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Beowulf
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Sorry, I've been a slacker, but I can't speak for the rest of the boards. Got addicted to a number of things in RL, including a book (book addictions are dangerous) and a card game that you aren't to fond of (we all have our preferences). working on posting today.

Yay, D's zombie game finally has posts up!
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Arthotus
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So I has a few questions.

When I become 92 feet tall, as is the maximum(why use anything else?) Do my spikes from Quills and Spines also scale up? I really hope so! If they do, What kind of damage would they do now? because if they were 1d6 daggers at normal size of 8ft tall......were talkin trees here. Normal sized trees. Thats a good amount of damage, I hope. I'm hoping they provide a little bit more SDC than 1 SDC a quill when they are Tree sized. Pleeeeeeeease?

Querry 2: Mega Wings + Growth: It tells me to double my speed when over 20ft tall. Since I can be over 20 feet tall, does that double my flight speed as well? It could because my wings actually flap and such, so bigger wings would make me go faster right? >.<

Querry 3: What actually is the damage scale for a PS of 126. That's bloody godlike, I know, but I'm gonna need if when the ENTIRE realm of Hades (or Dyval(or both! yay!)) decends on my bloated ass.

Querry 4: +20 Sdc per foot is for a standard human, but in my opinion 22 is much tougher than your average human, even on a basic level and I think the increase of SDC should scale at the higher...hieghts. If you think about it, when I increase from 8 to 10 feet, I gain 20 sdc, AND when i increase from 90 to 92 feet, I gain 20 sdc. In my opinion, I would gain a lot more mass and general awesomeness from 90 to 92 rather than 8 to 10. With the scale as it is, I get an additional 1680 sdc, which i think is superfluous if I'm the size of an appartment complex. A building that big(which would be full of holes and glass and stuff) would have waaaaaaay more sdc than that. If you give me the benifit of the GM decision on anything at all, PLEASE let it be waaaaaay more SDC at the bigger...biggerness. (also, I don't think siembedia ever designed the power for this kind of abuse so I think we need more advanced rules to suit the situation.)

Final Querry(5): I get a horror factor of 9 at when I'm 8ft tall. (since i start at 8 ft normally, we'll count that as automatic.) I get an additional Horror Factor point for every six feet after that. Soooooo 92 -8 = 84/6 = 14
9+14 is 23. Am I allowed to have a horror factor of 23 if I don't eat babies?

Edited by Arthotus, May 2 2012, 10:02 PM.
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Lunarmage
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I would first like to address one thing first.. Everyone with Extraordinary Physical Endurance becomes MDC in this new world. This has become a modified Chaos Earth. The biggest differences being that the three biggest Rifts throughout North America have been at least temporarily 'capped' by pyramids.

So to answer one of your questions Arthos, your quills will do MD, no SD.

1) The quills will do the same damage as a giant sword (typically 4d6)
2) Yes, you will double your speed.
3) No that isn't bloody Godlike, that is stronger than even Atlas. Use the damage table for Atlas.
4) The +20 SDC/MDC per foot rule stays the same, no change.
5) Horror Factor maxes out at 19, period.
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Arthotus
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I actually have another question about the increased SDC/MDC from growth. How is it affected by Turning into Metal? The increased SDC is for an extra foot of 'person' rather than metal, so would the increased damage capacity be better per foot for a metal being?
Edited by Arthotus, May 6 2012, 06:56 AM.
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Lunarmage
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The transformation into metal is a static 700. Giant sized, or normal sized.
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Arthotus
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Wait. What?

Spoiler: click to toggle



Just ignore that.

Ok then.
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Lunarmage
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That is extra 700, not a simple "You ONLY have 700". That is my call. Primarily because I do know that you will need that extra 700 to be able to take the hits that will have to come from the creatures you will have to fight to find a challenge.
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Beowulf
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So metal form = +700 MDC works like

Normal sized = 10 MDC
Normal metal = 710
Giant = 1000
Giant metal = 1700

Correct?

I think that's a pretty good way to work it if I'm understanding properly. Makes both powers relevant, and Art's character gets to be the HP tanks he seems to want to play. Yay for genetic experiments!

If metal got stronger with size Arty would end up with 100,000 some odd MDC. A little, I dun know... Stupid? At least until the power scales up again. Maybe that could be your next improvement? Or maybe one in the distant future... I think your character could already easily defeat any three gods at once in an arm wrestle, so I'd be pretty happy with that.
Edited by Beowulf, May 7 2012, 09:00 PM.
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Lunarmage
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No... it works like this.

The power gives (by the book) a static 700 S/MDC (Not added to the characters base)
I am giving a +700 to characters base MDC
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Arthotus
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Okokok wait. Beo, Yes, the book says "Total SDC becomes 800.(Also everyone the number is 800 SDC.)" Pretty sure this is to avoid people being me and having things like, indestructibility, Increased SDC and Alter physical structure Metal, to have easily over 1000 SDC.

Now, it's my belief that, in this heroes system, That's not OP at all. By contrast, a character with that move set is a tank of awesomeness sure, but his damage output is really limited to his increases strength from the Metal change, and one can ony do so much damage with a good PS(if he rolled well). Honestly, The way I've built, I don't do that much damage. I was, and am, trying to be the guy who jumps in front of the laser beams of doom to save other characters. Neither Gantu nor 22, while being little SDC gods, couldn't do more than like 3d6 at the begging, because everything went into armor. Also, no fancy magics like Dukat and Kira.

The fact that I stumbled across a power that worked off of PE was lucky, and a little broken, but I thought that's why you're shoveling extra powers at Fal and 22. Dukat gets lots of stuff later and Kira is Kira so I thought it would be pretty even if I turned into Godzilla. It's just that turning into Godzilla is suicide if I don't have a little OOMF to back it up. Yes I'm absolutely taking appart one of their super carriers, but it's already been 2 combat rounds. I could build you a damage character who could do far more than 1600 Damage in two combat rounds(For example, Fal does 2d6x10 a shot with that gun. Unloading with a few lucky shots for thirty seconds could easily match me). It's what the Demons do back that I'm scared of. Those cannons hit like a mofo and I don't actually know how many of those they got pointed at me right now. Considering I'm about the only target right now, I could pretty easily be swarmed under by thousands of gargoyles, and while I'm pretty tanky, those gargoyles easily give me a run for my money, with up to 700MD a pop.

I'm rambling abit now, but the point that I really want to get across is My destrutibility. Yes, I can do a lot of damage right now, however, at 92 feet, I can be hit with good accuracy by demon siege weapons. Those things do up 1d6x100! Even if I have 2000 MDC(Close actually) I'd only survive five or sixish hits.

And besides. It was either Growth, or Multiple Selves, and having a squad of Artilery pieces sounded silly.

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Beowulf
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LOL @ "And Kira is Kira."

Actually ,for the most part, he doesn't deal that much damage, he's just a genius and an asshat. I guess that comes with being the most evil and cocky character in the game. He was going to be a nightlord, but that got revoked due to balancing issues (and rightfully so). Now he has a few more fun powers (by the book super psionics and talents), but other than immortality he's not ridiculously deadly unless he does what he does best, which is stack the odds in his favor. He does do that well.

Well, I guess he has one ability that's very deadly, but that's new, shiny, and secret. Even so, getting stepped on by a 98 foot giant flying monster is bound to leave Kira a little messed up, as in, looking like scrambled eggs and hoping to find a safe dark place to regenerate for a few weeks.

Kira doesn't get scared, but your character scares me for Kira. :)
Edited by Beowulf, May 8 2012, 04:19 AM.
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