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Female Shamans...; let them eat!
Topic Started: May 27 2005, 11:48 AM (195 Views)
Syphon Knight
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Ok, we all know that Shamans/Shamanesses are supposed to be "slow, but powerful". This is true for the most part given the natural heaviness of dark tomes. They're heavy, inaccurate, and powerful. But what's really dumb is the base CON stat of female shamans. It's three!

Normally, the heavier the weapon, the higher the base CON is of the corresponding class. For example, mercs/myrmidons generally (not including special instances like Dieck and Gerik) have lower Con due to the nature of swords having a low weight rating. Same with Fighters/Brigands/Pirates. Their higher Con fits the high weight of axes perfectly.

Now some may say, well, there's no E rank dark tome. While this is true, perhaps we can compare two D rank tomes. Shine and Flux:

Shine: Wt 8, Mt 6, Hit 90, Crit 8, D req, Uses: 30
Flux: Wt. 8, Mt. 7, Hit. 80, Crit. 0. Uses: 45

Minus the uses, argueably, both have similar stats. However, the base Con of a Vestal is 5, while the F. Shamans is 3...major disadvantage. Others may say but F. Mages have low Con as well. Heh, contrary to popular belief, Anima magic, not Light, is the lightest of all the tomes so their base Con doesn't need to be that high. You could also argue the F. Shamans starting stats are better, but it's misleading. Having at least one point in every stat isn't as good as it sounds. The combined base stat total for Vestals is 32 while the F. Shaman is 30.

So, the solution? Hm. I'm not asking for a major Con boost so that they can wield Flux with no AS lost at all considering it is a D rank tome after all. Perhaps bump it to five ( six with the Con bonus ). That way 4 of the 13 starting points don't have to be spent on making sure the F. Shaman doesn't lose a whole 4 AS from their basic tome.

...anyone agree?
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HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
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HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Tos_forever
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Judas- A familiar, but suprising face from Tales of Destiny.

I do... 3 is way to low...
I... like to... use... "..."...

Tales of Destiny 2>>>Tales of Symphonia

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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

It's 7. We just use the same base for males and females. Personally, I think it should be lower, but Zap said so.
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KJ456
May 27 2005, 06:31 AM
It's 7. We just use the same base for males and females. Personally, I think it should be lower, but Zap said so.

Whew. Ok then.

But someone should take this out of the reference section:

Shaman (F) 20 20 20 20 20 3 20 0

Of course that graph is for max stat caps, but it also shows base Con ratings for all classes. That 3 is the Con rating.
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Syphon Knight
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Whoops, that was me.

And to add on to what KJ said: females SHOULD have lower Con ratings than their male counterparts.
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HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
Player: Maybe later...
HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

I was just thinking in general. The average of FE6/7 druids' con is 5.25.
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Do not click. Do, however, click these at your leisure ('specially for stats): Gero, Terra, Tic, Nys'elni and Murphy.

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Syphon Knight
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KJ456
May 27 2005, 11:53 AM
I was just thinking in general. The average of FE6/7 druids' con is 5.25.

Meh, you can't really use FE6 as a reference since dark tomes weighed less. Shamans didn't need to be beefy. And we use FE7 item stats.

Basic dark tomes in FE6:

Flux: Mt:8 Hit:70 Wt:5
Nosferatu: Mt:10 Hit:70 Wt:6
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HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
Player: Maybe later...
HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Druid
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Burning Baron

Syphon Knight
May 27 2005, 07:59 AM
Meh, you can't really use FE6 as a reference since dark tomes weighed less. Shamans didn't need to be beefy. And we use FE7 item stats.

Basic dark tomes in FE6:

Flux: Mt:8 Hit:70 Wt:5
Nosferatu: Mt:10 Hit:70 Wt:6

FE6 dark tomes pwned.

I mean, how the heck did Nosferatu get from 6 wt to 14 wt?
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

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Vicas
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Ok, hop aboard then. Adventure awaits.

^^Some one learned how to make it smaller, like a laptop to a PC or something?
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[00:09:11] Magus of the Purge: You and Kim's anniversary is the original Great Purge?
[00:09:15] Captain Vicas: Yep
[00:09:28] Magus of the Purge: No wonder your relationshup has lasted this long.
[00:09:32] Captain Vicas: Of course
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

It actually went from 14 to 6. Vicas might be right.
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Do not click. Do, however, click these at your leisure ('specially for stats): Gero, Terra, Tic, Nys'elni and Murphy.

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Challenges open if I'm around, though you'd better be prepared to stat, 'cause I'm lazy.

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Vicas
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Ok, hop aboard then. Adventure awaits.

Heh, woot to jokes that I just realized may be right?
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[00:09:11] Magus of the Purge: You and Kim's anniversary is the original Great Purge?
[00:09:15] Captain Vicas: Yep
[00:09:28] Magus of the Purge: No wonder your relationshup has lasted this long.
[00:09:32] Captain Vicas: Of course
[00:09:36] Magus of the Purge: it was blessed by Gheb himself
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Lone Wolf
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Ph34r teh different Xenogears avatar everyday

Holy Crap! Gerik DOSE have a huge con!
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Tos_forever
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Why would you want Gerik to weild a Steel Blade? They freaking suck...
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Zap
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yeah

High power and quick weapon level gain, maybe?
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Tos_forever
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Judas- A familiar, but suprising face from Tales of Destiny.

For weapon level gain, maybe... High power? Screw that. Silver Sword has much better stats than Steel Blade.
I... like to... use... "..."...

Tales of Destiny 2>>>Tales of Symphonia

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Spotted Zebra
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Feeling spritely.

Syphon Knight
May 27 2005, 09:59 AM
Whoops, that was me.

And to add on to what KJ said: females SHOULD have lower Con ratings than their male counterparts.

I disagree. Think about it:

If Shamanesses had lower CON than Shamans, which do you think a new member would pick? If female units had lower CON than their male counterparts, we'd be over-run with male units because they'd be considered better than females as their weapons wouldn't outweigh them in most cases.

Which brings me to another thing that irks me: Why is it that magic-wielders, as a rule, have much lower CON than melee units, yet a magic-wielder's weapons are much heavier in proportion? It makes no sense to me.
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it or does it." --- Malcolm X.

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I guess I'm not cut out for magical girl shows.

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I like the italics in the post.

"Cleric by Seth"

It sounds like a fancy cologne.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Posted Image Naia, level 20/11 Valkyrie | Posted Image Firenze, level 20/9 Mystic | Posted Image Lynore, level 16 Nomad
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Syphon Knight
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Spotted Zebra
May 27 2005, 08:04 PM
Syphon Knight
May 27 2005, 09:59 AM
Whoops, that was me.

And to add on to what KJ said: females SHOULD have lower Con ratings than their male counterparts.

I disagree. Think about it:

If Shamanesses had lower CON than Shamans, which do you think a new member would pick? If female units had lower CON than their male counterparts, we'd be over-run with male units because they'd be considered better than females as their weapons wouldn't outweigh them in most cases.

Which brings me to another thing that irks me: Why is it that magic-wielders, as a rule, have much lower CON than melee units, yet a magic-wielder's weapons are much heavier in proportion? It makes no sense to me.

I disagree because then females have an advantage. Their higher speed cap makes them better than males. Usually, the lower Con balances this out. In this instance, it's not true since both have the same cap, but it does appear in other cases.

As for the other part, think about it: Does a book worm have bigger muscles than a guy that walks around in heavy armor or someone who swings around an axe all day? :blink:
Quote:
 
HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
Player: Maybe later...
HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Spotted Zebra
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Feeling spritely.

Syphon Knight
May 27 2005, 07:09 PM
As for the other part, think about it: Does a book worm have bigger muscles than a guy that walks around in heavy armor or someone who swings around an axe all day? :blink:

That's not the point. Magic-wielders should have lighter weapons (the basic tomes are usually fine, but most Sages can't even wield anything heavier than Thunder without AS penalty. It's even worse with Shamans and Monks,) since their CON is so low.
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it or does it." --- Malcolm X.

"The AI is not very smart. It makes up for that by cheating." --- Naglfar, on Civilization II: Multiplayer Gold Edition. XD

Flarebringer
 
I guess I'm not cut out for magical girl shows.

Someday, this is going to get quoted out of context.


Seth
on Tales of a New World's clan roster
I like the italics in the post.

"Cleric by Seth"

It sounds like a fancy cologne.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My characters:

Posted Image Naia, level 20/11 Valkyrie | Posted Image Firenze, level 20/9 Mystic | Posted Image Lynore, level 16 Nomad
Posted Image Mu Arae, level 17 Pegasus Knight | Posted Image Mars, level 7 Professor | Posted Image Gloria, level 11 Fortune-Teller

Spot prefers to stat in battles since she usually lacks sufficient time to run them through an RNG.


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Syphon Knight
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Spotted Zebra
May 27 2005, 08:20 PM
That's not the point. Magic-wielders should have lighter weapons (the basic tomes are usually fine, but most Sages can't even wield anything heavier than Thunder without AS penalty. It's even worse with Shamans and Monks,) since their CON is so low.

But...most classes can't wield steel weapons without AS lost either. Pegasus knights can't wield Iron lances without AS lost. Not to mention that tomes like Thunder are_very_good D rank weapons. Steel weapons suck. Giving Mages an advantage like that would overpower them.
Quote:
 
HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
Player: Maybe later...
HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Tos_forever
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Judas- A familiar, but suprising face from Tales of Destiny.

Yep. Steel weapons do suck. Oh, Syphon Knight, the speed advantage for the females is usually balanced out by lower strength or defense.
I... like to... use... "..."...

Tales of Destiny 2>>>Tales of Symphonia

Posted Image- Kykdis, a level 20/3 Swordmaster

Volc, a level 6 Brigand

Levinus, a level 9 Knight
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