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Tower of Valor discussions/complaints; Another money-maker, OMG!
Topic Started: Jun 15 2005, 04:54 PM (1,944 Views)
KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

Roy doesn't have to. He has draconic pimpitude.
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Do not click. Do, however, click these at your leisure ('specially for stats): Gero, Terra, Tic, Nys'elni and Murphy.

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Banner by Shade.

Challenges open if I'm around, though you'd better be prepared to stat, 'cause I'm lazy.

My theme, according to the Mooney one.
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Syphon Knight
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Levin has Holy Holsety Blood pimpness. Born to pimp!
Quote:
 
HK-47: Query: Can I break his neck now master? It's been a long time fantasy of mine...
Player: Maybe later...
HK-47: Query: Did you hear that meatbag? "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Apocalypse
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Monofillament shuriken guns>You

MM,maybe you should add a prize that repairs prfs
Saber Level 20/10 SwordMaster
Oni Level 6 Thief
Rayden Level 12 Wyvern Rider
Huaclir Level 1 Pirate

If life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. And sure as hell don't throw those lemons away. Sit down and think, think long and hard about what you did to get those lemons. Because if you can get a metaphysical concept like Life to give you real physical lemons, you're one step away from the mysteries of the universe. - PhoeKun.
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Jmyster
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I'm just going to have Touhou infect everything now

FE4: Most of the time, the predestined endings have more then one convo, normally one when they fall in love/or meet each other, and one in chapter 5, when some have already uh...you know...yeah...

Levin has the best convo's cause he rocks. He is nearly undisputabley the best character in the first part of the game with his 1337 Holsety pwning skills. Levin has the best personality out of everyone IMO of the first generation.

[size=14]MAJOR ARSE SPOILERS FOR FE4[/size]




[size=-5]Levin isn't himself in the second part of the game (6-epilogue), he kicks the bucket and was revived by the god Holsety. So in part two of the game, it's not Levin their, but Holsety fyi.[/size]
-It makes you wonder what goes on in the minds of people who can't seem to grasp the notion that one =/= all. Perhaps they failed math in school--Spotted Zebra
The Character Formerly Known as Jeremy-20/13 Hero
Saria-20/20 Wyvern Lady
Yumil-15/11 Druid
Ankiseth Level 11 Pirate
Elandra 20/1 Hunter
Maria Valine (RP ONLY)
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Druid
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Burning Baron

Jym, take this to the FE4 topic. (I just made one)
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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The MetalMew
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There Can Only Be One!

You could have gave it a better subtitle if you're going to bump it, y'know...
Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.

[leaves own mark on profile] :D

MSN convo with IS
 
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
I quote like it myself. >_>
Kyle says:
..Can I quite you on that?
Kyle says:
*shot*
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
...>_<


[QUOTE = MSN with Tee]Taco says:
ó_?
Taco says:
....fear the almighty questionmark!eye[/QUOTE]

Gail, FEABL's first Swordmaster (Retired)
Alex, firey Wyvern Rider (Lvl 14)
Silvia, teh shiny Paladin (Retired)
Yoshiro, the Heroic bishie (Lvl 20/3)
Domino, the alluring Assassin (Lvl 20/3)
Syndor, FEABL's first Halberdier (Lvl 20/1)
Zoe, FEABL's first Centurion (Lvl 15/4)

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Caney
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CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD YE GUILTY

Has this been started yet? If so, where is it?
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Chrono
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What's the password?

In the forum labeled "Tower of Valor".
Posted Image- "Okay, there's this Psycho Death Cult that's after me..." (Dizzy, level 11) - ON PERMANENT OC -- feel free to PM Challenge -- skills on preferred

If you buy games here, I get play money to buy games with. It's a win win! (For me)
Stupid poll things

Rion and Rianne converse

Characters and Banners

Thankee to Shade for the banners.
(Click them to go to the profiles)

Sig things by Shade and Fish, and much props go to them. Dizzy's sprite by Vicas.
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Dark
one day before my mafia won Round 6
Or, in an incredibly crazy turn of events, Chrono is really the GF, and he got ike lynched to throw suspicioun off of him. That's probably really unlikely though
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Caney
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CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD YE GUILTY

I found it.
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Nate
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yeah

So, insert complaining about buster weapons here...you all know my position. There isn't that big of a difference between busters and the Swordslayer. In fact, the main difference is the Swordslayer's reaver effect, which is easily negated with something like, I dunno, an axe for heroes and is necessary for a buster versus the dodgy swordmasters, who generally have enough Skl so that that doesn't matter, anyway.

Armorbusters completely and utterly screw over Knights. And don't give me that "but it isn't our fault that you didn't give your knight speed." It isn't my fault that you didn't give your merc/myrmi more defense so they could take that hit. It isn't my fault that these weapons are being used completely out of the normal context of the game, in which the fact that they are mediocre against non-SE guys acts as a balance. I propose that if these weapons are used, they can only be used in events, in their original context. This seems like a semireasonable compromise...
Gigs
 
[00:47] Gigs: nothing on feabl is drama worthy
[00:47] Gigs: and yet...


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Druid
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Burning Baron

I also have a point that I recalled last night.

While a Swordslayer completely screws over swordmasters/heros, bows completely screw over wyvern lords/falcoknights.

Would you ban bows?

No.

Then why ban the swordslayer?

And if you say the swordsalyer has better stats, than what about the killer bow? the silver bow?
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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The MetalMew
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There Can Only Be One!

Who said anything banning Swordslayers? They just aren't availible as a tower prize.
Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.

[leaves own mark on profile] :D

MSN convo with IS
 
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
I quote like it myself. >_>
Kyle says:
..Can I quite you on that?
Kyle says:
*shot*
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
...>_<


[QUOTE = MSN with Tee]Taco says:
ó_?
Taco says:
....fear the almighty questionmark!eye[/QUOTE]

Gail, FEABL's first Swordmaster (Retired)
Alex, firey Wyvern Rider (Lvl 14)
Silvia, teh shiny Paladin (Retired)
Yoshiro, the Heroic bishie (Lvl 20/3)
Domino, the alluring Assassin (Lvl 20/3)
Syndor, FEABL's first Halberdier (Lvl 20/1)
Zoe, FEABL's first Centurion (Lvl 15/4)

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Druid
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Burning Baron

Bows are a tower prize, though.


PWN'D
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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The MetalMew
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There Can Only Be One!

So are the busters. I fail to see your point.
Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.

[leaves own mark on profile] :D

MSN convo with IS
 
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
I quote like it myself. >_>
Kyle says:
..Can I quite you on that?
Kyle says:
*shot*
±Ú¯¸½ - Needing language packs since '91 says:
...>_<


[QUOTE = MSN with Tee]Taco says:
ó_?
Taco says:
....fear the almighty questionmark!eye[/QUOTE]

Gail, FEABL's first Swordmaster (Retired)
Alex, firey Wyvern Rider (Lvl 14)
Silvia, teh shiny Paladin (Retired)
Yoshiro, the Heroic bishie (Lvl 20/3)
Domino, the alluring Assassin (Lvl 20/3)
Syndor, FEABL's first Halberdier (Lvl 20/1)
Zoe, FEABL's first Centurion (Lvl 15/4)

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Druid
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Burning Baron

If bows are tower prizes, than so should be the Swordslayer, according to your logic.



And this is just something I randomly thought of last night.
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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Chrono
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What's the password?

Druid, according to that logic, Mamkutes completely screw over everything, so we should allow them.
Posted Image- "Okay, there's this Psycho Death Cult that's after me..." (Dizzy, level 11) - ON PERMANENT OC -- feel free to PM Challenge -- skills on preferred

If you buy games here, I get play money to buy games with. It's a win win! (For me)
Stupid poll things

Rion and Rianne converse

Characters and Banners

Thankee to Shade for the banners.
(Click them to go to the profiles)

Sig things by Shade and Fish, and much props go to them. Dizzy's sprite by Vicas.
Posted Image
Dark
one day before my mafia won Round 6
Or, in an incredibly crazy turn of events, Chrono is really the GF, and he got ike lynched to throw suspicioun off of him. That's probably really unlikely though
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Druid
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Burning Baron

:ph43r:
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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Chrono
Member Avatar
What's the password?

And we should allow all the legendary and S-rank weapons too. Let's not forget all those high growths!

Druid, they aren't B A N N E D. They'll be in auctions and such.
Posted Image- "Okay, there's this Psycho Death Cult that's after me..." (Dizzy, level 11) - ON PERMANENT OC -- feel free to PM Challenge -- skills on preferred

If you buy games here, I get play money to buy games with. It's a win win! (For me)
Stupid poll things

Rion and Rianne converse

Characters and Banners

Thankee to Shade for the banners.
(Click them to go to the profiles)

Sig things by Shade and Fish, and much props go to them. Dizzy's sprite by Vicas.
Posted Image
Dark
one day before my mafia won Round 6
Or, in an incredibly crazy turn of events, Chrono is really the GF, and he got ike lynched to throw suspicioun off of him. That's probably really unlikely though
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Druid
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Burning Baron

When I read Chrono's posts about this, his avatar seems very appropriate.
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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skullmagic2
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I'm not the admin FEABL needs. I'm the one it deserves.

OH NO! SWITCHING TO AN ARMORLAYER GIVES HIM 4 MORE MT! SCREWED! WE'RE ALL SCREWED!

...Yeah. That's basically what I'm hearing.
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Junis
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Phantom Menace

Personally, I think the BP prices for some of the items is just a little bit high. I mean, what's the likelihood of any character winning 9 matches in a row?
What is the question to which the answer is Chicken Teriyaki?
The question is: What is the name of the only surviving kamikaze pilot? -P. D. Q. Bach

Just because it's called a "Shade sandwich" doesn't mean it needs shade in it...
I mean, what if "**** on a shingle" really had **** in it?
-Syphon Knight

Yaku, level 14 Monk Luminos

Sigmund, level 11 Brigand

Takemada, level 5 Wyvern Rider

PM challenges accepted, no, encouraged. IM challenges and battles are even better (I'm jtiedye2@aol.com). Please fight me. Please? Oh, but no bows vs. Takemada or swords vs. Sigmund.
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FEaddict
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NOMNOMNOM

Glade got 8 in a row.


My Characters:

Glade level 20/20 Wyvern lord (RETIRED)
Aaron level 20/3 Paladin

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Druid
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Burning Baron

And then got his 95,000 gold confiscated.
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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Nate
Member Avatar
yeah

skullmagic2
Jun 19 2005, 10:34 PM
OH NO! SWITCHING TO AN SWORDSLAYER GIVES HIM 4 MORE MT AND MAYBE OR MAYBE NOT 30 MORE HIT! SCREWED! WE'RE ALL SCREWED!

...Yeah. That's basically what I'm hearing.

:)
Gigs
 
[00:47] Gigs: nothing on feabl is drama worthy
[00:47] Gigs: and yet...


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skullmagic2
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I'm not the admin FEABL needs. I'm the one it deserves.

Swordslayer: Wt 13, Mt 11, Hit 80, Crit 5, C Req, Uses: 20 Effective against swords
Hammer: Wt 15, Mt 10, Hit 55, Crit 0, D Req, Uses: 20 Effective against Armor
Halberd: Wt 15, Mt 10, Hit 60, Crit 0, D req, Uses: 18 Effective against Cavalry
Dragon Axe - Wt 11, Mt 12, Hit 60, Crit 0, C req, Uses: 20 Effective against Dragons
Brave Axe: Wt 16 Mt 10 Hit 65 Crit 0, B req, Uses: 30 Can strike consecutively
Silver Axe: Wt 12 Mt 15 Hit 70 Crit 0, A req, Uses: 20

30 hit? Is that your FINAL ANSWER? I hope not, 'cuz it's wrong. +45 hit, in most cases. With -45 hit for the opponent. Plus Swordslayer has more MT then any 'Buster, higher hit, highter crit, more uses, is lighter, Myrmidons/Mercs don't have the uber General caps... yeah.

And using a Swordslayer gives you a 7 point MT advantage from Silver Axe, while Hammer is only 5. Now, seeing as Generals have HIGHER defense, Sword users get screwed by a Swordslayer quite a big more then the 5 MT advantage that Generals/Knights have to face.
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Nate
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yeah

...you don't seem to realize something. High defense means that one gets screwed MORE by Mt than screwed LESS. For instance, let's say Johnny Axeman is using a Silver Axe against Freddy (no pun intended, really) the Knight. Freddy has 19 defense and 12 speed; Johnny, a pirate, has 13 strength and 19 speed. Johnny doubles Freddy for 18 damage. Johnny decides he wants to 0wn Freddy, and goes to the store and picks out a nice, new, shiny Hammer. Johnny now doubles Freddy for 28 damage. that's a pretty big difference, wouldn't you say?

And heroes do get axes, right? And there are still reaver weapons, they haven't been removed? And the Dragon Axe's Mt is still 12, right, not lowered to below 11?
Gigs
 
[00:47] Gigs: nothing on feabl is drama worthy
[00:47] Gigs: and yet...


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Druid
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Burning Baron

Replace Freddy with Frederick and Johnny with Tar and you've got it.
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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skullmagic2
Member Avatar
I'm not the admin FEABL needs. I'm the one it deserves.

Quote:
 
High defense means that one gets screwed MORE by Mt than screwed LESS


...I don't know what the... crap, anything I say here would force me to ban myself for offensive material/flaming/censor bypassing.

M'kay. Let's add to your little... thing and add Tom, the Myrmidon.

Now let's say Johnny is using a Swordslayer against poor Tom. Well, Myrmidons have terrible defense ('cuz of the cap), so Johnny's going to do a crapload of damge. Let's see... how do Myrmidons typically survive? Why, I'd have to say dodging. Wait a second, Swordslayer gives Johnny a double triangle advantage! Now he not only OHKOs Tom, he does it with insanely high hit, and Tom's hit is in the drain! His hit rate is higher then it was against Freddy! OH MY GOD! Tom just got RAPED IN THE ASS! I don't know why any of us think that's a surprise, really.
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Nate
Member Avatar
yeah

*watches Tom steal a Lancereaver from the nice man next store*
Gigs
 
[00:47] Gigs: nothing on feabl is drama worthy
[00:47] Gigs: and yet...


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Druid
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Burning Baron

Tom is a very bad boy.

'Cause the lancereaver totally screws Skull's argument.
“The truth is, Colonel, that there’s no divine spark, bless you. There’s many a man alive with no more value than a dead dog. Believe me, when you’ve seen them hang each other…Equality? Christ in Heaven. What I’m fighting for is the right to prove I’m a better man than many. Where have you seen this divine spark in operation, Colonel? Where have you noticed this magnificent equality? The Great White Joker in the Sky dooms us all to stupidity or poverty from birth. No two things on the earth are equal or have an equal chance, not a leaf nor a tree. There’s many a man worse than me, and some better, but I don’t think race or country matters a damn. What matters is justice. ‘Tis why I’m here. I’ll be treated as I deserve, not as my father deserved. I’m Kilrain, and I God damn all gentlemen.” –Buster Kilrain, The Killer Angels

"Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do or die." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Posted Image

Frederick, level 20/20 General, Retired
Kreig, level 20/3 Druid
Isaac, level 15/6 Nomad Trooper
Javier, level 20/12 Teutonic Knight
Adrian, level 15/1 Sage
Faisal, level 2 Fighter
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Chrono
Member Avatar
What's the password?

Tell me where you can buy a lancereaver. Tower of Valor. THAT'S IT. Add low uses of a reaver, Myrmidon=Totally-Undeniably-SCREWED
Posted Image- "Okay, there's this Psycho Death Cult that's after me..." (Dizzy, level 11) - ON PERMANENT OC -- feel free to PM Challenge -- skills on preferred

If you buy games here, I get play money to buy games with. It's a win win! (For me)
Stupid poll things

Rion and Rianne converse

Characters and Banners

Thankee to Shade for the banners.
(Click them to go to the profiles)

Sig things by Shade and Fish, and much props go to them. Dizzy's sprite by Vicas.
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Anteaterking
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Doesn't Swordslayer do like 4x the damage?
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Corbin: 20/9 Hero

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skullmagic2
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2x damage, plus Reaving, which gives it +2 MT and +30 hit/ -2 MT and -30 HIT vs Swords.
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Anteaterking
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IS the might doubled before defense is subtracted, or after? I always thought it was after, but today I used a wyrmslayer, and it was subtracted before doubling.
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Your birthday was June 6th, the day before yesterday, yesterday, and today, if I'm not mistaken. Would you mind explaining how you can turn 14 4 times in the same year?

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If I had some more good quotes, I'd put them here.

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Corbin: 20/9 Hero

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Pofmalg: 13 Pirate

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Nate
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yeah

The Mt of the weapon is doubled, not the total Mt. And I think that if the opponent is using a SWORDSLAYER on you, using a lancereaver is hardly inappropriate. And IIRC, Axes are buyable in quite a few places.
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Knarf
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It doubles the might, then adds +2 to strength, IIRC. Which makes sense, because you get +1 by winning the weapon triangle, and then its doubled.

And, TCM, if I hadn't known that it was you posting there, I would have thought that it was GB. That isn't a good thing.
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Challenges are always open, normally accepted.

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Early Retirement:

Minerva, Level 15/20 Swordmaster (Sword)
Erosthane, Level 20/4 Berserker (Axe)
Francis, Level 20/3 Sage (Anima)
Lucha, Level 18 Vestal (Light)
Conor, Level 4 Shaman (Elder)

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Moses, Axe Fighter
Alyssa, Soldier
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Chrono
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Huh, really?

I must need to tone down the flame-o-meter from 'Nuclear Reaction' to 'Making a point'.
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skullmagic2
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Okay, I'm going to try something here, which should work, but most likely Medi will just ignore it. It's called "Undeniable logic".

Swordslayer: Wt 13, Mt 11, Hit 80, Crit 5, C Req, Uses: 20 Effective against swords
Hammer: Wt 15, Mt 10, Hit 55, Crit 0, D Req, Uses: 20 Effective against Armor

Why, are my eyes deceiving me? It just looks like a Swordslayer beats a Hammer in every single stat. Well, that sounds kind of like an outrageous claim, so I'll go over it in detail!

MT:

SS: 11
Ham: 10

Well, at first, the 'Slayer only has a 1 point advantage. But don't forget the reaver bonuses! It's only a 3 point advantage, but surely with that much of an MT boost, it's other stats must be terrible. I mean, really.

Hit:

SS: 80
Ham: 55

Wow. At first I figured, this must be after the reaver bonuses, because it's so good! But it's not! Which means a Swordslayer w/ bonuses will have exactly twice the hit rate of a Hammer! Wow, Swordslayers must be amazingly heavy to make up for this Hit and Mt!

Wt:

SS: 13
Ham: 15

Well, now, this doesn't make sense! The Swordslayer is 2 points lighter! And not only lighter, light enough to be held w/out AS loss by most axe-using classes after promotion, even without a CON boost! The only classes I can think of who couldn't use it speedily are a Berserker promoted from a Pirate, who'd lose one point, a Hero, and a Paladin. But Paladins get Lances anyway, so they don't really need it. But because of the insane Mt, Hit, and low Wt, Swordslayer must have 0 crit. I mean, the majority of weapons do.

Crit:

SS: 5
Ham: 0

Holy flying mother of a holy flier! Sure, 5 crit isn't much to boast about, but it's more then 0! This "Swordslayer" really is insanely good! Maybe they gave it 5 uses like Bolting, or something, to balance it out!

Uses:

SS: 20
Ham: 20

Wow! After the other stats, I figured Swordslayer would have 16 uses at the most (Swordreaver only has 15!). But 20? Why, it ties the Hammer! TIES! With all of it's other stats better! Huh. Surely this Swordslayer of unbridled power must be A req, even S Req!

Weapon Requirement:

SS: C
Ham: D

WOW! The Hammer actually beats the Swordslayer in one stat I'm sure this completely makes up for the Swordslayer beating the Hammer in every other stat, wouldn't you say? Because, really, a C rank in axes (the heaviest weapons on average {I think, Elder might be a bit heavier}) is so incredibly hard to get. I mean, really!


Annnnyways, if that's not quite convincing enough, I'll glady compare it with any other 'slayer/'buster weapons you want me to.
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Chrono
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LOGIC'D!
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skullmagic2
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Yes. And sarcasm'd, too!
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Nate
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yeah

You appear to be COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTANDING my ENTIRE ARGUMENT. So the Swordreaver has +1 Mt, +25 Hit, +5 Crit, and a habit of being utterly destroyed by Lances instead of Swords. So, Hammers, meant to go against the slowest characters in the game, have low Hit to make up for the fact that they generally have a weapon triangle advantage. How stunning! Shocking, utterly shocking. However, I did like the fact that you assumed the Swordslayer would have a weapon triangle advantage all the time (hello, Mr. Hero! Would you like a nice, shiny new Iron Axe? Or perhaps this nice Lancereaver would be more to your taste?) but the Hammer never would. Cute. And I also liked how you emphasized 5 Crit, which will rarely make a difference, and somehow magically turned a 1 Mt advantage into a 3 Mt one through a nice technique known as "ignoring the facts." Oops. So, let's total up the difference.

1. The Swordslayer has a 1 Mt advantage against the Hammer. WHOAMG IT IS OVERPOWERED NOW!

2. The Swordslayer, which attacks the dodgiest units in the game, has a higher hit than the Hammer, which attacks the least dodgy ones. WOW!

3. The Swordslayer has +5 Crit! Wow! This really makes a huge difference in any battle ever!

4. The Swordslayer, which attacks extremely fast units, has a lower Wt than the Hammer, which attacks units that will likely be DAed anyhow.

5. The Hammer has a lower weapon requirement than the Swordslayer, which makes about as much difference as the Swordslayer's amazing magical 5 Crit.

6. The Swordslayer has a reaver effect that can easily be turned against it, while armorbusters come in all three weapon varieties and thus can technically get a weapon triangle advantage over anything.

7. The Swordslayer is an axe. There are buster weapons for all three weapon types (not counting the bow, obviously).

Wow. Reading those seven and seeing that the Swordslayer's biggest advantages are ones that allow it to actually hit the things it is supposed to counter really puts this in perspective.
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So the Swordreaver has +1 Mt, +25 Hit, +5 Crit, and a habit of being utterly destroyed by Lances instead of Swords.


Aww, but so many people enjoy using Swordslayers against Lances. I mean, that's just the smart thing to do.

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So, Hammers, meant to go against the slowest characters in the game, have low Hit to make up for the fact that they generally have a weapon triangle advantage.


"Generally?" Not really. Only if the General in question is dumb enough to use a Lance against an axe user with a Hammer/doesn't have any other weapons.

Quote:
 
However, I did like the fact that you assumed the Swordslayer would have a weapon triangle advantage all the time (hello, Mr. Hero! Would you like a nice, shiny new Iron Axe?


I love how your points all fit together. You say "dodgiest characters in the game" later, but now you're talking about heroes, who have a so incredible 26 Speed cap. And that's just the reaver swap example. Such as, Sword attacks Axe, Axe switches to Lance, Sword switches to Lanceraver, Lance switches back to Axe, lather, rinse, repeat. It's a part of the game.

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Or perhaps this nice Lancereaver would be more to your taste?) but the Hammer never would.


Lancereaver = PWNT by normal axes. See my last answer. And, as I've repeatedly said, a General would be an idiot to use a Lance against a Hammer.

Quote:
 
And I also liked how you emphasized 5 Crit, which will rarely make a difference, and somehow magically turned a 1 Mt advantage into a 3 Mt one through a nice technique known as "ignoring the facts."


I wasn't saying 5 crit was a huge advantage, although it is better then your average weapon. And while you blame people about ignoring facts, maybe you should read the the part of the rules about reavers, which says something along the lines of "Reaver weapons give a +2/-2 MT and +30/-30 Hit". Hmm, unless you failed preschool, you should be able to tell that 1+2= 3

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1. The Swordslayer has a 1 Mt advantage against the Hammer. WHOAMG IT IS OVERPOWERED NOW!


Isn't that the same advantage an Armoslayer has over a Silver Sword? Strange, I remember you going on and on about how overpowered an Armoslayer was.

Quote:
 
2. The Swordslayer, which attacks the dodgiest units in the game, has a higher hit than the Hammer, which attacks the least dodgy ones. WOW!


I'll split this up.

-The Swordslayer, which attacks the dodgiest units in the game, has a higher hit than the Hammer,

Hmm. You seem to be forgetting that those dodgy units rely on dodging, since they can't take a hit for crap. Male Generals cap speed 6 points lower then Swordmasters. That makes up for 12 points of dodge. Now, this would give Swordslayer a 13 hit advantage, but we're forgetting one thing, which is that if you're using a Swordslayer, you're probably going to be fighting someone with, duh, a sword. Anyone using a Swordslayer against a Hero with an axe equipped is just stupid, and I doubt a Hero would use a Sword against an axe user with a 'Slayer in inventory, except for finishing blows.

which attacks the least dodgy ones. WOW!

I really appreciate the amount of thought you put into this.

-Male Wyvern riders have a lower speed cap then either gender generals
-Female Wyvern riders have a lower speed cap then female generals, and tie male generals
-Male Bishops tie male generals, and have a lower speed cap then female generals
-At least one class, (Valkyrie) ties female generals in speed.

But I'm sure none of those count as being less dodgy, for some reason.

3. The Swordslayer has +5 Crit! Wow! This really makes a huge difference in any battle ever!

How many people here have ever critted or been critted on a 5% chance or less? I know I have, several times.

Quote:
 
4. The Swordslayer, which attacks extremely fast units, has a lower Wt than the Hammer, which attacks units that will likely be DAed anyhow.


Let's see... In order for a Berserker with a Hammer to DA a General, both with capped speed, the Berserker cannont lose a single point of AS. If it's a female General, then the 'Zerker can't, unless it's a female 'Zerker as well. Unless, of course, the General is weighed down, but with a con of 15 minimun, I doubt that'd happen very often.

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5. The Hammer has a lower weapon requirement than the Swordslayer, which makes about as much difference as the Swordslayer's amazing magical 5 Crit


As I said, axe EXP will go up faster then anything besides maybe Dark Magic, so 1 weapon level of axes is equivlent to crap.

Quote:
 
6. The Swordslayer has a reaver effect that can easily be turned against it, while armorbusters come in all three weapon varieties and thus can technically get a weapon triangle advantage over anything.


Splitting this up again...

6. The Swordslayer has a reaver effect that can easily be turned against it,

M'kay, so now the reaver effect is a Con, not a pro. Are you working with those people on the FEGB who say Vaida's CON is bad, becasue it lowers her AID?

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while armorbusters come in all three weapon varieties and thus can technically get a weapon triangle advantage over anything.


M'kay, so the 'busters are balanced, not favoring one type of weapon-user over another, while the Swordslayer glorifies Axe users, and doesn't have a counterpart giving Sword users anything. Yeah....

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7. The Swordslayer is an axe. There are buster weapons for all three weapon types (not counting the bow, obviously).


This differs from you last point... how, exactly? I'd give the same answer, anyway.

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Nate
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yeah

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Aww, but so many people enjoy using Swordslayers against Lances. I mean, that's just the smart thing to do.


I apologize for recognizing the existence of the Lancereaver. It apparently does not exist, so I must have been mistaken here.

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"Generally?" Not really. Only if the General in question is dumb enough to use a Lance against an axe user with a Hammer/doesn't have any other weapons.


You're right. Using a Lance against a sword-wielding Paladin would be a silly thing to do, and I would not recommend it ever. The same is true with an axe-wielder using a Swordreaver (or a Swordslayer, if they think its better stats are worth using it against something which it is not effective against.) Oops.

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I love how your points all fit together. You say "dodgiest characters in the game" later, but now you're talking about heroes, who have a so incredible 26 Speed cap. And that's just the reaver swap example. Such as, Sword attacks Axe, Axe switches to Lance, Sword switches to Lanceraver, Lance switches back to Axe, lather, rinse, repeat. It's a part of the game.


That's because I was saying here that the swordslayer does not always get a triangle advantage, an assumption that you appear to believe true. And about your last sentence...

Sword attacks Axe.
Swordslayer attacks Sword.
Lancereaver attacks Swordslayer.
Axe attacks Lance.

(Or, of course, if the guy's a Hero and intelligent, he starts with the Axe anyhow and uses that to avoid getting hit with a +30 Hit, +2 Mt Swordslayer. Of course, that assumes he's not fighting a Paladin, in which case things get more complicated a lot more quickly, but the Hero still comes out alright, if I remember correctly, and the Swordmaster can too with judicious use of reaver weapons.)

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Lancereaver = PWNT by normal axes. See my last answer. And, as I've repeatedly said, a General would be an idiot to use a Lance against a Hammer.


Even so, it just turns into the circle of wonder again, with axes getting completely owned by swords, etc., etc. Except the buster part, but you don't think busters are overpowered, remember?

Quote:
 
I wasn't saying 5 crit was a huge advantage, although it is better then your average weapon. And while you blame people about ignoring facts, maybe you should read the the part of the rules about reavers, which says something along the lines of "Reaver weapons give a +2/-2 MT and +30/-30 Hit". Hmm, unless you failed preschool, you should be able to tell that 1+2= 3


Funny how you assume that a General would never have a Lance against a Hammer but a Hero would always have a Sword against a Swordslayer. Last time I checked, 1 + 2 = 3 only when the 2 is there, and the three point advantage only exists if the Hammer is not also getting a triangle advantage, at which point it falls to two. But you conveniently forgot that, didn't you?

Quote:
 
Isn't that the same advantage an Armoslayer has over a Silver Sword? Strange, I remember you going on and on about how overpowered an Armoslayer was.


Um...how about "no"? The Armorslayer gets 16 Mt against armor, 14 with a triangle disadvantage. The Silver Sword gets 13 Mt, 12 with a triangle disadvantage. And you're the one talking about me being bad at math...funny that, isn't it?

Quote:
 
Hmm. You seem to be forgetting that those dodgy units rely on dodging, since they can't take a hit for crap. Male Generals cap speed 6 points lower then Swordmasters. That makes up for 12 points of dodge. Now, this would give Swordslayer a 13 hit advantage, but we're forgetting one thing, which is that if you're using a Swordslayer, you're probably going to be fighting someone with, duh, a sword. Anyone using a Swordslayer against a Hero with an axe equipped is just stupid, and I doubt a Hero would use a Sword against an axe user with a 'Slayer in inventory, except for finishing blows.


...so you're saying that no one would use a Swordslayer against a Hero (because any intelligent Hero facing a Swordslayer-wielding guy in the Arena would equip an Axe?) Well, that simplifies things.

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I really appreciate the amount of thought you put into this.


Thank you.

Quote:
 
-Male Wyvern riders have a lower speed cap then either gender generals


Shockingly, they have a buster weapon against them, too! An even better one, for that matter, with -4 Wt and +2 Mt.

Quote:
 
-Female Wyvern riders have a lower speed cap then female generals, and tie male generals


So...one unit that has a buster against it is slower against another? Should I use the copy-paste strategem here? Seriously, Wyvern Lords and Generals are in the same boat here.

And just to be an ass, let me just say that of course Wyvern Riders have a lower speed cap than Generals. They're unpromoted! *runs*

Quote:
 
-Male Bishops tie male generals, and have a lower speed cap then female generals
-At least one class, (Valkyrie) ties female generals in speed.


...so, they are the same amount undodgy, not less dodgy. To be honest, I didn't know that Bishops were that slow, but it doesn't affect my argument.

Quote:
 
But I'm sure none of those count as being less dodgy, for some reason.


That probably has something to do with the fact that, if I remember correctly, 24 is not lower than 24 and 25 not lower than 25.

Quote:
 
How many people here have ever critted or been critted on a 5% chance or less? I know I have, several times.


Still, it is hardly a significant feature.

Quote:
 
Let's see... In order for a Berserker with a Hammer to DA a General, both with capped speed, the Berserker cannont lose a single point of AS. If it's a female General, then the 'Zerker can't, unless it's a female 'Zerker as well. Unless, of course, the General is weighed down, but with a con of 15 minimun, I doubt that'd happen very often.


Wow! I could have sworn that units could, in fact, have more Con than their minimum! Amazing, isn't it?

And saying that all Generals will have 24/25 Speed is a distortion. Swordslayers shouldn't do that much to unpromoted Myrmidons, as they should have capped Defense at 20 anyway. Knights are sloooow, and the fact that General caps are inflated beyond the means of most Generals is common knowledge.

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As I said, axe EXP will go up faster then anything besides maybe Dark Magic, so 1 weapon level of axes is equivlent to crap.


That's what I just said...

Quote:
 
M'kay, so now the reaver effect is a Con, not a pro. Are you working with those people on the FEGB who say Vaida's CON is bad, becasue it lowers her AID?


Not a con, no, but not always a pro either.

Quote:
 
M'kay, so the 'busters are balanced, not favoring one type of weapon-user over another, while the Swordslayer glorifies Axe users, and doesn't have a counterpart giving Sword users anything. Yeah....


...no, what I'm saying is that...actually, this point was stupid, drop it.

Quote:
 
This differs from you last point... how, exactly? I'd give the same answer, anyway.


My last point was that armorbusters can technically get weapon triangles on more things than Swordslayers, but it was kind of a stupid point, so whatever. Responding to the point above that one...
...no, more like units weak to Swordslayers will only have to face them against axe-users, while armored units have to beware busters everywhere they go. (Except magic, which tends to devastate some Generals and not others.)

Note that I'm only talking about the Arena here. Obviously, in field battles with a decent amount of people the disadvantages of both busters and the Swordslayer (targets of opportunity for the other guys. Armorbusters are mediocre outside of busting armor, so they are a weaker target. Swordslayers attract Lances.) make them balanced enough. So that's why I'd be fine with just busters/Swordslayers banninated in arena battles.
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I apologize for recognizing the existence of the Lancereaver. It apparently does not exist, so I must have been mistaken here.


...What does that have to do with anything? You said Swordslayers are bad against lances. I said you'd have to be an idiot to use a Swordslayer against a lance anyway. I wasn't talking about the Lancereaver- DUH using a reaver can give you an advantage. That's the whole point of reavers.

Quote:
 
You're right. Using a Lance against a sword-wielding Paladin would be a silly thing to do, and I would not recommend it ever. The same is true with an axe-wielder using a Swordreaver (or a Swordslayer, if they think its better stats are worth using it against something which it is not effective against.) Oops.


Note what I said. I didn't say anything about swords or Paladins? once there, where the hell did you get sword wielding Paladins from? I'm saying a Hammer isn't going to have a triangle bonus against a General "most of the time" because Generals can uses axes.

Quote:
 
That's because I was saying here that the swordslayer does not always get a triangle advantage, an assumption that you appear to believe true. And about your last sentence...

Sword attacks Axe.
Swordslayer attacks Sword.
Lancereaver attacks Swordslayer.
Axe attacks Lance.

(Or, of course, if the guy's a Hero and intelligent, he starts with the Axe anyhow and uses that to avoid getting hit with a +30 Hit, +2 Mt Swordslayer. Of course, that assumes he's not fighting a Paladin, in which case things get more complicated a lot more quickly, but the Hero still comes out alright, if I remember correctly, and the Swordmaster can too with judicious use of reaver weapons.)


You repeated exactly what I said, with a different example. DUH. Switching weapons to get an advantage is an obvious part of the game. Yet that doesn't stop Swordslayers from being better then any other reaver or any other buster. And before you go twisting my words against me... even when the sword guy has a triangle advantage, which is only half the time, he's still getting hit by that double damage. Double damage with more MT and a lower DEF cap then any slayer weapon vs a General, I might add.

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Even so, it just turns into the circle of wonder again, with axes getting completely owned by swords, etc., etc. Except the buster part, but you don't think busters are overpowered, remember?


You seem to be forgetting that the Swordslayer has two effects, not one. It reaves, and it does double damage. 'Busters do one of those. Reavers do one of those. And neither have the 'Slayer's stats.

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Funny how you assume that a General would never have a Lance against a Hammer but a Hero would always have a Sword against a Swordslayer. Last time I checked, 1 + 2 = 3 only when the 2 is there, and the three point advantage only exists if the Hammer is not also getting a triangle advantage, at which point it falls to two. But you conveniently forgot that, didn't you?


Quote:
 
Um...how about "no"? The Armorslayer gets 16 Mt against armor, 14 with a triangle disadvantage. The Silver Sword gets 13 Mt, 12 with a triangle disadvantage. And you're the one talking about me being bad at math...funny that, isn't it?


So I misrembered Armorslayer's MT. Big. ****ing. Deal.

And just so you know, it's better to be wrong, and to be corrected, then to correct someone wrongly, and be recorrected.

It's because of which triangles are being noted. A General will never have to take a disadvantage from a Hammer weilder. Neither will a Hero, but a Hero has a lot less options. Why? Well, let's say our friendly neighborhood General has a Swordslayer equipped. No matter what, the Hero's taking double damage. The only way for him to have a triangle advantage is with a Lancereaver, which the General can counter with a normal Axe. A Hero here has two options to get out of the triangle disadvantage- switch to a sword (an Armorslayer, maybe), or switch to an axe (a hammer, maybe). Or they could switch to a Swordreaver, which would be triangle neutral, but then they'd get thwacked with a lance. Which they'd counter with a Hammer, and then go to axereaver, and so on. A Hero with a Sword'll get hit by that Swordslayer. A Hero with an Axe'll get hit by an Axereaver. Either way, the Hero's screwed. Why? Because the 'Slayer does two effects at once, while the Hero has to pick between one or another. (Of course, a Hero could use a Swordlslayer against the General, but that wouldn't give them any dandy double MT).

Quote:
 
...so you're saying that no one would use a Swordslayer against a Hero (because any intelligent Hero facing a Swordslayer-wielding guy in the Arena would equip an Axe?) Well, that simplifies things.


Well, I was actually wrong there, but you proved my point for me, which is that a Hero is just ****ing screwed either way.

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Shockingly, they have a buster weapon against them, too! An even better one, for that matter, with -4 Wt and +2 Mt


That's a moot point. I'm countering your argument that "OMG GENERALZ CANT DODGE BETTER DEN NOONE THEY SCREWED!"

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So...one unit that has a buster against it is slower against another? Should I use the copy-paste strategem here? Seriously, Wyvern Lords and Generals are in the same boat here.


It only proves your bias that you only defend Wyvern Lords when someone else brings it up. *notes that you haven't mentioned Horseslayers at all*

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And just to be an ass, let me just say that of course Wyvern Riders have a lower speed cap than Generals. They're unpromoted! *runs*


You don't really have to go out of your way to be an ass, that comes naturally for you. It's nice to see you put effort into it, though. Keep up the hard work.

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That probably has something to do with the fact that, if I remember correctly, 24 is not lower than 24 and 25 not lower than 25.


You conveniently forgot that 24 is lower then 25. And IIRC, Ceine is female, anyway.

Quote:
 
Still, it is hardly a significant feature.


1/20. You'll, on average, get a crit solely from that boost once per weapon.

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Wow! I could have sworn that units could, in fact, have more Con than their minimum! Amazing, isn't it?

And saying that all Generals will have 24/25 Speed is a distortion. Swordslayers shouldn't do that much to unpromoted Myrmidons, as they should have capped Defense at 20 anyway. Knights are sloooow, and the fact that General caps are inflated beyond the means of most Generals is common knowledge.


Wow! I could've sworn that you could put you free points and growths wherever you wanted, allowing Generals to cap speed!

Saying that all Axers will have higher then the base con and no generals will cap speed is completely wrong. It depends on who puts their points where. It's all circumstantial- Speed is arguably the most important stat in the game; we're not going to tailor the game to fit with your uncapped speed.

All your other points mostly made sense.
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yeah

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You repeated exactly what I said, with a different example. DUH. Switching weapons to get an advantage is an obvious part of the game. Yet that doesn't stop Swordslayers from being better then any other reaver or any other buster. And before you go twisting my words against me... even when the sword guy has a triangle advantage, which is only half the time, he's still getting hit by that double damage. Double damage with more MT and a lower DEF cap then any slayer weapon vs a General, I might add.

What I'm saying is that, other than the 2x Mt, which you appear to not think overpowered judging by your defense of busters, the Hero doesn't really have that bad of a deal.

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You seem to be forgetting that the Swordslayer has two effects, not one. It reaves, and it does double damage. 'Busters do one of those. Reavers do one of those. And neither have the 'Slayer's stats.

To be fair, the Swordreaver almost has the Swordslayer's stats, just -15 Hit. And the Hammer is kind of a bad example, as it is an awful weapon other than its x2 damage; the Heavy Spear is much better. And so the Swordslayer can be put in the place where a reaver would go with a nice x2 Mt, but its reaverlike tendencies mean that it can be dealt with like a very powerful reaver weapon.

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So I misrembered Armorslayer's MT. Big. ****ing. Deal.

And just so you know, it's better to be wrong, and to be corrected, then to correct someone wrongly, and be recorrected.

And it is best not to be wrong at all. :P

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It's because of which triangles are being noted. A General will never have to take a disadvantage from a Hammer weilder.

And here is where those crazy sword-wielding Paladins come into play. They can get a weapon triangle advantage against the General's axe, forcing them to switch to a lance and get hammered. Incidentally, Hector can do the same thing, but there aren't many Hectors in the FEABL.

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Neither will a Hero, but a Hero has a lot less options. Why? Well, let's say our friendly neighborhood General has a Swordslayer equipped. No matter what, the Hero's taking double damage. The only way for him to have a triangle advantage is with a Lancereaver, which the General can counter with a normal Axe. A Hero here has two options to get out of the triangle disadvantage- switch to a sword (an Armorslayer, maybe), or switch to an axe (a hammer, maybe). Or they could switch to a Swordreaver, which would be triangle neutral, but then they'd get thwacked with a lance. Which they'd counter with a Hammer, and then go to axereaver, and so on. A Hero with a Sword'll get hit by that Swordslayer. A Hero with an Axe'll get hit by an Axereaver. Either way, the Hero's screwed. Why? Because the 'Slayer does two effects at once, while the Hero has to pick between one or another. (Of course, a Hero could use a Swordlslayer against the General, but that wouldn't give them any dandy double MT).

Let me map out the scenario. (Note that I am not mapping out a scenario in which the General just pulls out a Swordslayer on the Hero's axe, as that's just a normal buster scenario with a slightly better weapon.)

1. The General attacks a Hammer-wielding Hero with an axereaver.
2. The Hero responds with an Armorslayer.
3. The General, naturally, pulls out his Swordslayer and starts whacking the Hero with it.
4. The Hero responds with a Lancereaver.
5. The General attacks with a regular Axe.
6. The Hero responds with an Armorslayer...

The General gets:
6 attacks in total
2 attacks with x2 Mt
3 attacks on the top side of a reaver triangle
2 attacks on the bottom side of a reaver triangle
1 attack on the bottom side of a regular triangle

The Hero gets:
6 attacks in total
4 attacks with x2 Mt
2 attacks on the top side of a reaver triangle
3 attacks on the bottom side of a reaver triangle
1 attack on the bottom side of a regular triangle

This looks fairly even. Of course, it doesn't take into account the Swordslayer's superior stats, but it is a fairly close approximation.

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That's a moot point. I'm countering your argument that "OMG GENERALZ CANT DODGE BETTER DEN NOONE THEY SCREWED!"

It only proves your bias that you only defend Wyvern Lords when someone else brings it up. *notes that you haven't mentioned Horseslayers at all*

This is why I'm only defending Generals, because I feel qualified to defend them. I'm obviously not qualified to defend Wyvern Lords :D and I'd probably screw up Paladins too. Now that I look at the Dragonbusters, though, Wyverns get an even worse deal, because the Dragonbusters are decent weapons in their own right, even not taking into consideration the x2 Mt bonus against wyverns.

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You don't really have to go out of your way to be an ass, that comes naturally for you. It's nice to see you put effort into it, though. Keep up the hard work.

To be honest, we're both being asses here, so we should probably at least stop being rude. We won't, but we should.

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You conveniently forgot that 24 is lower then 25. And IIRC, Ceine is female, anyway.

...Generals are still on the lowest tier of speed. (Well, except Wyvern Lords. But still, they get doubled by a lot, even with the capped speed that they will likely not have.) And Ceine is also a knight, IIRC, so she has a speed cap of 20.

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1/20. You'll, on average, get a crit solely from that boost once per weapon.

Not counting enemies with so much luck that the 5 Crit won't even come into play, which do exist. Apparently, though, we have differing definitions of significant.

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Wow! I could've sworn that you could put you free points and growths wherever you wanted, allowing Generals to cap speed!

Saying that all Axers will have higher then the base con and no generals will cap speed is completely wrong. It depends on who puts their points where. It's all circumstantial- Speed is arguably the most important stat in the game; we're not going to tailor the game to fit with your uncapped speed.

Well, obviously. However, it seems like when I read your points, you are assuming that a General will cap Speed and Defense to allow them to shrug off buster weapons, as well as Strength and Skill to allow them to assault poor Heroes and Swordmasters just into their prime with Swordslayers. I've taken the license of saying that most Generals will have poor speed for the same reason you assumed that Tom would die easily to a Swordslayer.

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All your other points mostly made sense.

Same. And we really need to be more civilized with these debates, both of us...honestly, our opinions on the usage of Swordslayers and Armorbusters have no relation to our intelligence. Unfortunately, I doubt we will...
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Medi, you keep talking about heroes. I haven't heard you say anything about thieves or myrmidons, or mercinaries, or assasains, or swordmasters.
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Nate
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yeah

Oh, those poor thieves/assassins, which, IIRC, don't get affected by the x2 Mt of the Swordslayer...

...I think... <.<
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They still get Reavered by a very powerful weapon. The Swordslayer has betters stats then any other Buster or Reaver weapon.
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yeah

Well, yeah, but it's hardly overpowered, considering that it's just 15 Hit more than a Swordreaver. Thieves/Assassins are hurt somewhat, but they don't get hit with an x2.
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