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And FE8 Tiers; Since the other one is so popular
Topic Started: Nov 2 2006, 12:32 AM (311 Views)
WJC


This topic is like the other one except for FE8. ya rly

Top Tier:
Colm
Franz
Vanessa
Lute
Ephraim
Tana
Moulder

High Tier:
Gerik
Gilliam
Kyle
Forde
Eirika
Artur
Natasha
Neimi

Middle Tier:
Cormag
Joshua
Seth
Ross
Garcia
L'Arachel
Duessel

Low Tier:
Saleh
Innes
Knoll
Amelia
Marisa

Bottom Tier:
Syrene
Dozla
Ewan

Characters within the tiers are roughly ordered, just like the other topic. Discuss, lawl.
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Soul
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Ooh, my head is spinning...

I don't see how Colm could be the best unit there is
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[00:55] Apejack Cuba: someone sig that

Medi in diplomacy
 
And why should I trust your ability? You have very consistently been losing ground to the Germans, regardless of whether I've been on your side or not. What you're telling me is that I have a dilemma: either I can fight you and see you lose all of your SCs to Germany, or I can fight Germany and see you lose all of your SCs to Germany.
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Nate
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yeah

Wow, this topic is getting a far more feabl response than the FE7 one is.
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[00:47] Gigs: nothing on feabl is drama worthy
[00:47] Gigs: and yet...


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iammax
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o_O

Tana? Top Tier?
If she's top, so is Cormag. What route is this?

And Seth >>>>> Forde
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

Why is Vanessa over Lute and Knoll too far from rock bottom? <_<
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Silly Tee
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It's his eyebrows. They're hypnotic, I swear.

Why the heck is Amelia so low down?
Do you know how much she pwns as a general?
The speed, the str, the def, it´s PERFECT! PERFECT YOU HEAR ME?!
LTC
Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM
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all hail to the Fishy one :D
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SpeakerOfTheStars
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Prepare yourself!

WJC
Nov 1 2006, 06:32 PM
This topic is like the other one except for FE8.  ya rly

Top Tier:
Colm
Franz
Vanessa
Lute
Ephraim
Tana
Moulder

High Tier:
Gerik
Gilliam
Kyle
Forde
Eirika
Artur
Natasha
Neimi

Middle Tier:
Cormag
Joshua
Seth
Ross
Garcia
L'Arachel
Duessel

Low Tier:
Saleh
Innes
Knoll
Amelia
Marisa

Bottom Tier:
Syrene
Dozla
Ewan

Characters within the tiers are roughly ordered, just like the other topic. Discuss, lawl.

Is this based on personal experience, or what?

Names in bold are those I have a problem with.

I'll get around to exactly why in a bit.
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Silly Tee
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It's his eyebrows. They're hypnotic, I swear.

*hasn´t seen Ewan before*
o_o
*jumps off cliff*
why is he so low? ;_;
LTC
Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM
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all hail to the Fishy one :D
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

I think it considers usefulness greatly. A lot of those have terrible join times/levels.
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Abyssal_Shrimp
I broke my shades!

What KJ said. I'll take Lute or Artur over Ewan anyday, same for Franz or Gilliam over Amelia.

Oh, and Amelia does NOT have generalish Def. 30% growth with a 2 base doesn't cut it. Plus, the Knight class is horrible, so I'd much rather have her a cavalier anyway. 7 move + Swords/Lances FTW.

Kyle and Forde are pretty much tied, so it makes sense they're on the same tier.

And, L'Arachel higher than Saleh? I guess Ephraim route doesn't help Saleh, but even then, I'm not sure. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that.
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Silly Tee
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It's his eyebrows. They're hypnotic, I swear.

Hm....
Guess all my Amelias were just blessed then...*had them with 28 def*
LTC
Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM
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all hail to the Fishy one :D
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Abyssal_Shrimp
I broke my shades!

lemme see... At 10/20/20, as a General Amelia's gonna average... 21 Def or so, IIRC. And you don't reach 10/20/20 in FE8 unless you powerlevel with the Tower/Ruins, and at 10/20/10, she's at 18 Def, which ain't much.

Yeah, yours were blessed. >_>
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Silly Tee
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It's his eyebrows. They're hypnotic, I swear.

<_<
Bleh
I find 21 def enough
>_>
maybe not much for a general, but in FE8 everything´s overly weak ANYWAY
AH, forget it, haven´t played it for too long x_X
LTC
Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM
Last night I had a dream that my children would not be judged by the color of their usernames, but by the content of their posts.


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all hail to the Fishy one :D
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Spotted Zebra
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Feeling spritely.

With Amelia, it really depends on what you promote her to. Judging from what I know, she'd make a much better paladin than general, but paladins in FE8 aren't really all that great.

Anyway, L'Arachel may be a healer and therefore a pain to train, but she's one of the better magicians in the game. I've seen her max everything but HP and defense.

Maybe I've just gotten a really, really BAD Moulder, but even with the early join time, he pales in comparison to every other magician in the game, including Knoll and Saleh, and his mustache doesn't redeem him enough. He really belongs in one of the two lower tiers, IMO....
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Bears


Where's Rennac?

Also, here's what was on LotS, with some edits. It's what I'd say is more accurate.

Highest Tier
Ephraim Route Ephraim
Eirika Route Eirika
Gilliam
Colm
Lute
Franz
Eirika Route Gerik
Tethys

High Tier
Eirika Route Ephraim
Ephraim Route Eirika
Vanessa
Ephraim Route Cormag
Ephraim Route Gerik
Seth
Moulder
Neimi
Tana
Natasha
Garcia
Ross

Medium Tier
Kyle
Artur
Joshua
Ephraim Route Duessel
Amelia
Forde
Eirika Route Saleh
Eirika Route Cormag
L'Arachel
Eirika Route Innes

Low Tier
Marisa
Eirika Route Duessel
Dozla
Ephraim Route Saleh
Rennac
Ephraim Route Innes

Lowest Tier
Dozla
Ewan
Knoll
Syrene

I could see Tana in High Tier, but Highest? I can't see how you could put her over, say, Gilliam. There's no ordering in these tiers, by the way.
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4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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Crimmy
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sausages, nanako

Wait, what? Why is Ewan at the bottom tier?
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Crimson Archer
Nov 2 2006, 04:56 PM
Wait, what? Why'd Ewan at bottom tier?

Uhh, while he ends up great stat-wise on average, check his joining level and stats. Then compare his stats to any enemy on the chapter you get him.

Do you see what I'm getting at?
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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Crimmy
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sausages, nanako

Squid Vicious
Nov 2 2006, 02:57 PM
Crimson Archer
Nov 2 2006, 04:56 PM
Wait, what? Why'd Ewan at bottom tier?

Uhh, while he ends up great stat-wise on average, check his joining level and stats. Then compare his stats to any enemy on the chapter you get him.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Like that is even a issue in FE8. He can easily be power leveled in Valni.
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

Tiers ignore Valni abuse. Like they ignore arena/boss/RNG abuse. Those kinda defeat the point, y'know?
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KJ456
Nov 2 2006, 05:03 PM
Tiers ignore Valni abuse. Like they ignore arena/boss/RNG abuse. Those kinda defeat the point, y'know?

'Zactly. Any unit can become a god through Tower/Arena abuse, so they make the comparison unfair.
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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Crimmy
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sausages, nanako

Hmm, I did'nt know that. Carry on. But could'nt the same be said for the other Trainies?
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

Amelia joins considerably earlier, but is still pretty low. Ross... joins very early. >_>
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Crimmy
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sausages, nanako

KJ456
Nov 2 2006, 03:08 PM
Amelia joins considerably earlier, but is still pretty low. Ross... joins very early. >_>

Ross can abuse the walls with his Hatchet in Chapter 4, so de gets a edge on EXP.
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Bears


You mean Chapter 3, which was probably designed specifically to level Ross. It seems like it, at least...
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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Crimmy
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sausages, nanako

Crap, it was Chapter 3. Sorry, my mistake.
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Bears


No big deal, I'm just in an anal-retentive mood today, going about correcting everyone on everything. <_<
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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WJC


Quote:
 
I don't see how Colm could be the best unit there is


It’s highly debatable. On GFAQs we ended up with Eph Route Ephraim on top and Franz/Colm tied for 2nd place. I feel that Colm’s abilities are truly irreplaceable, while using Kyle/Forde instead of Franz isn’t *that* big of a step down. Of course, others will feel differently, and their positions will most likely be justified; like I said, the very best unit in FE8 is extremely debatable, much moreso than in FE7.

Quote:
 
Tana? Top Tier?
If she's top, so is Cormag. What route is this?


Both. And both Pegs own Cormag, even on Eph Route(especially Vanessa, at many points a Supported Vanessa has something like 30 points of Dodge over Cormag, that’s massive).

Quote:
 
Why is Vanessa over Lute and Knoll too far from rock bottom? <_<


Vanessa vs Lute is arguable as well. I generally find that they have comparable offense with Vanessa having significantly better defense; there are, of course, arguments to be made in Lute’s favor, as well.

As for Knoll. Well, if you’ve got a smaller team(say, 8 or 9 units), he can be promoted at LvL 10 into a Summoner as soon as he joins and at least be a decent filler unit by pumping out Phantoms from behind the lines. Otherwise, yeah, he’d probably be the worst unit in the game.

Quote:
 
And, L'Arachel higher than Saleh? I guess Ephraim route doesn't help Saleh, but even then, I'm not sure. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that.


A combination of outrageous stats(her Luck is win) and Warp Staff, in my opinion. You should easily be able to get L’Arachel to 11/0 by Scorched Sand and then you can just promote her early, her stats are so high that she can usually perform regardless. Observe:

11/1 MK L’Arachel
24.6 Hp
12.0 Mag
10.6 Skl
13.6 Spd
17.2 Luck
8.2 Def
14.0 Res
6 Con

??/2 Saleh
30.0 Hp
16.0 Mag
18.0 Skl
14.0 Spd
11.0 Luck
8.0 Def
13.0 Res
8 Con

L’Arachel’s 6 Dodge offsets Saleh’s 5 Hp. At this point, yeah, Saleh is probably better due to the higher Mag, but he doesn’t stay on top for very long. Thanks to the Warp Staff, L’Arachel will probably end around LvL 17 promoted, while Saleh’s at 11 promoted, 12 on a good day. We’ll throw Saleh a bone and just say L’Arachel finishes at LvL 15 promoted.

11/15 MK L’Arachel
30.9 Hp
19.0 Mag
16.9 Skl
19.8 Spd
26.3 Luck
10.3 Def
21.0 Res
6 Con

??/11 Saleh
34.5 Hp
18.7 Mag
20.3 Skl
17.6 Spd
14.6 Luck
10.7 Def
16.1 Res
8 Con

4 Hp vs 2 AS and 16 Dodge, no contest at all.

Eph Route puts Saleh at higher general Levels postpromotion, but it also eliminates the 3 Chapters before L’Arachel promotes and after Saleh joins during which he is undeniably better. Supports seal the deal, L’Arachel can viably Support Ephraim, Eirika and Joshua, while Saleh really has nothing(Gerik and Eirika have better options most of the time, one of Eirika’s being L’Arachel), especially on Eph Route.

Quote:
 
Where's Rennac?


Damn, knew I’d forget someone. Let’s stick him between Amelia and Knoll to start off?

Quote:
 
I could see Tana in High Tier, but Highest? I can't see how you could put her over, say, Gilliam.


Gilliam’s offense flat-out sucks, Tana’s defense is not bad by any means. Worse than Gilliam’s, yes for sure, but her offense also rapes Gilliam’s. Later on, she’s arguably more durable, and maintains the offensive rapage from start to finish.

As for dividing units into different units based on Route, that’s not a bad idea, but I think just keeping everyone as individual entities makes it more interesting.
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Shire Guardian
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Tink a link

I don't like the idea of splitting them up based on the two different routes. I agree that it makes it more interesting, and if a character is good in one route and sucks in another, I think it should count as a strike against the character as a whole.
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Bears


I'd say that splitting them up by route makes it more accurate.
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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iammax
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I don't see how both pegs own Cormag.

Probably because I can't remember their affinities/support lists...
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Zap
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yeah

WJC
Nov 1 2006, 08:32 PM
This topic is like the other one except for FE8. ya rly

Top Tier:
Colm
Franz
Vanessa
Lute
Ephraim
Tana
Moulder

High Tier:
Gerik
Gilliam
Kyle
Forde
Eirika
Artur
Natasha
Neimi

Middle Tier:
Cormag
Joshua
Seth
Ross
Garcia
L'Arachel
Duessel

Low Tier:
Saleh
Innes
Knoll
Amelia
Marisa

Bottom Tier:
Syrene
Dozla
Ewan

Characters within the tiers are roughly ordered, just like the other topic. Discuss, lawl.

Wow, do I got lots to say here.


First off, top tier:

Colm
Franz
Vanessa
Lute
Ephraim
Tana
Moulder


... COLM? I'm sorry, I know he's useful for stealing stuff and picking locks and all that, but he's not THAT useful. Growths included, I'd say somewhere in the lower High Tier or the upper Middle Tier. Lockpicking will only get him so far.

Neither class Franz can promote into has caps good enough to justify second best. He still scores lots of points for usefulness, though, so just put him lower down on the top tier.

Vanessa... no. Just no. Drop her down, lots. Joining early really doesn't help offset just how horribly weak she turns out (IIRC, it's been a while since I've looked at FE8 growths).

Lute's just about where she should be, IMO.

Ephraim could use a second usable weapon to help make up for unextrodinary caps (like a certain FE7 Lord with identical caps), but he's absolutely insane early game, and is still awesome later on. Keep him right there.

Tana... eh, like Franz, she scores points for usefulness. Leave her where she is.

Moulder should be moved up a little bit, but he's easily one of my favorite spellcasters in FE8, so I'm biased here. That Con plus Excalibur equals KABOOM.


High tier:

Gerik
Gilliam
Kyle
Forde
Eirika
Artur
Natasha
Neimi

Gerik's in just about the right spot.

My initial reaction on Gilliam was to move him up to the top tier, but I remember how his Spd tends to go at first. He DAs little and probably won't do so for a long time if ever, so his usefulness does drop a bit. Leave him right there.

Kyle versus Forde is a pointless arguement. They're about even, so it comes down to personal preference. I'm not gonna argue them seperately, and they're in about the right place on the tier list.

Eirika... IMO, she's like an SM on a horse, and I've never witnessed the severe Str screwage I've heard so many people complaining about with her. Move her up to just below Gerik.

Artur... I absolutely loathe him, but I'm biased here. My Arturs ALWAYS suck, so I'll skip this point.

Natasha does a genuinely amazing job killing the many monster enemies of the game, and she doesn't fare too poorly against the human enemies, either. However, she's a healer before promotion, and her Supports aren't exactly the greatest, so she's good where she is.

Neimi's a decent enough character to warrant being just above Kyle/Forde. Promotion into Ranger gives her decent caps to work with plus sword usage, and if it weren't for being an archer before promotion, then she'd make the top tier easily.


Now, middle tier:

Cormag
Joshua
Seth
Ross
Garcia
L'Arachel
Duessel


Switch Cormag and Joshua around, kthx. They're both decent characters, but Joshua just pulverizes enemies in one hit far more often, and he doesn't need to be protected from those annoying arrows.

A lot of people would probably like to see Seth MUCH higher on the list, but quite frankly, his HP is poor. VERY poor. He's just fine right there.

Ross should be in the top tier, right above Natasha. He's extremely easy to train compared to the other trainees, and if you want a 'Zerker, it's either him or Dozla. No contest there.

Garcia's good right there.

L'Arachel... eh, no arguements from me.

Duessel? Ewwww. When you get him, he sucks the exp from your party, and when your party's at the level he comes at, he sucks. Punt him down to the bottom tier.


My only issue with the low tier is Marisa. She should be right below L'Arachal, not that low. She's essentially a Joshua Lite. Vanessa should be right below Innes.


For the bottom tier, I really think Dozla and Ewan should be switched around, since that while Ewan's a pain in the ass to level, Dozla's just outright crappy, and at least Ewan turns out decently in the long run. Duessel should be right below Syrene, and Rennac just below him.
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iammax
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In every debate we've had, Zap, Vanessa murders Tana. I don't go into those because I don't care much, but I just wanna point that out. >_>

IMO, Forde should swtch with Seth.
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Zap
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yeah

... then forget my point about Vanessa vs Tana, then. <_<;;;;;
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iammax
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Yeah, it's somtehing about Vanessa having a lot better supports and joining time, and tana's underleveled and stupid and annoying and isn't THAT much better statwise.
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Bears


Either one of them should, IMO. Or just move Seth up to High on his own.
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: "Alternate Universes".
4:24 PM - John Ѯzzingford: Taking an existing set of characters, and putting them in an altogether different setting.
4:25 PM - John Ѯzzingford: For example, you could take the cast of the Mario games, and set them up in some kind of detective-versus-cannibal-mastermind drama.
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iammax
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Maybe. And Kyle > Forde.
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

Am I the only one who's more annoyed by Vanessa's personality than Tana's? >_>
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Do not click. Do, however, click these at your leisure ('specially for stats): Gero, Terra, Tic, Nys'elni and Murphy.

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Vidoof
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BRAUGAGUGAUGUAUHGHAUHAU

Tiers... for a strategy game?!

This topic sucks and is n--(shot)
Alonzo - Arbiter: Hero (Retired)

Reginald - Aegis - Lv. 3 Gypsy (Rate his new sprites, please!)

Morana - Psychopomp - Lv. 2 Archer

Not really battling, unless some strange urge strikes me.

---
Quote:
 
Zombie Michael Jackson says:
Okay fine then. I hate you vid.

Quote:
 
Ketchup says:
You can always eat my meat!

Quote:
 
Gigs says:
vid i am going to murder you someday

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Eric says:
u kive yiy gyts L(
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iammax
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*lowers smoking OW ABOUT TRAINS*
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WJC


Quote:
 
... COLM? I'm sorry, I know he's useful for stealing stuff and picking locks and all that, but he's not THAT useful. Growths included, I'd say somewhere in the lower High Tier or the upper Middle Tier. Lockpicking will only get him so far.


Highest utility rating in the entire game, one of the best Support lists in the game, and not a shabby combatant at all(not the best you have, either, but he’s above-average and this is the only case where I’d argue that utility value is just as significant as combat ability). Moving down within Toptier, sure, if more people agree; moving him *out* of the tier, would require a more extensive argument against him.

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Neither class Franz can promote into has caps good enough to justify second best.


Caps don’t matter. There are cases to be made for Vanessa and Lute beating Franz, though.

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Vanessa... no. Just no. Drop her down, lots. Joining early really doesn't help offset just how horribly weak she turns out (IIRC, it's been a while since I've looked at FE8 growths).


Erm, what? Supported Vanessa has one of the best durability ratings in the game, and her offense is excellent as well(22 Atk + 27 Spd at 20/10).

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Joshua just pulverizes enemies in one hit far more often


Cormag has far more Str, higher Mt weapons, and better offense Supports, so I fail to see this.

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Ross should be in the top tier, right above Natasha. He's extremely easy to train compared to the other trainees, and if you want a 'Zerker, it's either him or Dozla. No contest there.


Berserker Ross is too slow to be a reliable attacker(only 16 Spd at 20/10? Ick, only Gilliam and Garcia are slower than that), has nothing to make up for it defense-wise, and is locked to a single weapon type(granted, the best weapon type). I don’t see how he is at all outstanding, much less toptier.

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Duessel should be right below Syrene, and Rennac just below him.\


Duessel is at least a good filler unit, Ewan isn’t worth training to begin with. And Duessel is for sure better than Syrene, who has awful stats for her joining time, whereas Duessel’s are excellent for Chapter 10 and still pretty good even for Chapter 15(if you take Eir Route).

More comments on all the stuff he had to say. If more people agree with him on an issue, it can probably be arranged.
Mior, LvL 1 Mage
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KJ456
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Ahahahaha- *snort* -hahahaha- *snort* -heheheh

I'm all for putting Lute above Franz and then lowering Colm a bit. Though I may be a bit biased. <_<
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Do not click. Do, however, click these at your leisure ('specially for stats): Gero, Terra, Tic, Nys'elni and Murphy.

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Banner by Shade.

Challenges open if I'm around, though you'd better be prepared to stat, 'cause I'm lazy.

My theme, according to the Mooney one.
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Mario123v2
Deep South Commando

On first glance, I'm tempted to say Rennac > Syrene. Rennac at least has utility value for two chapters (Father and Son/Queen of White Dunes and Last Hope), Syrene's filler for one and fails at it in HM.

EDIT: That was in reference to:

Can't remember who but I think it was Zap
 
Duessel should be right below Syrene, and Rennac just below him (Duecel).

The statement, of course, is Syrene > Duecel > Rennac. Remove Duecel from the picture and you have Syrene > Rennac. Hence, my post.
Zap
 
Also, a better line for what we did in Afganistan:

All your base are belong to U.S.

You, sir, win.
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