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Super Old School
Topic Started: Jan 23 2011, 01:55 AM (3,283 Views)
gatman
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The Greatest
spike
Jan 23 2011, 10:56 PM
I'm just being realistic. You guys put these people on a pedestal as if they were divine. I've seen a good amount of pro css matches. Sure, they are great but they still make mistakes and fail at times. The same applies to halo. We have been playing this game for quite a while. Most of you guys degrade yourselves as if you couldnt even touch these people if you were to play them.

Also, care to name some of "these players" that you guys keep talking about that were so outstanding.
No, you aren't being realistic, you don't even know how to time halo pc, yet alone play.
If you ever play someone who knows how to play the game decently well you will get shat on time after time.


I agree that if we went back in time with our current knowledge we would be better than they were at the time, but it is completely retarded taking a current situation and applying it to a past situation.
If we did that even Ghandi would be a racist to today's standards, you have to be 'realistic' and comprehend time.


However, with the attitude many professional gamers have, it would not take long at all to be better than the majority of players in this game. I mean look how many people complain about grenades/heavy weapons (chalutard), yet alone complain about things like timing powerups/weapons.

I like to think i know a fair bit about this game (just ask baddy or invert), and when players completely understand the game like clockwork (like professionals do) you have no chance unless you do too.
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spike
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Hype
Jan 23 2011, 11:06 PM
Actually spike let me put it to you this way. When the CGS decided to sponsor css over 1.6, all the top 1.6 teams switched over to source. Source had already been out for a few years, and it's very different from 1.6. Now, can you guess how many top css teams were able to contend with the 1.6 guys switching over? Two (EFG & Pandemic). CompLexity completely dominated the source scene in the matter of about two months, maybe less. However, I will admit that there were some other pure source teams that were able to compete, just not on quite the same level.
Okay so if cs 1.6 and css are very different, then where does that put halo? It's like what Chalupa said. An NFL player may be astounding at football but not be so great at basketball when he starts playing. However, if he switches to Rugby, he will be able to compete at a competitive level very soon considering both sports are pretty much alike. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you are athletic you will be able to get better at a certain sport much quicker than someone who is not . The same applies to gaming. If you are a good fps player or gamer in general, chances are you will be good at a similar game but it will take more time to adjust to a completely different game.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:14 PM
Hype
Jan 23 2011, 11:06 PM
Actually spike let me put it to you this way. When the CGS decided to sponsor css over 1.6, all the top 1.6 teams switched over to source. Source had already been out for a few years, and it's very different from 1.6. Now, can you guess how many top css teams were able to contend with the 1.6 guys switching over? Two (EFG & Pandemic). CompLexity completely dominated the source scene in the matter of about two months, maybe less. However, I will admit that there were some other pure source teams that were able to compete, just not on quite the same level.
Okay so if cs 1.6 and css are very different, then where does that put halo? It's like what Chalupa said. An NFL player may be astounding at football but not be so great at basketball when he starts playing. However, if he switches to Rugby, he will be able to compete at a competitive level very soon considering both sports are pretty much alike. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you are athletic you will be able to get better at a certain sport much quicker than someone who is not . The same applies to gaming. If you are a good fps player or gamer in general, chances are you will be good at a similar game but it will take more time to adjust to a completely different game.
Well CSS is a hell of a lot more competitive than Halo PC, lol. It would probably take top 1.6 teams a week to adjust and become dominant, maybe less.

The top source teams are the best out of around 500 other teams. The top Halo team is the best out of... 10? Probably less. I'm only counting the U.S. here, otherwise source would have a hell of a lot more teams.
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spike
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Sl1cK
Jan 23 2011, 11:11 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:01 PM
Actually I've had halo since dec of 04 buddy but I was like 10 back then.
Whoa, forgive me! I'm sure as a 10 year old you were actively observing competitive Halo PC between little league games.
Just because you existed in the era of "pro halo"(though you sucked) does not give you the ability to shun my reasoning.

This argument is useless because you cannot compare two different periods in time.
Edited by spike, Jan 23 2011, 11:19 PM.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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spike
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gatman
Jan 23 2011, 11:13 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 10:56 PM
I'm just being realistic. You guys put these people on a pedestal as if they were divine. I've seen a good amount of pro css matches. Sure, they are great but they still make mistakes and fail at times. The same applies to halo. We have been playing this game for quite a while. Most of you guys degrade yourselves as if you couldnt even touch these people if you were to play them.

Also, care to name some of "these players" that you guys keep talking about that were so outstanding.
No, you aren't being realistic, you don't even know how to time halo pc, yet alone play.
If you ever play someone who knows how to play the game decently well you will get shat on time after time.


I agree that if we went back in time with our current knowledge we would be better than they were at the time, but it is completely retarded taking a current situation and applying it to a past situation.
If we did that even Ghandi would be a racist to today's standards, you have to be 'realistic' and comprehend time.


However, with the attitude many professional gamers have, it would not take long at all to be better than the majority of players in this game. I mean look how many people complain about grenades/heavy weapons (chalutard), yet alone complain about things like timing powerups/weapons.

I like to think i know a fair bit about this game (just ask baddy or invert), and when players completely understand the game like clockwork (like professionals do) you have no chance unless you do too.
I'm well aware of the points you are trying to make. If you have a team that absolutely understands the clockwork of the game and can execute it correctly, they will have the upper hand at any instance in the game. The era of competitive halo is over though which is why people are not willing to sacrifice time and energy into learning such aspects of the game because it is not worth it. If halo was as popular as it was back then, we would all be attempting to learn such tricks to keep up with the competition. However, since no one is interested in doing it now, the plateau of competition has degraded and there is no need to go through such trouble to be able to beat the current opposition.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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Louie

there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
arcade
Jun 2 2010, 08:24 AM
blade you can post screenshots of you beating people like louie in 1v1s as much as you want (seriosly with your sound, set up, and stopwatch you shouldnt lose a 1v1) but it doesnt change the fact that he is 20x the player you are.
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spike
^_______________________^
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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gatman
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The Greatest
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:29 PM
If you have a team that absolutely understands the clockwork of the game and can execute it correctly, they will have the upper hand at any instance in the game.
Then you agree with me (and basically everyone else) when we say that professional gamers would slap the shit out of players today.

Argument over.


Just because halo isn't competitive anymore doesn't mean that people can't excel their abilities. And just because halo isn't competitive anymore doesn't mean that pro gamers wouldn't slap the shit out of you.
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Louie

spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:34 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
so what exactly is your point/position then
arcade
Jun 2 2010, 08:24 AM
blade you can post screenshots of you beating people like louie in 1v1s as much as you want (seriosly with your sound, set up, and stopwatch you shouldnt lose a 1v1) but it doesnt change the fact that he is 20x the player you are.
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spike
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gatman
Jan 23 2011, 11:39 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:29 PM
If you have a team that absolutely understands the clockwork of the game and can execute it correctly, they will have the upper hand at any instance in the game.
Then you agree with me (and basically everyone else) when we say that professional gamers would slap the shit out of players today.

Argument over.


Just because halo isn't competitive anymore doesn't mean that people can't excel their abilities. And just because halo isn't competitive anymore doesn't mean that pro gamers wouldn't slap the shit out of you.
All of us here are capable of learning the clockwork of the game. We simply do not go through the trouble of learning it because it is not necessary to beat the people who still play today. However, if it was needed, then I'm sure we would all go through the trouble of learning it but once again there is no incentive because Halo Pc is clearly dead.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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spike
^_______________________^
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:40 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:34 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
so what exactly is your point/position then
Did you just not read? There is no competition in halo anymore which is why no one goes through all the trouble of studying the game. There is no incentive.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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gatman
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The Greatest
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:41 PM
All of us here are capable of learning the clockwork of the game. We simply do not go through the trouble of learning it because it is not necessary to beat the people who still play today. However, if it was needed, then I'm sure we would all go through the trouble of learning it but once again there is no incentive because Halo Pc is clearly dead.
Sure, theoretically everyone is capable of learning a game.
You make it sound like i simply read an internet page and learned how to be better than most at halo.


Learning and understanding are important, but being able to put it into place is the important part.


The best teams put their knowledge into place better than others; Strategies, teamwork etc
This is what separates "professional" gamers from casual gamers, the will to learn and excel.

You just admitted you don't have that will, and irrationally as well, unless you are the best player left there is no fathomable reason to not further your understanding.
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spike
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gatman
Jan 23 2011, 11:46 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:41 PM
All of us here are capable of learning the clockwork of the game. We simply do not go through the trouble of learning it because it is not necessary to beat the people who still play today. However, if it was needed, then I'm sure we would all go through the trouble of learning it but once again there is no incentive because Halo Pc is clearly dead.
Sure, theoretically everyone is capable of learning a game.
You make it sound like i simply read an internet page and learned how to be better than most at halo.


Learning and understanding are important, but being able to put it into place is the important part.


The best teams put their knowledge into place better than others; Strategies, teamwork etc
This is what separates "professional" gamers from casual gamers, the will to learn and excel.

You just admitted you don't have that will, and irrationally as well, unless you are the best player left there is no fathomable reason to not further your understanding.
I don't like repeating myself but I just said that there is no incentive to get any better at halo because you win nothing out of it. What's the point of spending countless hours trying to get better at a game that you'll get nothing out of? Oh right...Nothing.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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Louie

spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:43 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:40 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:34 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
so what exactly is your point/position then
Did you just not read? There is no competition in halo anymore which is why no one goes through all the trouble of studying the game. There is no incentive.
i thought u said this game was simple
arcade
Jun 2 2010, 08:24 AM
blade you can post screenshots of you beating people like louie in 1v1s as much as you want (seriosly with your sound, set up, and stopwatch you shouldnt lose a 1v1) but it doesnt change the fact that he is 20x the player you are.
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gatman
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The Greatest
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:50 PM
I don't like repeating myself but I just said that there is no incentive to get any better at halo because you win nothing out of it. What's the point of spending countless hours trying to get better at a game that you'll get nothing out of? Oh right...Nothing.
What is the point in playing the game at all when you get nothing out of it?
Probably because you enjoy it right?
And guess what, when i played, i thoroughly enjoyed having to think constantly to play my best, having to comprehend enemy movement in correlation to weapon/powerup times. It is heavily rewarding to play 'beautifully' (properly), and so if you play the game for enjoyment then that is the incentive.
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spike
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HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:54 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:43 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:40 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:34 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
so what exactly is your point/position then
Did you just not read? There is no competition in halo anymore which is why no one goes through all the trouble of studying the game. There is no incentive.
i thought u said this game was simple
I'm pretty sure I said simple in comparison to a myriad of other games. I just take it you have nothing else to say and just posted that to say something.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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spike
^_______________________^
gatman
Jan 23 2011, 11:55 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:50 PM
I don't like repeating myself but I just said that there is no incentive to get any better at halo because you win nothing out of it. What's the point of spending countless hours trying to get better at a game that you'll get nothing out of? Oh right...Nothing.
What is the point in playing the game at all when you get nothing out of it?
Probably because you enjoy it right?
And guess what, when i played, i thoroughly enjoyed having to think constantly to play my best, having to comprehend enemy movement in correlation to weapon/powerup times. It is heavily rewarding to play 'beautifully' (properly), and so if you play the game for enjoyment then that is the incentive.
I guess I should have made myself a bit clearer. I was referring to extrinsic incentives such as prize money or competition from others not personal joy from just simply playing the game.


Edit: Bamboo must be writing a paper on the meaning of life.
Edited by spike, Jan 24 2011, 12:03 AM.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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gatman
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The Greatest
I've kind of lost what you are even arguing for, is it that if halo was competitive you would learn as fast and as well as the professional gamers?
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Bamboo r u typing up the history of halo pc

or did u get lost on the way to the 'Add Reply' button

;___________;
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spike
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gatman
Jan 24 2011, 12:05 AM
I've kind of lost what you are even arguing for, is it that if halo was competitive you would learn as fast and as well as the professional gamers?
The argument deviated off course. You can go back and check where that happened because I've simply been responding to whatever people have posted but basically professional halo players back then are overrated now compared to today's community. If competition still existed today we would have risen with it. I mean a lot of us have been playing for a good while now. However, since the competition has diminished, so has everyone else. Valid point right there. That's how everything works. If the plateau keeps rising, then so does everything else but the skill gap then starts to widen which is where competition comes into place because people at the bottom tier want to constantly get better to be able to compete with those above them.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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S k e p t i c
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Kitten Molester
Sl1cK
Jan 23 2011, 10:23 PM
God damn it. Just when spike stops posting, chalupa takes the idiot baton and runs like he is being chased by a pack of wild hyenas.
hahahaha, post of the thread
Havok: 48 pages of pcr...that beats my scrapbook
Grenade: 2pcrs would beat your scrapbook
Havok: put two zeros in front of that, then yea
Erosion: 002...

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our leader has abandoned the thread :(
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imnotflare

I feel like spike is saying "If I cared, I would be better, on par with any players of old".

Of course. That's the point. Modern players don't have as strong a desire to win games and be great on a team-level, as older players did. The existence of the whole 'AHH GET A CLIP' HPT meme, or that scrimages are seen as garbage, or that timing items is (or perhaps was) scorned upon (or just unknown), is testament that priorties are different now. The natural consequence is that newer players will always be worse on the whole. Things like aim, i imagine, are today on par if not better, but halo's cool and 'deep' imo because its not exactly an aim-only game; has the potential/complexity for so much more...

People ought think of the issue in terms of teams too rather than individual players. Teamwork is such a huge aspect when you're at a competitive, everyone-cares-a-whole-lot kinda high level, even in 2v2s let alone 5v5s.

Older teams were 'better' because they cared, and took the steps a caring person would like literally sitting down and talking about all sorts of strategies for all sorts of circumstance for hours on end, learning the details, knowing all the weapon and powerup timings of the game and basing tactics off that, discussing and learning halo, practicing specific aspects, knowing spawns, spawn traps, nade tricks, playing all sorts of maps beyond co/caro 2v2 and sw/dc/bg 4v4...

Those that put the most deliberate effort and time into something, are the best, more or less. That's what I believe. Modern halo players on the whole don't have a great desire to put deliberate effort into 'the dead game'. Its not a right-or-wrong thing, that's just how it is.

but personally one of my favorite parts of halo was just thinking about halo things, then trying specifically to incorporate those thoughts into my or my team's play... always getting a little better...
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S k e p t i c
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Kitten Molester
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:43 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:40 PM
spike
Jan 23 2011, 11:34 PM
HPT-4
Jan 23 2011, 11:33 PM
there's a difference between just playing the game and actually studying it; pro gamers excel at picking up new games and being good at them as soon as they come out.

when was the last time you actually sat down, studied, and practiced this game? it sounds nerdy but that's what these people would be doing 20 hours out of the day
Read my preceding post. I listed the answer to that there.
so what exactly is your point/position then
Did you just not read? There is no competition in halo anymore which is why no one goes through all the trouble of studying the game. There is no incentive.
my mother always told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all

also gatman, i feel we are on the same page dude, why play this game if you don't wanna continue improving at it? The addicting part of halo is you can be like aqua and be godlike with the sniper and still suck eggs at capping, there's always room to improve! Hurray for halo
Edited by S k e p t i c, Jan 24 2011, 12:51 AM.
Havok: 48 pages of pcr...that beats my scrapbook
Grenade: 2pcrs would beat your scrapbook
Havok: put two zeros in front of that, then yea
Erosion: 002...

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spike
^_______________________^
imnotflare
Jan 24 2011, 12:44 AM
I feel like spike is saying "If I cared, I would be better, on par with any players of old".

Of course. That's the point. Modern players don't have as strong a desire to win games and be great on a team-level, as older players did. The existence of the whole 'AHH GET A CLIP' HPT meme, or that scrimages are seen as garbage, or that timing items is (or perhaps was) scorned upon (or just unknown), is testament that priorties are different now. The natural consequence is that newer players will always be worse on the whole. Things like aim, i imagine, are today on par if not better, but halo's cool and 'deep' imo because its not exactly an aim-only game; has the potential/complexity for so much more...

People ought think of the issue in terms of teams too rather than individual players. Teamwork is such a huge aspect when you're at a competitive, everyone-cares-a-whole-lot kinda high level, even in 2v2s let alone 5v5s.

Older teams were 'better' because they cared, and took the steps a caring person would like literally sitting down and talking about all sorts of strategies for all sorts of circumstance for hours on end, learning the details, knowing all the weapon and powerup timings of the game and basing tactics off that, discussing and learning halo, practicing specific aspects, knowing spawns, spawn traps, nade tricks, playing all sorts of maps beyond co/caro 2v2 and sw/dc/bg 4v4...

Those that put the most deliberate effort and time into something, are the best, more or less. That's what I believe. Modern halo players on the whole don't have a great desire to put deliberate effort into 'the dead game'. Its not a right-or-wrong thing, that's just how it is.

but personally one of my favorite parts of halo was just thinking about halo things, then trying specifically to incorporate those thoughts into my or my team's play... always getting a little better...
Couldn't have been said any better.
aa: lol
aa: well i wud go for A's too but when i study it doesn't help me
aa: cuz the only stuff that re stuck in my head about something
aa: will be the only thing stuck
Spike: what

Baddy: want's isn't a word?
Baddy: because I'm pretty sure it is
Baddy: ?
Baddy: want plural
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