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NBA Playoffs 2013; Predictions
Topic Started: Apr 19 2013, 05:56 PM (13,532 Views)
Remedy
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this just in duncan most underrated of all time
BaMbOo
May 5 2011, 12:35 PM
idk has the best forum trolls

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Paul George

Duncan is not the best PF of all-time. He's one of the best for sure, but throwing 'best PF' of all time around is just not fair. Have to give him credit. The ability to change his game and his body to be able to handle a grueling season and still put up phenomenal numbers is nothing to take lightly.
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Erosion
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I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
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king shawn
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-4 Rings ( about to get 5th)
- three-time NBA Finals MVP ( about to get 4th)
- two-time NBA MVP
- 13-time All-NBA selection
- 13-time NBA All-Defensive Team selection
- 13-time NBA All-Star
- NBA Rookie of the Year
- NBA All-Rookie Team
- ninth all-time in defensive rebounds in NBA history
- ninth all-time in blocks in NBA history































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Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
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king shawn
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Paul George
Jun 7 2013, 05:47 PM
Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships?




people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
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Skyson
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YOU'RE A DALLAS FAN HAHAHAHAA

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Tunechi
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nothing to see here folks trollqua at his finest. duncan not the the best pf to ever play the game? my god, this nigga must be sippin on dat lean
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#lucky`: ye you wouldn't be running because all you would be seeing is smoke from my tires and then smoke from your engine bc yo shitty ass cant keep up
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Tunechi
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#lucky`: ye you wouldn't be running because all you would be seeing is smoke from my tires and then smoke from your engine bc yo shitty ass cant keep up
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Skyson
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but what about dirk

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Tunechi
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members posting: paul george

here comes aqua with a troll post to support his troll claim so he can continue to troll
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#lucky`: ye you wouldn't be running because all you would be seeing is smoke from my tires and then smoke from your engine bc yo shitty ass cant keep up
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Paul George

king shawn
Jun 7 2013, 11:47 PM
Paul George
Jun 7 2013, 05:47 PM
Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships?




people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
The Jordan/LeBron comparison is not the same thing and even the people that make it about championships are just grasping at straws because they have little actual knowledge. Kobe has 5 rings and how much closer did those rings get him to Jordan? Shaq has 4 rings and no one even puts him in the same sentence as Hakeem, who only won two and they were when Jordan was gone. No offense to Duncan, but if you replace him with any of those guys I mentioned, the Spurs still win those titles. That's no fault of his, but don't act like Duncan's sheer greatness is the sole reason for the Spurs winning those titles.

And seriously, not going to address the real points of my post? Malone averaged 25-10 on 52% shooting in the regular season and playoffs over 18 seasons and he didn't have good complementary players like Ginobili, Parker, and Robinson to take the load off. It was him and Stockton and a collection of solid players. Barkley averaged 23-12 on 54% shooting as a 6'6 4 with less than stellar team mates most of his career as well. Nevermind that both of these guys played in Jordan's prime. Garnett was never on a team that had a prayer of competing for a championship and he still put up equal numbers while in Minnesota. The best player he played with in Minnesota was sadly probably Wall Sczcerbiak. As soon as he went to a legitimate title contender, he won a title. To act like Duncan would have gotten to the Conf Semis and beyond is even a stretch there.

I get that Duncan is your boy and I am not saying he doesn't belong with those guys, but let's not forget how good some of these guys were. Duncan might have a better legacy because of his titles but in terms of being the best 4 of all-time, I am not sure I agree.
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Erosion
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He is arguably the best 4 of all-time however.

Look at any list and it's always Duncan first, than a variation of Barkely, Malone, Garnett, Dirk, with McHale rarely breaching the top 5.


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king shawn
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Paul George
Jun 8 2013, 12:12 AM
king shawn
Jun 7 2013, 11:47 PM
Paul George
Jun 7 2013, 05:47 PM
Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships?




people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
The Jordan/LeBron comparison is not the same thing and even the people that make it about championships are just grasping at straws because they have little actual knowledge. Kobe has 5 rings and how much closer did those rings get him to Jordan? Shaq has 4 rings and no one even puts him in the same sentence as Hakeem, who only won two and they were when Jordan was gone. No offense to Duncan, but if you replace him with any of those guys I mentioned, the Spurs still win those titles. That's no fault of his, but don't act like Duncan's sheer greatness is the sole reason for the Spurs winning those titles.

And seriously, not going to address the real points of my post? Malone averaged 25-10 on 52% shooting in the regular season and playoffs over 18 seasons and he didn't have good complementary players like Ginobili, Parker, and Robinson to take the load off. It was him and Stockton and a collection of solid players. Barkley averaged 23-12 on 54% shooting as a 6'6 4 with less than stellar team mates most of his career as well. Nevermind that both of these guys played in Jordan's prime. Garnett was never on a team that had a prayer of competing for a championship and he still put up equal numbers while in Minnesota. The best player he played with in Minnesota was sadly probably Wall Sczcerbiak. As soon as he went to a legitimate title contender, he won a title. To act like Duncan would have gotten to the Conf Semis and beyond is even a stretch there.

I get that Duncan is your boy and I am not saying he doesn't belong with those guys, but let's not forget how good some of these guys were. Duncan might have a better legacy because of his titles but in terms of being the best 4 of all-time, I am not sure I agree.
dude you cannot be the best of all time with 0 titles, doesnt work like that. best player = superstar who leads team to championships,


and pretty sure Kobe ranks top 5 players of all time in anyone's list, up to par with Jordan, and lol @ Hakeem being better than Shaq. Shaq was a freak of nature, something no one has ever seen, got twice as many championships as Hakeem, which he got during Jordans retirement, and had was the reason Hack a _____, was invented.


so in other words, you cannot be a considered '' the best '' in your position, much less overal if you never actually won anything. Many great players have put up great stats, but few have created dynasty's.





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Erosion
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When Shaq was in college, a reporter was interviewing the opponents coach to ask him what kind of defense they planned on running against him. They were like well probably a box and 1.

The reporter is like well who is gonna be the 1 to guard shaq then? And the coach was like "no no no, you got it wrong, we're going to put the box on shaq and have the 1 guy run around guarding the other 4"

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Tunechi
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The 3 that can contend with duncan r kg, barkley, and malone. Being on the list of the greatest of all time means you have the stats and the rings/mvps/other accolades. Duncan is the only one out of the 4 to have both. end of discussion. Stupid ass point of "he was on such and such team." Well then lets knock bird and magic down a peg because of the greats they've played with? Technically hakeem should be the best considering he played with the shittiest team and won titles. You get the cards you dealt, it's how you play em that matters and duncan's done exactly that. robinson was 33 and 37 in the two titles he won with duncan and duncan was the finals mvp both years. as far as tony and manu 28th and 57th picks, ye you put those two on the utah jazz and they woulda been what they are today. BULLSHIT. oh and all 3 of those other greats played with their fair share of great players over their careers
oh and edit: aquas just mad that duncan and the spurs are gonna do what paul george and the pacers couldn't

:trollface:
Edited by Tunechi, Jun 8 2013, 01:59 AM.
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#lucky`: ye you wouldn't be running because all you would be seeing is smoke from my tires and then smoke from your engine bc yo shitty ass cant keep up
`K!lla߬: ok easy there paul walker
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Paul George

king shawn
Jun 8 2013, 01:02 AM
Paul George
Jun 8 2013, 12:12 AM
king shawn
Jun 7 2013, 11:47 PM
Paul George
Jun 7 2013, 05:47 PM
Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships?




people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
The Jordan/LeBron comparison is not the same thing and even the people that make it about championships are just grasping at straws because they have little actual knowledge. Kobe has 5 rings and how much closer did those rings get him to Jordan? Shaq has 4 rings and no one even puts him in the same sentence as Hakeem, who only won two and they were when Jordan was gone. No offense to Duncan, but if you replace him with any of those guys I mentioned, the Spurs still win those titles. That's no fault of his, but don't act like Duncan's sheer greatness is the sole reason for the Spurs winning those titles.

And seriously, not going to address the real points of my post? Malone averaged 25-10 on 52% shooting in the regular season and playoffs over 18 seasons and he didn't have good complementary players like Ginobili, Parker, and Robinson to take the load off. It was him and Stockton and a collection of solid players. Barkley averaged 23-12 on 54% shooting as a 6'6 4 with less than stellar team mates most of his career as well. Nevermind that both of these guys played in Jordan's prime. Garnett was never on a team that had a prayer of competing for a championship and he still put up equal numbers while in Minnesota. The best player he played with in Minnesota was sadly probably Wall Sczcerbiak. As soon as he went to a legitimate title contender, he won a title. To act like Duncan would have gotten to the Conf Semis and beyond is even a stretch there.

I get that Duncan is your boy and I am not saying he doesn't belong with those guys, but let's not forget how good some of these guys were. Duncan might have a better legacy because of his titles but in terms of being the best 4 of all-time, I am not sure I agree.
dude you cannot be the best of all time with 0 titles, doesnt work like that. best player = superstar who leads team to championships,


and pretty sure Kobe ranks top 5 players of all time in anyone's list, up to par with Jordan, and lol @ Hakeem being better than Shaq. Shaq was a freak of nature, something no one has ever seen, got twice as many championships as Hakeem, which he got during Jordans retirement, and had was the reason Hack a _____, was invented.


so in other words, you cannot be a considered '' the best '' in your position, much less overal if you never actually won anything. Many great players have put up great stats, but few have created dynasty's.





Watch the 95 finals and tell me again that Shaq was better than Hakeem. In fact, watch Hakeem vs any big man from his time. That's getting OT but this just proves that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure why someone brought up college. Shaq had a good 60-70 lbs and 2 inches on just about everyone he played in college with at least equal athleticism as well. Shaq was asked who the best center of all-time was...he said Hakeem. Everyone that played against him agrees. (So obviously Wilt is not going to come up here..) And Shaq won 3 titles with Kobe (as you said, a top 5 player all-time) and DWade (another phenomenal player) so let's not get too excited about Hakeem only winning when Jordan retired. Last I checked, the Spurs first title came after a Jordan retirement as well and their second followed the Laker breakup.

And I'm not surprised. I post stats and the only "evidence" is polls from anyone with a news outlet for their opinion or the championships argument. Completely ignore half of my last post (the people around Duncan. Are we punishing people like Malone, KG, and Barkley for not lucking into great talent like Parker, Ginobili, and Robinson. +20 if anyone can name a player that has played with any of the guys I mentioned that was as good as any of those 3) and the fact that I'm not comparing their legacies, I am comparing them as players on a nightly basis. People must really have forgotten how pitiful those T-Wolves teams were

Not to mention the much higher quality of big men during the late 80's and 90's. Who has Duncan had to deal with since 2000? Shaq until 04 and then....? Where is the Ewing/Hakeem/Admiral/Shaq/Kareem holding down the paint in an era where there was no defensive 3 so it was easier to protect the rim and the game was called much more physical? Will Chris Bosh go down in history as being better than Malone because he won a title? Is Robinson equal to Hakeem because they each won two titles? (Most of this forum probably knows nothing about the NBA during that time besides Jordan so that might be an unfair question)

We're going to have to agree to disagree I suppose. I don't even normally care for position comparisons because how do you decide the difference between a 2 and 3, 3 and a 4, 4 and 5, etc. Where does LeBron get slotted? Some people already slot him as a 4 and surely you would never compare Duncan and James's games. Where do you slot Duncan when he really moved to center after Robinson left anyway? Where will Melo go? Since coming to Boston, KG has played the 5. How do you compare a point guard like Westbrook to a point guard like Stockton? And the point isn't that Westbrook will never come up in the conversation as an all-time top pointguard.

You can definitely make a case for Duncan. But if you can set things on an equal playing field, I don't believe he is the hands down best 4 of all time.


I realize that most people won't read this whole thing and if they do, they will ignore parts of it and post the same stuff. Don't care
Edited by Paul George, Jun 8 2013, 02:13 AM.
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nix
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i read it all. valid points imo
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nix
Jun 8 2013, 02:51 AM
i read it all. valid points imo
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king shawn
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Paul George
Jun 8 2013, 01:58 AM
king shawn
Jun 8 2013, 01:02 AM
Paul George
Jun 8 2013, 12:12 AM
king shawn
Jun 7 2013, 11:47 PM
Paul George
Jun 7 2013, 05:47 PM
Erosion
Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center.

Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships?




people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
The Jordan/LeBron comparison is not the same thing and even the people that make it about championships are just grasping at straws because they have little actual knowledge. Kobe has 5 rings and how much closer did those rings get him to Jordan? Shaq has 4 rings and no one even puts him in the same sentence as Hakeem, who only won two and they were when Jordan was gone. No offense to Duncan, but if you replace him with any of those guys I mentioned, the Spurs still win those titles. That's no fault of his, but don't act like Duncan's sheer greatness is the sole reason for the Spurs winning those titles.

And seriously, not going to address the real points of my post? Malone averaged 25-10 on 52% shooting in the regular season and playoffs over 18 seasons and he didn't have good complementary players like Ginobili, Parker, and Robinson to take the load off. It was him and Stockton and a collection of solid players. Barkley averaged 23-12 on 54% shooting as a 6'6 4 with less than stellar team mates most of his career as well. Nevermind that both of these guys played in Jordan's prime. Garnett was never on a team that had a prayer of competing for a championship and he still put up equal numbers while in Minnesota. The best player he played with in Minnesota was sadly probably Wall Sczcerbiak. As soon as he went to a legitimate title contender, he won a title. To act like Duncan would have gotten to the Conf Semis and beyond is even a stretch there.

I get that Duncan is your boy and I am not saying he doesn't belong with those guys, but let's not forget how good some of these guys were. Duncan might have a better legacy because of his titles but in terms of being the best 4 of all-time, I am not sure I agree.
dude you cannot be the best of all time with 0 titles, doesnt work like that. best player = superstar who leads team to championships,


and pretty sure Kobe ranks top 5 players of all time in anyone's list, up to par with Jordan, and lol @ Hakeem being better than Shaq. Shaq was a freak of nature, something no one has ever seen, got twice as many championships as Hakeem, which he got during Jordans retirement, and had was the reason Hack a _____, was invented.


so in other words, you cannot be a considered '' the best '' in your position, much less overal if you never actually won anything. Many great players have put up great stats, but few have created dynasty's.





Watch the 95 finals and tell me again that Shaq was better than Hakeem. In fact, watch Hakeem vs any big man from his time. That's getting OT but this just proves that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure why someone brought up college. Shaq had a good 60-70 lbs and 2 inches on just about everyone he played in college with at least equal athleticism as well. Shaq was asked who the best center of all-time was...he said Hakeem. Everyone that played against him agrees. (So obviously Wilt is not going to come up here..) And Shaq won 3 titles with Kobe (as you said, a top 5 player all-time) and DWade (another phenomenal player) so let's not get too excited about Hakeem only winning when Jordan retired. Last I checked, the Spurs first title came after a Jordan retirement as well and their second followed the Laker breakup.

And I'm not surprised. I post stats and the only "evidence" is polls from anyone with a news outlet for their opinion or the championships argument. Completely ignore half of my last post (the people around Duncan. Are we punishing people like Malone, KG, and Barkley for not lucking into great talent like Parker, Ginobili, and Robinson. +20 if anyone can name a player that has played with any of the guys I mentioned that was as good as any of those 3) and the fact that I'm not comparing their legacies, I am comparing them as players on a nightly basis. People must really have forgotten how pitiful those T-Wolves teams were

Not to mention the much higher quality of big men during the late 80's and 90's. Who has Duncan had to deal with since 2000? Shaq until 04 and then....? Where is the Ewing/Hakeem/Admiral/Shaq/Kareem holding down the paint in an era where there was no defensive 3 so it was easier to protect the rim and the game was called much more physical? Will Chris Bosh go down in history as being better than Malone because he won a title? Is Robinson equal to Hakeem because they each won two titles? (Most of this forum probably knows nothing about the NBA during that time besides Jordan so that might be an unfair question)

We're going to have to agree to disagree I suppose. I don't even normally care for position comparisons because how do you decide the difference between a 2 and 3, 3 and a 4, 4 and 5, etc. Where does LeBron get slotted? Some people already slot him as a 4 and surely you would never compare Duncan and James's games. Where do you slot Duncan when he really moved to center after Robinson left anyway? Where will Melo go? Since coming to Boston, KG has played the 5. How do you compare a point guard like Westbrook to a point guard like Stockton? And the point isn't that Westbrook will never come up in the conversation as an all-time top pointguard.

You can definitely make a case for Duncan. But if you can set things on an equal playing field, I don't believe he is the hands down best 4 of all time.


I realize that most people won't read this whole thing and if they do, they will ignore parts of it and post the same stuff. Don't care
ok first stop, dont compare a mid-prime Hakeem to a very young 22 year old ONeal, who didnt even have much experiance due to his college years. And by using your argument, I can also say that O'neal had no one on his team when he carried his team to the finals, while Hakeem had a HOF'er Drexler feeding him the ball. And it doesnt really matter if Shaq himself, or someone admits that Hakeem is better, is still does not change the fact that Shaq's accomplishments > Hakeem's


Also, kobe wasnt even at his prime during those years during the Lakers three-peat. Pretty sure it's well known that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick during the reign. He was what, 21-22 years old?







and stop playing the duncan-had-better-teamates argument. People like Dirk, Malone, KG ( when he went to Boston and actually did something relevant) all had good help, only one that didnt was Barkley, who still had good enough help to win a ring after being traded to the rockets in his thirties. Duncan, and the other big 2, unlike the rest, were drafted and have stayed there the entire careers to win a championship & build a dynasty, not buy it ( heat) . It's not like they were traded like KG, Lebron, to win .


and stop using the '' if _____ player has the same amount of rings of _____, are they the same? " were talking about superstars, not sidekicks/benchwarmers
Edited by king shawn, Jun 8 2013, 04:18 AM.
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Remedy
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you clearly don't remember how flawed those Rockets teams were.

nowhere close to being good enough to win a ring.
BaMbOo
May 5 2011, 12:35 PM
idk has the best forum trolls

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nix
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drugs man. am i right?
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People lets be real. Robert Horry is the best PF of all time...hands down. He carried Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan all to the NBA finals. Rings don't like baby.
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connybear

i guess king shawn didn't get the memo that charles barkley is ringless...l0l

what sets duncan apart for me in the PF conversation is his defense. Malone was half of the deadliest pick and roll combo of the era, yet he never averaged more than a block a game. barkley only averaged .8 blocks a game for his career as well. in that respect i hold him in higher regard than guys like malone and barkley. On an individual level, I think KG was a better PF.
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Jeff Green
Jun 8 2013, 09:36 AM
People lets be real. Robert Horry is the best PF of all time...hands down. He carried Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan all to the NBA finals. Rings don't like baby.
The Pistons would have beat the Spurs in the finals if it wasn't for Robert Horry. That was the only playoff game I ever went to. The look on every fan"s face when he made that 3 is stuck in my head.

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