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NBA Playoffs 2013; Predictions
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Topic Started: Apr 19 2013, 05:56 PM (13,531 Views)
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Paul George
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Jun 8 2013, 03:27 PM
Post #401
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- king shawn
- Jun 8 2013, 04:16 AM
- Paul George
- Jun 8 2013, 01:58 AM
- king shawn
- Jun 8 2013, 01:02 AM
- Paul George
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- king shawn
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- Paul George
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- Erosion
- Jun 7 2013, 05:21 PM
I mean who do you put ahead of him? Malone? Barkley? Garnett? Idk about that
It's also tough because he's really been a center ever since Robinson retired. Most top center conversations have included him the last few years (partially because of a severe lack of top quality big men) You can't really compare him to a guy like Barkley because their games were so different. Was he one of the best? Yes, but it's not fair to say he was for sure a better 4 than someone like Barkley, Malone, McHale, KG, etc. especially when he has been aided by the rise of the stretch 4 and the death of the back to the basket center. Once again, not taking anything away, but keep everything in perspective here.
but who was 5 championships? people say lebron will never reach jordans status until he gets near the same amount of championships, yet you are comparing people like Barkley & Malone who never won anything, and KG who only has 1.
The Jordan/LeBron comparison is not the same thing and even the people that make it about championships are just grasping at straws because they have little actual knowledge. Kobe has 5 rings and how much closer did those rings get him to Jordan? Shaq has 4 rings and no one even puts him in the same sentence as Hakeem, who only won two and they were when Jordan was gone. No offense to Duncan, but if you replace him with any of those guys I mentioned, the Spurs still win those titles. That's no fault of his, but don't act like Duncan's sheer greatness is the sole reason for the Spurs winning those titles. And seriously, not going to address the real points of my post? Malone averaged 25-10 on 52% shooting in the regular season and playoffs over 18 seasons and he didn't have good complementary players like Ginobili, Parker, and Robinson to take the load off. It was him and Stockton and a collection of solid players. Barkley averaged 23-12 on 54% shooting as a 6'6 4 with less than stellar team mates most of his career as well. Nevermind that both of these guys played in Jordan's prime. Garnett was never on a team that had a prayer of competing for a championship and he still put up equal numbers while in Minnesota. The best player he played with in Minnesota was sadly probably Wall Sczcerbiak. As soon as he went to a legitimate title contender, he won a title. To act like Duncan would have gotten to the Conf Semis and beyond is even a stretch there. I get that Duncan is your boy and I am not saying he doesn't belong with those guys, but let's not forget how good some of these guys were. Duncan might have a better legacy because of his titles but in terms of being the best 4 of all-time, I am not sure I agree.
dude you cannot be the best of all time with 0 titles, doesnt work like that. best player = superstar who leads team to championships, and pretty sure Kobe ranks top 5 players of all time in anyone's list, up to par with Jordan, and lol @ Hakeem being better than Shaq. Shaq was a freak of nature, something no one has ever seen, got twice as many championships as Hakeem, which he got during Jordans retirement, and had was the reason Hack a _____, was invented. so in other words, you cannot be a considered '' the best '' in your position, much less overal if you never actually won anything. Many great players have put up great stats, but few have created dynasty's.
Watch the 95 finals and tell me again that Shaq was better than Hakeem. In fact, watch Hakeem vs any big man from his time. That's getting OT but this just proves that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure why someone brought up college. Shaq had a good 60-70 lbs and 2 inches on just about everyone he played in college with at least equal athleticism as well. Shaq was asked who the best center of all-time was...he said Hakeem. Everyone that played against him agrees. (So obviously Wilt is not going to come up here..) And Shaq won 3 titles with Kobe (as you said, a top 5 player all-time) and DWade (another phenomenal player) so let's not get too excited about Hakeem only winning when Jordan retired. Last I checked, the Spurs first title came after a Jordan retirement as well and their second followed the Laker breakup. And I'm not surprised. I post stats and the only "evidence" is polls from anyone with a news outlet for their opinion or the championships argument. Completely ignore half of my last post (the people around Duncan. Are we punishing people like Malone, KG, and Barkley for not lucking into great talent like Parker, Ginobili, and Robinson. +20 if anyone can name a player that has played with any of the guys I mentioned that was as good as any of those 3) and the fact that I'm not comparing their legacies, I am comparing them as players on a nightly basis. People must really have forgotten how pitiful those T-Wolves teams were Not to mention the much higher quality of big men during the late 80's and 90's. Who has Duncan had to deal with since 2000? Shaq until 04 and then....? Where is the Ewing/Hakeem/Admiral/Shaq/Kareem holding down the paint in an era where there was no defensive 3 so it was easier to protect the rim and the game was called much more physical? Will Chris Bosh go down in history as being better than Malone because he won a title? Is Robinson equal to Hakeem because they each won two titles? (Most of this forum probably knows nothing about the NBA during that time besides Jordan so that might be an unfair question) We're going to have to agree to disagree I suppose. I don't even normally care for position comparisons because how do you decide the difference between a 2 and 3, 3 and a 4, 4 and 5, etc. Where does LeBron get slotted? Some people already slot him as a 4 and surely you would never compare Duncan and James's games. Where do you slot Duncan when he really moved to center after Robinson left anyway? Where will Melo go? Since coming to Boston, KG has played the 5. How do you compare a point guard like Westbrook to a point guard like Stockton? And the point isn't that Westbrook will never come up in the conversation as an all-time top pointguard. You can definitely make a case for Duncan. But if you can set things on an equal playing field, I don't believe he is the hands down best 4 of all time. I realize that most people won't read this whole thing and if they do, they will ignore parts of it and post the same stuff. Don't care
ok first stop, dont compare a mid-prime Hakeem to a very young 22 year old ONeal, who didnt even have much experiance due to his college years. And by using your argument, I can also say that O'neal had no one on his team when he carried his team to the finals, while Hakeem had a HOF'er Drexler feeding him the ball. And it doesnt really matter if Shaq himself, or someone admits that Hakeem is better, is still does not change the fact that Shaq's accomplishments > Hakeem's Also, kobe wasnt even at his prime during those years during the Lakers three-peat. Pretty sure it's well known that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick during the reign. He was what, 21-22 years old? and stop playing the duncan-had-better-teamates argument. People like Dirk, Malone, KG ( when he went to Boston and actually did something relevant) all had good help, only one that didnt was Barkley, who still had good enough help to win a ring after being traded to the rockets in his thirties. Duncan, and the other big 2, unlike the rest, were drafted and have stayed there the entire careers to win a championship & build a dynasty, not buy it ( heat) . It's not like they were traded like KG, Lebron, to win . and stop using the '' if _____ player has the same amount of rings of _____, are they the same? " were talking about superstars, not sidekicks/benchwarmers Have you never heard of Penny Hardaway? One of the two reasons that Shaq left Orlando was 1) ORL lowballed him on their first offer and 2) Penny got hurt the year after they lost to the Rockets. And anyways, I guess it's irrelevant that most of the great centers to play the game all say that Hakeem was the best of all-time, including Shaq himself. As far as Drexler goes, Hakeem won Ring #1 with no Drexler because Drexler got traded from the Blazers to the Rockets at the trade deadline during that 2nd championship run. If you take out the last few years of each of their careers (Hakeem as a Raptor lol and Shaq after Miami), they still have almost identical numbers even though one of them spent most of their career in an era with no good centers. I also can't pin a guy who shot 50% from the foul line as the best of all-time if we're saying that these guys were even. I'm going to lay this one to rest and just say watch some Olajuwon footage vs guys like Ewing, Robinson (not just the semifinal game where Hakeem torched him, that's not fair lol), Shaq, etc and do a little bit of research.
As far as Kobe and Shaq...

I disagree that it is well-known that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick during that reign. Look at Kobe's numbers/trajectory starting with the year they won the first title. You can make a case for either one being the "side kick". Shaq wouldnt have been so dominant if he didn't have Kobe helping set him up/spreading the floor and Kobe wouldn't have been so great if he didn't have Shaq in the paint. Lakers also probably don't win that first title if Kobe doesn't carry them on a sprained ankle when Shaq was fouling out of games vs the Pacers in 2000. It's not like Kobe took a long time to get to a superstar level. Yeah his peak was after 05-06 probably but that was also a product of him playing with guys like Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. Look at the career trajectories of those high school guys like Kobe, KG, T-Mac, etc. By their 4th year, they were all legitimate superstars.
As far as Duncan with better team mates, you missed my point. Yeah KG won a ring when he went to Boston and actually had good players around him. In their 3 year window, they went to 2 Finals and won 1 title. My point was that KG had never been on a team even close to that in his first 12 years so when he finally got a decent squad around him, he won. As for Barkley, he had 1 real chance to win a title with the Rockets. They went to the West Finals and lost to the Jazz, who obviously lost to the Jordan Bulls. It's kind of disturbing that you're dismissing guys for not winning rings when Jordan was dominating the league. There were a lot of great teams and players that did not win titles in their primes because of Jordan. The year Barkley went to the Finals with the Suns, he won the MVP award and averaged 27-13-6 in the postseason.
Not even going to go in depth on the last part. The only guys that don't belong there are Westbrook and Bosh. Nice job not addressing the meat of that point i.e. LeBron, KG, Duncan, Robinson, Melo, and comparing current point guards like Westbrook to traditional point guards like Nash, Stockton, etc.
Just so we're clear, I'm not trying to belittle you by saying "do some research". If it comes off that way, I apologize.
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HPT-60053
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Jun 8 2013, 10:05 PM
Post #402
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http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhDxvJcugO7QPxSPJ8
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Paul George
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Jun 9 2013, 09:14 PM
Post #403
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25-2 run bridging the 3rd and 4th.
rip spurs
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Osama Bin Laggin
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Jun 9 2013, 09:15 PM
Post #404
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lol miami at their highest level is prtty damn unstoppable
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G R E N A D E
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Jun 9 2013, 09:19 PM
Post #405
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G R E N A D E
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C h a l m e r s
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 his soul will get beamed up to the mothership like wingguardiam leviosa -Havock 2014
Steam: gfgrenade Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/GrenadeHPC Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/GRENADEgg
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Trapt
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Jun 9 2013, 09:22 PM
Post #406
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Trapt
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block of the year?
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Skyson
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Jun 9 2013, 09:24 PM
Post #407
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Gee, Lebron is good in garbage time.
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Battle.net: Alvks#1168 https://youtu.be/X10JikIuSTE
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Paul George
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Jun 10 2013, 06:39 PM
Post #408
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I found trapt.
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Trapt
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Jun 10 2013, 06:49 PM
Post #409
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Trapt
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i spotted you too
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Paul George
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Jun 10 2013, 06:54 PM
Post #410
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- Jeff Green
- Jun 10 2013, 06:49 PM
i spotted you too  touche
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BaMbOo
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Jun 10 2013, 09:05 PM
Post #411
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- Paul George
- May 28 2013, 06:54 PM
- king shawn
- May 28 2013, 06:47 PM
- Erosion
- May 28 2013, 03:28 PM
I don't understand how you switch from rooting for the heat to rooting for the spurs when you have a dallas cowboys helmet as your logo
very conflicting
like I said, I was only rooting for the heat during 2011 finals becuase I am not a Maveracks fan, sort of like a cross-state rivalry just like I hate the Texans.
OT: It's funny living in Houston and listening to Houston sports radio hosts talk about how this is the Texans' year in terms of winning the Super Bowl. They were barely the best team in their division last year and no better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference. I'm not even sure they win the division this year unless Indy regresses. The Cowboys on the other hand. The season will start for 30 teams in the beginning of September. The offseason will restart in the beginning of September for the Cowboys and of course...the Jets. Still no logical reason to be rooting for the Heat. I hate the Knicks but I would be rooting for them vs the Heat if they beat the Pacers, just like I would root for the Bulls when they played the Heat in year 1 after pasting the Pacers. i know some cubs fans who would cheer for any team playing the white sox so interstate rivalries aren't exactly uncommon.
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zerk
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Jun 10 2013, 09:13 PM
Post #412
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- BaMbOo
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- Paul George
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I don't understand how you switch from rooting for the heat to rooting for the spurs when you have a dallas cowboys helmet as your logo
very conflicting
like I said, I was only rooting for the heat during 2011 finals becuase I am not a Maveracks fan, sort of like a cross-state rivalry just like I hate the Texans.
OT: It's funny living in Houston and listening to Houston sports radio hosts talk about how this is the Texans' year in terms of winning the Super Bowl. They were barely the best team in their division last year and no better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference. I'm not even sure they win the division this year unless Indy regresses. The Cowboys on the other hand. The season will start for 30 teams in the beginning of September. The offseason will restart in the beginning of September for the Cowboys and of course...the Jets. Still no logical reason to be rooting for the Heat. I hate the Knicks but I would be rooting for them vs the Heat if they beat the Pacers, just like I would root for the Bulls when they played the Heat in year 1 after pasting the Pacers.
i know some cubs fans who would cheer for any team playing the white sox so interstate rivalries aren't exactly uncommon. pittsburgh vs phili is arguably the largest innerstate rivalry
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Paul George
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Jun 10 2013, 09:26 PM
Post #413
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Did we just compare the Mavs-Spurs rivalry to the Cubs-WSox and Flyers/Pens?
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BaMbOo
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Jun 11 2013, 06:59 AM
Post #414
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Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.
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king shawn
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Jun 11 2013, 06:45 PM
Post #415
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- Paul George
- Jun 10 2013, 09:26 PM
Did we just compare the Mavs-Spurs rivalry to the Cubs-WSox and Flyers/Pens?  its funny why mavs-spurs isnt a big rivalry, after all, we actually win championships/go to finals
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Paul George
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Jun 11 2013, 06:56 PM
Post #416
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- BaMbOo
- Jun 11 2013, 06:59 AM
Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.

Someone needs to read again.
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Osama Bin Laggin
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Jun 11 2013, 10:28 PM
Post #417
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- Paul George
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Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.
 Someone needs to read again. no, i think u need to read agaiin.
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Osama Bin Laggin
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Jun 11 2013, 10:28 PM
Post #418
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- BaMbOo
- Jun 11 2013, 06:59 AM
Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.
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Paul George
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Jun 11 2013, 10:32 PM
Post #419
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- Osama Bin Laggin
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Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.
How about you quote the part where I told him that he can't root for whomever he wants? And btw, saying that there isn't a logical reason to cheer for a team is not saying that he can't root for them.
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Erosion
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Jun 11 2013, 10:43 PM
Post #420
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Negro Patrol "¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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good 15 points lebron
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king shawn
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Jun 11 2013, 11:36 PM
Post #421
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- Erosion
- Jun 11 2013, 10:43 PM
good 15 points lebron cant do anything when your playing the spurs dude
lol @ u people who actuall believed a team like the Heat would dominate the old spurs, shame on u
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BaMbOo
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Jun 12 2013, 01:06 PM
Post #422
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- Paul George
- Jun 11 2013, 10:32 PM
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Hey you're the guy trying to tell king Shawn who he should be rooting for. The guy has a right to be a fan of any team any time he wants.
How about you quote the part where I told him that he can't root for whomever he wants? And btw, saying that there isn't a logical reason to cheer for a team is not saying that he can't root for them.  It's not whether he can or can't... It's whether he should be or not. Aren't you telling him he shouldn't have been a fan of the heat in 2011?
Are you Sam?
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HPT-60053
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Jun 12 2013, 01:14 PM
Post #423
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- king shawn
- Jun 11 2013, 11:36 PM
- Erosion
- Jun 11 2013, 10:43 PM
good 15 points lebron
cant do anything when your playing the spurs dude lol @ u people who actuall believed a team like the Heat would dominate the old spurs, shame on u You had two people dropping 30 that aren't one of the old 3. That's not going to happen every game.
Lebron was also off yesterday. Shot horrible. Tony parker may not play game 4, so yea.
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connybear
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Jun 12 2013, 01:50 PM
Post #424
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- HPT-G0053
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good 15 points lebron
cant do anything when your playing the spurs dude lol @ u people who actuall believed a team like the Heat would dominate the old spurs, shame on u
You had two people dropping 30 that aren't one of the old 3. That's not going to happen every game. Lebron was also off yesterday. Shot horrible. Tony parker may not play game 4, so yea. you say lebron was "off" and shot horrible, yet he hasn't broken 20 points in the finals. he's not off...he's being smothered by the fantastic defense of leonard and green. did you see danny green's block yesterday? hot damn!
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HPT-20
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Jun 12 2013, 04:55 PM
Post #425
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- connybear
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good 15 points lebron
cant do anything when your playing the spurs dude lol @ u people who actuall believed a team like the Heat would dominate the old spurs, shame on u
You had two people dropping 30 that aren't one of the old 3. That's not going to happen every game. Lebron was also off yesterday. Shot horrible. Tony parker may not play game 4, so yea.
you say lebron was "off" and shot horrible, yet he hasn't broken 20 points in the finals. he's not off...he's being smothered by the fantastic defense of leonard and green. did you see danny green's block yesterday? hot damn! where r da lakes
oh.
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