I love listening to Houston sports radio. It might be the only place left that actually thinks Harden is a super star.
Harden vs PG: 84 mins 11-43 6-17 11-14 39 points
Against disciplined defenders, he's nothing special. His PER gets inflated by the FTA which makes his FG% even worse when you take into account that shooting fouls do not result in a missed FGA in the box score. Also, he plays zero defense so no bonus points there.
I'm not sure that the Rockets next year are better than a healthy Lakers from last season. Harden's best season still was not close to Kobe's average to below average season last year. The Rockets are getting the same banged up Howard who will have worked with the following big men since entering the league: Hakeem, Ewing, and Kareem. Yet, he still has the same holes in his game that he had when he was with the Magic.
Meh. I'm certainly not convinced but I am still very excited for Harden and Curry to make that push to being a superstar.
I don't see how you can say he's nothing special...he's probably the best foul drawing guard of all time right now based on FTR. On top of that literally everyone who has doubted him has said that he wouldn't draw fouls in the playoffs, yet somehow he increased his FTR compared to his RS.
On PER, it's funny you say that because PER penalizes him a bit because he doesn't take much raw FGA...which Kobe gets a boost from on PER because PER rewards volume shooters.
in response to him playing against Indiana, not really concerned. James was run ragged by last 4 months of the season battling random injuries, and I'd look to see a decent increase in FG% considering it was his first year with no training camp.
What? If you're banged up and blaming injuries in the middle of the regular season, what happens when you want to make a deep postseason run? Holy excuses batman. Your special max player breaks down in early March? I guess Dwight is a good fit in Houston then.
Also not sure you know how PER works, but I'm not going to argue a stat that is misleading in comparing players. Two ends of the floor, Harden plays one, the one that factors into PER.
I've watched Harden enough at ASU/OKC/HOU to know that he's good, but he's not a top 5-10 player and I don't see how a player can be special if he's not in that group.
What? I was telling you that he was banged up from playing on nagging injuries. That's not an excuse, it's what happened. It happens to a lot of players. You are extrapolating way to much from what I said.
Nice cop out about PER by the way. I don't see how you think I misunderstand the stat when all I said of importance to the stat was that it rewards volume shooters, which is absolutely true.
I'd be interested to see your top 10 along with your reasoning then, for me James was just outside the top 5.
If it's because of his defense, I'd love to hear your arguments about not having a guy who is elite as hell at the pick and roll, and according to RAPM, only a -0.1 on defense and +6 on offense..higher than Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Carmelo, Kobe, etc. The only people better than him on offense? Chris Paul and LeBron James. That's pretty damn elite company. Stars worse than him on defense? Kobe, Carmelo, Deron, Kyrie. You'll notice the worse on defense list consists of some second tier stars, but the difference is that they weren't such a positive impact on offense.
(Side note: The Rockets were already better than a healthy Lakers team last year without Dwight)
Everyone* plays with injuries. Honestly, it's the nagging ones that are more of a concern going forward anyways so my original point still stands. If you're getting worn down in February, "Houston, we have a problem"
Who is in your 6-10 if Harden just barely missed the top 5? And defensive stats are pretty worthless when most guys like Harden guard the weaker of the wings/guards to prevent foul trouble/fatigue. I'd venture to guess that Paul George does not have amazing "Defensive stats" because he guards guys like Melo, Durant, LBJ, etc. for the entire game while being a focus on offense. I'd love to see Harden lock up someone like Westbrook, Kobe, Wade, etc. for a whole game (holding them below their averages while still posting similar offensive numbers) but we haven't seen that...and we won't. Funny you mentioned Kobe and Melo, one has always guarded the opponent's best player until the last season or so due to injuries and the other plays out of position on the defensive end because of the Knicks style of play. Melo being forced to guard guys like Aldridge and David West is like Harden guarding Durant or Melo.
If I had to throw out a top 10, it would start with James, KD, CP3, Melo, Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, Dwight...just so we're clear we're using your assumption that injuries happen to everyone...and then you have a large batch of players like Harden, Kyrie, George, Tony Parker, Duncan (I can't comfortably put him in the top 10 when you have the imminent drop off coming), Wade, Curry, Aldridge etc. You can be a homer and put Harden at the front of that pack or be reasonable and not be surprised why he would be in the middle or towards the back.
After next season, you will have even more players in that batch. Guys like Wall, Drummond, Valanciunas, Lillard, Davis, and co. are going to be entering that tier. You have guys like Curry, George, and Kyrie that might enter that top tier. With the number of players of similar caliber to Harden, he's not anything special IMO.
Also, a moment of silence for the Detroit Pistons for the addition of Brandon Jennings...
Moment of silence? Jennings is not amazing but he's a lot better than Brandon Knight. The Pistons have done a fantastic job this off season. Josh Smith and Jennings just might be able to work well together. It is a new team and system.
I don't follow other teams, but what have your Pacers done?
LMAO Pistons are going to be a joke lol. Prepare to watch smith and jennings ball hog and chuck up useless three pointers. Pacers have actually done a good job imo of beefing up their bench. Add a returning granger to that group and the heat should be nervous.
Moment of silence? Jennings is not amazing but he's a lot better than Brandon Knight. The Pistons have done a fantastic job this off season. Josh Smith and Jennings just might be able to work well together. It is a new team and system.
I don't follow other teams, but what have your Pacers done?
-DJ Augustin, Gerald Green, Tyler Hansbrough + Luis Scola, Chris Copeland, CJ Watson, and THE CAPTAIN.
Also about Brandon Jennings, educate yourself since you probably haven't seen many Bucks games, like 99.99% of the world haha.
You posted saying "players get better or worse when they switch teams".
Figured since all logic was lost upon you prior to that post, I would try fighting fire with fire. Switching teams does not effect a player's basketball IQ. Switching teams does not make a player's FG% jump drastically like it would have to when it's as low as Jennings's is. Switching teams is not going to make Jennings able to use his right hand.
@aqua i agree with u but there is still a slight chance that jennings has taken the criticism and decided to change
eg, in to, look at how calderon started changing and the mip award is there for a reason
The problem is that a reined in Jennings is nothing more than an average point guard. At least Knight had some talent, decent stroke, and the ability to play either position. Jennings can't shoot and he can't really break you down consistently to create for others when you look past some of the flashy moves or the thought that creating space for 20 foot fadeaways is "creating a shot". And he's simply too small to really play defense adequately.
I love listening to Houston sports radio. It might be the only place left that actually thinks Harden is a super star.
Harden vs PG: 84 mins 11-43 6-17 11-14 39 points
Against disciplined defenders, he's nothing special. His PER gets inflated by the FTA which makes his FG% even worse when you take into account that shooting fouls do not result in a missed FGA in the box score. Also, he plays zero defense so no bonus points there.
I'm not sure that the Rockets next year are better than a healthy Lakers from last season. Harden's best season still was not close to Kobe's average to below average season last year. The Rockets are getting the same banged up Howard who will have worked with the following big men since entering the league: Hakeem, Ewing, and Kareem. Yet, he still has the same holes in his game that he had when he was with the Magic.
Meh. I'm certainly not convinced but I am still very excited for Harden and Curry to make that push to being a superstar.
I don't see how you can say he's nothing special...he's probably the best foul drawing guard of all time right now based on FTR. On top of that literally everyone who has doubted him has said that he wouldn't draw fouls in the playoffs, yet somehow he increased his FTR compared to his RS.
On PER, it's funny you say that because PER penalizes him a bit because he doesn't take much raw FGA...which Kobe gets a boost from on PER because PER rewards volume shooters.
in response to him playing against Indiana, not really concerned. James was run ragged by last 4 months of the season battling random injuries, and I'd look to see a decent increase in FG% considering it was his first year with no training camp.
What? If you're banged up and blaming injuries in the middle of the regular season, what happens when you want to make a deep postseason run? Holy excuses batman. Your special max player breaks down in early March? I guess Dwight is a good fit in Houston then.
Also not sure you know how PER works, but I'm not going to argue a stat that is misleading in comparing players. Two ends of the floor, Harden plays one, the one that factors into PER.
I've watched Harden enough at ASU/OKC/HOU to know that he's good, but he's not a top 5-10 player and I don't see how a player can be special if he's not in that group.
What? I was telling you that he was banged up from playing on nagging injuries. That's not an excuse, it's what happened. It happens to a lot of players. You are extrapolating way to much from what I said.
Nice cop out about PER by the way. I don't see how you think I misunderstand the stat when all I said of importance to the stat was that it rewards volume shooters, which is absolutely true.
I'd be interested to see your top 10 along with your reasoning then, for me James was just outside the top 5.
If it's because of his defense, I'd love to hear your arguments about not having a guy who is elite as hell at the pick and roll, and according to RAPM, only a -0.1 on defense and +6 on offense..higher than Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Carmelo, Kobe, etc. The only people better than him on offense? Chris Paul and LeBron James. That's pretty damn elite company. Stars worse than him on defense? Kobe, Carmelo, Deron, Kyrie. You'll notice the worse on defense list consists of some second tier stars, but the difference is that they weren't such a positive impact on offense.
(Side note: The Rockets were already better than a healthy Lakers team last year without Dwight)
Everyone* plays with injuries. Honestly, it's the nagging ones that are more of a concern going forward anyways so my original point still stands. If you're getting worn down in February, "Houston, we have a problem"
Who is in your 6-10 if Harden just barely missed the top 5? And defensive stats are pretty worthless when most guys like Harden guard the weaker of the wings/guards to prevent foul trouble/fatigue. I'd venture to guess that Paul George does not have amazing "Defensive stats" because he guards guys like Melo, Durant, LBJ, etc. for the entire game while being a focus on offense. I'd love to see Harden lock up someone like Westbrook, Kobe, Wade, etc. for a whole game (holding them below their averages while still posting similar offensive numbers) but we haven't seen that...and we won't. Funny you mentioned Kobe and Melo, one has always guarded the opponent's best player until the last season or so due to injuries and the other plays out of position on the defensive end because of the Knicks style of play. Melo being forced to guard guys like Aldridge and David West is like Harden guarding Durant or Melo.
If I had to throw out a top 10, it would start with James, KD, CP3, Melo, Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, Dwight...just so we're clear we're using your assumption that injuries happen to everyone...and then you have a large batch of players like Harden, Kyrie, George, Tony Parker, Duncan (I can't comfortably put him in the top 10 when you have the imminent drop off coming), Wade, Curry, Aldridge etc. You can be a homer and put Harden at the front of that pack or be reasonable and not be surprised why he would be in the middle or towards the back.
After next season, you will have even more players in that batch. Guys like Wall, Drummond, Valanciunas, Lillard, Davis, and co. are going to be entering that tier. You have guys like Curry, George, and Kyrie that might enter that top tier. With the number of players of similar caliber to Harden, he's not anything special IMO.
Also, a moment of silence for the Detroit Pistons for the addition of Brandon Jennings...
It wasn't so much that he was worn down (well it was), the bigger problem was that he didn't rest to get healthy, and that effected him a bit.
1. LeBron 2. Durant (I flip flop here between the two, but Durant clearly had the better season between him and Paul) 3. Paul After this it gets a little muggier. There isn't a whole lot of separation after this, so you could almost have them in any order. 4. Wade (probably be willing to drop him a few slots for that awful playoff run but his impact on Miami's RS is unquestionable) 5. Tony Parker 6. Curry (his last 35 games (inc playoffs) were incredible) 7. Harden 8. Kobe 9. Westbrook 10. Carmelo
After that you have players like Duncan, KG, Marc Gasol, injured Howard, and a few other players hanging out.
in regards to PG, he does though. He sports a ridiculously impressive 3.8 on defense in vanilla RAPM, and 3.1 in xRAPM.
Top 9 in the nba (not putting drose since idk how he plays now)
Kobe Lebron Durant chris paul russel westbrook Melo tonyparker stephen curry dwight howard
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I love listening to Houston sports radio. It might be the only place left that actually thinks Harden is a super star.
Harden vs PG: 84 mins 11-43 6-17 11-14 39 points
Against disciplined defenders, he's nothing special. His PER gets inflated by the FTA which makes his FG% even worse when you take into account that shooting fouls do not result in a missed FGA in the box score. Also, he plays zero defense so no bonus points there.
I'm not sure that the Rockets next year are better than a healthy Lakers from last season. Harden's best season still was not close to Kobe's average to below average season last year. The Rockets are getting the same banged up Howard who will have worked with the following big men since entering the league: Hakeem, Ewing, and Kareem. Yet, he still has the same holes in his game that he had when he was with the Magic.
Meh. I'm certainly not convinced but I am still very excited for Harden and Curry to make that push to being a superstar.
I don't see how you can say he's nothing special...he's probably the best foul drawing guard of all time right now based on FTR. On top of that literally everyone who has doubted him has said that he wouldn't draw fouls in the playoffs, yet somehow he increased his FTR compared to his RS.
On PER, it's funny you say that because PER penalizes him a bit because he doesn't take much raw FGA...which Kobe gets a boost from on PER because PER rewards volume shooters.
in response to him playing against Indiana, not really concerned. James was run ragged by last 4 months of the season battling random injuries, and I'd look to see a decent increase in FG% considering it was his first year with no training camp.
What? If you're banged up and blaming injuries in the middle of the regular season, what happens when you want to make a deep postseason run? Holy excuses batman. Your special max player breaks down in early March? I guess Dwight is a good fit in Houston then.
Also not sure you know how PER works, but I'm not going to argue a stat that is misleading in comparing players. Two ends of the floor, Harden plays one, the one that factors into PER.
I've watched Harden enough at ASU/OKC/HOU to know that he's good, but he's not a top 5-10 player and I don't see how a player can be special if he's not in that group.
What? I was telling you that he was banged up from playing on nagging injuries. That's not an excuse, it's what happened. It happens to a lot of players. You are extrapolating way to much from what I said.
Nice cop out about PER by the way. I don't see how you think I misunderstand the stat when all I said of importance to the stat was that it rewards volume shooters, which is absolutely true.
I'd be interested to see your top 10 along with your reasoning then, for me James was just outside the top 5.
If it's because of his defense, I'd love to hear your arguments about not having a guy who is elite as hell at the pick and roll, and according to RAPM, only a -0.1 on defense and +6 on offense..higher than Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Carmelo, Kobe, etc. The only people better than him on offense? Chris Paul and LeBron James. That's pretty damn elite company. Stars worse than him on defense? Kobe, Carmelo, Deron, Kyrie. You'll notice the worse on defense list consists of some second tier stars, but the difference is that they weren't such a positive impact on offense.
(Side note: The Rockets were already better than a healthy Lakers team last year without Dwight)
Everyone* plays with injuries. Honestly, it's the nagging ones that are more of a concern going forward anyways so my original point still stands. If you're getting worn down in February, "Houston, we have a problem"
Who is in your 6-10 if Harden just barely missed the top 5? And defensive stats are pretty worthless when most guys like Harden guard the weaker of the wings/guards to prevent foul trouble/fatigue. I'd venture to guess that Paul George does not have amazing "Defensive stats" because he guards guys like Melo, Durant, LBJ, etc. for the entire game while being a focus on offense. I'd love to see Harden lock up someone like Westbrook, Kobe, Wade, etc. for a whole game (holding them below their averages while still posting similar offensive numbers) but we haven't seen that...and we won't. Funny you mentioned Kobe and Melo, one has always guarded the opponent's best player until the last season or so due to injuries and the other plays out of position on the defensive end because of the Knicks style of play. Melo being forced to guard guys like Aldridge and David West is like Harden guarding Durant or Melo.
If I had to throw out a top 10, it would start with James, KD, CP3, Melo, Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, Dwight...just so we're clear we're using your assumption that injuries happen to everyone...and then you have a large batch of players like Harden, Kyrie, George, Tony Parker, Duncan (I can't comfortably put him in the top 10 when you have the imminent drop off coming), Wade, Curry, Aldridge etc. You can be a homer and put Harden at the front of that pack or be reasonable and not be surprised why he would be in the middle or towards the back.
After next season, you will have even more players in that batch. Guys like Wall, Drummond, Valanciunas, Lillard, Davis, and co. are going to be entering that tier. You have guys like Curry, George, and Kyrie that might enter that top tier. With the number of players of similar caliber to Harden, he's not anything special IMO.
Also, a moment of silence for the Detroit Pistons for the addition of Brandon Jennings...
It wasn't so much that he was worn down (well it was), the bigger problem was that he didn't rest to get healthy, and that effected him a bit.
1. LeBron 2. Durant (I flip flop here between the two, but Durant clearly had the better season between him and Paul) 3. Paul After this it gets a little muggier. There isn't a whole lot of separation after this, so you could almost have them in any order. 4. Wade (probably be willing to drop him a few slots for that awful playoff run but his impact on Miami's RS is unquestionable) 5. Tony Parker 6. Curry (his last 35 games (inc playoffs) were incredible) 7. Harden 8. Kobe 9. Westbrook 10. Carmelo
After that you have players like Duncan, KG, Marc Gasol, injured Howard, and a few other players hanging out.
in regards to PG, he does though. He sports a ridiculously impressive 3.8 on defense in vanilla RAPM, and 3.1 in xRAPM.
your top 10 is quite similar to mine besides 1-2 players.
Why is erosion and grenade saying '' that list '' ?
I know I don't watch basketball as much as I do other sports but I don't get whats so wrong with my list and remedy basically has the same top 10 as I do.
dude jennings is horrible believe me, all hes going to do is bring your team down
aqua or remedy can you tell me about brandon knight? i havent watched any of him
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Well he's okay at the three as long as he takes it above the break or on the right corner, otherwise dude sucks at putting the ball in the hole. He has a horrible A/TO ratio (1.48) and he isn't a very skilled passer. He has defensive potential but right now he's simply a net neutral on that end while being a net negative on the other side of the ball. Unless he sees a significant jump this year then it's best his coaches mold him into a role player. He's certainly not fit to run the 1 as is.
I'd certainly want him more than Jennings because of his high character and he has potential at being a good role player for a team that has a ball dominant guard so that all he has to do is guard both 1 and 2 and shoot threes.