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| Sabbath; Help!! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2007, 07:46 PM (1,370 Views) | |
| Mickyd | Jan 23 2007, 07:46 PM Post #1 |
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I have a friend that I've been trying to talk to about some of the scriptural truths we've been shown. He's very stubborn and won't read anything on this site. He firmly believes we should keep the Law of Moses...and especially the Sabbath. Here is a rundown of the exchange that we've had over the past few days....the "quotes" are his remarks...followed by my response. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
"The "Law of Moses" WAS the "Law of sin and death".....we are NOT under the Law...but under "Grace" (Rom 6:14). Now....that word "Grace" is not an inactive noun...but a very active verb that chastens us to live Godly lives in this present age. (Titus 2:11-12) I can testify to this personally. But...I can see where there are those who still desire to be under the Law...after all Jesus said so himself in Luke 5:39....but you probably read over it and never took it that way. The "Spiritual" Law of Christ is NOT in accordance with the Law of Moses."
"I don't know....he did allot of things he wasn't supposed to do on the Sabbath. He's the Lord of the Sabbath and if he's in you....then SO ARE YOU..because.....AS HE IS, even so are we in this world. (1 John 4:17) The law is NOT for the righteous man....but for the lawless and disobedient. (1 Tim 1:9) We have a higher calling of the spirit! These "Carnal Ordinances" of the Aaronic Priesthood were completely and TOTALY fulfilled. God has given ALL POWER to his SON under the order of Melchisedec....and yes, this does include the 10 Commandments!!......Jesus gave us 2 Commandments that are far GREATER!!! Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second like [unto it] is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the WHOLE LAW HANGETH, and the prophets. Mat 22:36-40 And as for the good ole BBQ pork...Why not? "For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it be received with THANKSGIVING:" 1 Tim 4:4 BECAUSE IT'S... "Not that which entereth into the MOUTH defileth the man; but that which proceedeth out of the MOUTH, this defileth the man." Matt 15:11"
"Answered your own question didn't you?"
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| ertsky | Jan 23 2007, 09:07 PM Post #2 |
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excellent thought provoking post! really got me meditating on this subject which has come up in my life a few times and indeed has been a pivotal area, and the Lord seemed to be really opening some things up. i'll post as soon as i get back from work! (cant wait :)) f |
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| Skydreamer | Jan 23 2007, 10:18 PM Post #3 |
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oh boy, do I know what you are going through!! I came to Christ through the SDA church who are Sabbath keepers. A great and close SDA friend of mine who has come to accept the truths of universal salvation and the sovereignty of God still holds fast to Sabbath keeping taught by the church. This one was a hard one for me to grasp myself and it took much study and prayer. Needless to say I have had many lengthy discussions with my friend over the Sabbath, and we have had to agree to disagree. It seems to me however that Sabbath keepers do not, and CAN NOT keep the sabbath as outlined in the old testament. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do ANY WORK, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. Exodus 20:8-10 ESV Who makes sure that no one in their family and any visitors and anyone in their employment does not do any work? I’ve read countless articles on what supposedly correctly constitutes proper Sabbath keeping. Can you eat at a restaurant? Can you light a fire? Etc etc. But clearly we see that the Law required to prepare for the Sabbath on the sixth day or you were in danger of being stoned. And this had always confused me in the past as someone who wanted to sincerely "keep the Sabbath". I could never figure out what part of physically keeping the Sabbath do I keep and what part is done away with?? And where is the scripture that defines this? What I read is: For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. James 2:10 ESV For all who rely on works of the law are UNDER A CURSE; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by ALL things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Galatians 3:10 ESV In my experience in the SDA church I did not see anyone "keep" the sabbath as outlined by God, yet none of them would think of "stoning" anyone even if it was proven that they broke the Sabbath. To this I am told, we are to keep the Sabbath day in a spiritual way......say what?? To me either you keep the physical Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Covenant Law or you keep it spiritually. How can you do both? I mean really, how do you physically keep a physical day in a spiritual way? This seems to me what Jesus meant when he said you can't put new wine into old wineskins: And He also spoke a parable to them: No one puts a piece of a new garment on an old garment. Otherwise, both the new will tear, and THE OLD DOES NOT MATCH THE PIECE FROM THE NEW. And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. Else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskin will perish. But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved together. Also no one having drunk old wine immediately desires new, for he says, The old is better. Luke 5:36-39 MKJV It does seem clear to me that Jesus DID break the sabbath: But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working." This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was HE BREAKING THE SABBATH, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:17-18 ESV I'm sure John the apostle is not lying! I think Mike Vinson makes a valid point in that Jesus probably broke the Sabbath to begin to break the news to the people at the time and to show us as readers that a CHANGE was coming. How else do you explain Jesus clearly violating the Sabbath as commanded by Himself in the Old Testament. Sabbath keepers insist that he violated the commandents or traditions of the Pharisees, but I think Mike proves this is not so in his paper The Law of Moses vs the Law of the Spirit. Clearly a man was stoned for gathering sticks, and clearly you were not to carry a burden on the Sabbath. Jesus could have healed that man and let him rest instead of telling him to take up his bed and walk. Sabbath keepers have no explanation for this. My friend had no answers for some of the points I brought up to her and even though she admitted they were valid points and good questions she still will not look into it further and refuses to budge on her beliefs about the Sabbath. In fact, she feels sad and dismayed for me because she thinks I once had the truth about the Sabbath and now I've been led astray. What can I say? It is not God's will I guess that she and I see eye to eye on this. I can only go with what I feel God has convicted me on. So I can understand where you are coming from and I will pray for you and your friend that if it is in God's will, he will be open to hearing the things you have to say. God be with you!! Diana |
| Grace and Peace, Diana | |
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| ertsky | Jan 23 2007, 11:50 PM Post #4 |
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fantastic!! what a great time i had with the Lord thinking on this subject! over the years i have had so many talks with people who were bent on keeping the law that i was surprised how many fresh ways of looking at the subject God was willing to share with me today and thanks Mickyd for posting. this is what i got most recently, the reasoning is as follows. question: did Christ fulfill the law? answer: of course He did. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Christ fulfilled the law Rom 10:4 For Christ is the consummation of law for righteousness to everyone who is believing. so that Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. and Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. the law was a shadow of the good things to come Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. so trying to keep the old law (any part of it) is to suggest Christ did NOT fulfill it. because if one believes Christ fulfilled the law, why would he tempt God by trying to keep that which Christ fulfilled, unless He secretly thinks Christs fulfillment of the law is not sufficient? UNBELIEF? so one who wants to please God should never try to keep that which is fulfilled and superseded, done away, in Christ ! 2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. i could go on and on but well enough for now. truly Christ is all! Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. PS: this passage Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: f |
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| SteveO | Jan 23 2007, 11:52 PM Post #5 |
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Hello Micky...and Frank I can't type very much so i'll have to be brief. I would first say this to you Micky, i don't know how many times you've debated this person but always remember... Tit 3:10 A sectarian man [Heretic], after one and a second admonition, refuse, Tit 3:11 being aware that such a one has turned himself out, and is sinning, being self-condemned." We can never make anyone see the truth, I know this from personal experience. He said: "Let me clarify my point by posing the following question: If Jesus were to knock on your door next Friday (Sabbath) night, do you think he would offer to help you put a new roof on your house then sit down to a nice BBQ pork dinner?" First i'd show him these verse's... Mat 12:1 At that season Jesus went through the sowings on the sabbaths. Now His disciples hunger, and they begin to be plucking the ears and to be eating. Mat 12:2 Now the Pharisees, perceiving it, say to Him, "Lo! your disciples are doing what is not allowed to be done on a sabbath." Mat 12:3 Yet He said to them, "Did you not read what David does when he hungers, and those with him: Mat 12:4 how he entered into the house of God and they ate the show bread, which he was not allowed to eat, neither those with him, except the priests only? Mat 12:5 "Or did you not read in the law that on the sabbaths the priests in the sanctuary are profaning the sabbath and are faultless? Mat 12:6 Now I am saying to you that a Greater than the sanctuary is here. Mat 12:7 Now if you had known what this is: Mercy am I wanting, and not sacrifice-you would not convict the faultless, Mat 12:8 for the Son of Mankind is Lord of the sabbath." Mat 12:9 And, proceeding thence, He came into their synagogue. Mat 12:10 And lo! a man having a withered hand. And they inquire of Him, saying, "Is it allowed on the sabbaths to cure?" that they should be accusing Him. Mat 12:11 Now He said to them, "What man of you will there be, who will have one sheep, and if ever this should be falling into a pit on the sabbaths, will not take hold of it and raise it? Mat 12:12 Of how much more consequence, then, is a man than a sheep! So that it is allowed to be doing ideally on the sabbaths." Mat 12:13 Then He is saying to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretches it out and it was restored, sound as the other. Mat 12:14 Now, coming, the Pharisees held a consultation against Him, so that they should be destroying Him. Mat 12:15 Now Jesus, knowing it, retires thence. And many follow Him, and He cures them all. Mar 2:23 And He came, on the sabbaths, to be going by through the sowings. And His disciples begin making a path, plucking the ears." Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said to Him, "Lo! What they are doing on the sabbaths is what is not allowed." Mar 2:25 And He said to them, "Did you never read what David does, when he had need and hungers, he and those with him? Mar 2:26 How he entered into the house of God under Abiathar the chief priest, and ate the show bread, which is not allowed to be eaten except by the priests, and he gives also to those who are with him? Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The sabbath came because of mankind, and not mankind because of the sabbath, Mar 2:28 so that the Son of Mankind is Lord, also, of the sabbath." Then next these... Joh 5:5 Now a certain man was there having been in his infirmity thirty-eight years. Joh 5:6 Jesus, perceiving this one lying down, and knowing that he has already spent much time, is saying to him, "Do you want to become sound? Joh 5:7 The infirm man answered Him, "Lord, I have no man that, whenever the water may be disturbed, should be casting me into the pool. Now in the time in which I am coming another is descending before me." Joh 5:8 Jesus is saying to him, "Rouse and pick up your pallet and walk!" Joh 5:9 And immediately the man became sound, and he was roused and picks up his pallet and walked. Now it was a sabbath on that day." Joh 5:10 The Jews, then, said to him who has been cured, "It is a sabbath, and it is not allowed you to pick up your pallet!" Joh 5:11 Yet he answered them, "He Who makes me sound, that One said to me, 'Pick up your pallet and walk.'" Joh 5:12 They ask him then, "Who is the man who said to you, 'Pick up your pallet and walk'? Joh 5:13 Now he who is healed had not perceived Who He is, for Jesus evades him, a throng being in the place." Joh 5:14 After these things Jesus is finding him in the sanctuary, and said to him, "Lo! you have become sound. By no means longer be sinning, lest something worse may be coming to you." Joh 5:15 And the man, then, came away and informs the Jews that Jesus is the One Who makes him sound." Joh 5:16 And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, for He did these things on a sabbath." Joh 5:17 Yet Jesus answers them, "My Father is working hitherto, and I am working." Luk 6:1 Now it occurred on the second first sabbath, He is going through the sowings, and His disciples plucked the ears and ate, rubbing them together in their hands." Luk 6:2 Now certain of the Pharisees said to the, "What you are doing is what is not allowed to be done on the sabbaths." Luk 6:3 And answering, Jesus said to them, "Did you not even read this, which David does once when he hungers, he and those who are with him, Luk 6:4 how he entered into the house of God, and, taking the showbread, he ate also, and gives to those with him also, that which is not allowed to be eaten except only by the priests? Luk 6:5 And He said to them that "The Son of Mankind is Lord of the sabbaths also." Luk 6:6 Now it occurred on a different sabbath also, He is entering into the synagogue and teaching. And there was a man there, and his right hand was withered." Luk 6:7 Now the scribes and the Pharisees scrutinized Him, to see if He is curing on the sabbath, that they may be finding an accusation against Him." Luk 6:8 Yet He had perceived their reasonings. Now He said to the man having the withered hand, "Rouse and stand in the midst.And rising, he stood." Luk 6:9 Now Jesus said to them, "I will be inquiring of you if it is allowed on the sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save a soul or to destroy? Luk 6:10 And looking about on them all, He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand.Now he does it, and his hand was restored as the other." Luk 6:11 Now they are filled with folly, and they spoke about it to one another, saying, What should they be doing to Jesus? And especially theses... Col 2:14 Having blotted out the handwriting against us by the decrees, which was hostile to us,-and hath taken away, the same, out of the midst, nailing it up to the cross: Col 2:15 Spoiling the principalities and the authorities, he made of them an open example, celebrating a triumph over them thereby. Col 2:16 Let no one, therefore, be judging, you,-in eating and in drinking, or in respect of feast, or new moon, or sabbath,- Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of the things to come, whereas, the body, is of the Christ. If he can't see that Christ 'broke the letter of the sabbath' then.....Tit. 3:10 Hope that helps...Steve |
| Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. | |
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| SteveO | Jan 24 2007, 12:02 AM Post #6 |
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Frank nailed it! (no pun intended:).... "so trying to keep the old law (any part of it) is to suggest Christ did NOT fulfill it. because if one believes Christ fulfilled the law, why would he tempt God by trying to keep that which Christ fulfilled, unless He secretly thinks Christs fulfillment of the law is not sufficient?" To go along with that remember Paul was BLAMELESS in the law, along with the 'rich young ruler' who came to Christ. Paul was KILLING his brothers while being blameless in the 'righteousness in the law', and the young ruler, Christ said he was lacking in something, while being 'blameless' as well. He was lacking Christ who fulfilled the LAW of Jesus Christ for us:) Peace...Steve |
| Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. | |
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2007, 12:04 AM Post #7 |
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even back in churchgoing days i sensed that the law was crushing me, killing me, undoing me, God caused me to know clearly that the law was what revealed sin. i feel sympathy for people who cant discern that the law is the strength of sin. i love these verses 1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. praise Him praise Him praise Him Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: i am never happier than when i sense yet again that He is the fulfillment not only of the law but also of me thank you so much Lord f PS: what liberty what strength what joy belongs to them who acknowledge that in them that is in their flesh dwells no good thing and that in Him is all that is worthy. Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. |
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2007, 12:39 AM Post #8 |
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OMG!! AND THE PROPHETS!!! the law AND THE PROPHETS!! GOOD GOD!! He is the fulfillment of EVERYTHING!!! ertsky you dunderhead!! :lol: :lol: so good to be here with the israel of God Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. so God picked today to bless old ertsky f |
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2007, 12:47 AM Post #9 |
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it amazes me also how this is in Mickyd and Steves posts Mickyd has
SteveO has
that phrase "hostile to us" revealing something key about the old law yes yes yes the Israel of God bless you guys heaps f |
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2007, 12:49 AM Post #10 |
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"has taken away" BRILLIANT!! ok gotta stop reading, i'm going to explode, wineskin at full stretch LOL! f PS: yes yes yes Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. f PPS: thanks for that excellent post Diana f |
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| sandra | Jan 24 2007, 04:29 AM Post #11 |
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These "Carnal Ordinances" of the Aaronic Priesthood were completely and TOTALY fulfilled. God has given ALL POWER to his SON under the order of Melchisedec.... But clearly we see that the Law required to prepare for the Sabbath on the sixth day or you were IN DANGER of BEING STONED. Hi everyone, Great posts thank you All. By two quotes above got me thinking (Priesthood and stone(s)) These two go well together in the Old Priesthood/Letter of the Law/stoning/killing/death !!! ---- In the New/Royal Priesthood/Law ofSpirit/lively stones/living stones/life If i were funny like frank - i would probably say, something like, hmmm i'm thinking -Old ??????New??????? :lol: - I'm thinking!!!! These verses come to mind: 1Peter2:3-9 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. To whom coming ,as unto a LiVING STONE, Disallowed indeed of Men, but CHOSEN of GOD, and Precious, Ye also, as Lively stones, are Built up a SPIRITUAL HOUSE, a HOLY PRIESTHOOD, to offer up SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, Acceptable to GOD By JESUS CHRIST, Wherefore also It Is contained in the Scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a Chief Corner Stone, Elect, Precious: and he that Believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto You therefore which believe HE IS Precious: but unto Them which be Disobedient, the Stone which the Builders Disallowed, the Same is made the Head of the Ccorner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to Them which Stumble at the WORD, being disobedient; whereunto also They were Appointed. But ye are a Chosen Generation, a ROYAL Priesthood, a HOLY Nation, a Peculiar People; that ye Should Shew Forth the PRAISES of HIM who hath Called you Out of Darkness into his Marvellous Light. God Bless - the Israel of God sandra |
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And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; Neither shall they say, Lo here: or, lo there: for behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Lk17:20-21 | |
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| Mickyd | Jan 24 2007, 07:27 AM Post #12 |
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Thanks ever so much for the help folks! I think (with God's help) I can compile a good response from your post. My friend is struggleing with our understanding of the scriptures. It's difficult to shake 35 years of Babylonian teaching....as I'm sure we all can attest. Peace... Will |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Jan 24 2007, 07:38 PM Post #13 |
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Grace & Peace unto you, Basically I agree to ALL that has been said. BUT? Would I eat a pork sandwich on the 7th day (at lunch time?wash it down with a beer Or water) While i was tearing off a 4 layer roof????????????????? OR even on attonement The 10th day of the 7th moon (which the {jews now days} will not allow to be on friday ?????? When I was to do (NO) WHATSOVER work not Any work.on a FAST DAY WHEN/NOTHING was to be eaten or drank??? LEV 23:26-32 Notice It states it TWICE VERSE 31 WELL that DEPENDS??? If it' offended my brother or sister that( I knew HIM/he was learning?) would wound his WEAK concious. I WOULD NOT Roms 14:1 -23/ james 3:17/ james 4;11/ 1 cor 8:1-13 If he BELIEVES in CHRISTMAS OR EASTER. I would do the same thing . Because he BELIEVES THIS. THIS IS GOD'S WILL I WOULD not go out of my way to offend him.(IF) he was my brother or sister. roms 14:15-16 Who's my brother Or sister? mt 12:50 So Any other TIME (i do not keep times days/weeks/ moons /seasons (My holy days) any more like i did for 25 years/ gal 4;9-11/OR christmas ,easter/new years day, st valintines, st patty's day or ANY OTHER days of MEN/moses) NO man (other) than christ ever kept the SABBATH DAY IN SPIRIT & TRUTH. He broke the carnal observance/But not the spiritual observance/REST. heb 3:18-19/ heb 4:1-12 IN THIS WE LABOUR (TO CEASE FROM/ mt 1 ;21 OUR WORKS/SIN) & DO HIS LABOUR (his RIGHTOUSNESS) TO ENTER HIS REST/SABBATH. Also I'm a roofer by TRADE.I have no problem (know /before it was a stumbling block) EATING PORK ON THE SABBATH DAY (7th day) OR attonement (FAST DAY) 10 th day of the 7th moon)OR if it lands on both days(sometimes it does). BUT if my brother was coming around ( i would cease from my labour) & interested( in my herbs).I would go (out of my way) NOT TO OFFEND HIM & GENTLY instuct him in the spirit of meekness. gal 6;1-2/ 1 tim 1:5-8 (SPIRIT OF THE LAW/ roms 8:2/ james 1:19-27) 2 tim 2:23-26 That they may RECOVER (AWAKE) themselves out of the snare of the DEVIL , WHO are taken CAPTIVE by him at his WILL. WE must be very careful with this LIBERTY BROTHERS & SISTERS.It was not more than a few years ago I was (VERY ZEALOUS) for the LAW OF MOSES. ACTS 21:17-26 Paul took a nazerite VOW/Num 6: IT WAS NOT REQUIRED IN THE (LAW OF MOSES) IT WAS A (SIGN) OF SUBMISSION.Jews seek a sign. YET james ( A DEVOUT JEW/YET CONVERTED means JACOB) ASKED HIM TOO ,PAUL DID (TAKE THIS VOW/SPIRITUALY & CARNALLY) /temporary (HE DID NOT HAVE TO/UNDER MOSES)??? TIMOTHY P.S EVERYTHING YOU WROTE IS CORRECT/BUT BE CAREFUL WITH THIS LIBERTY OFFENCES WILL COME/BUT DON"T GO OUT OF (HIS) WAY TO CAUSE THEM. But not to offend you would have to go out of the EARTH/CHURCH/WORLD BECAUSE PEOPLE (called yet not chosen yet) STIR UP THE PEOPLE ( 7 churches /INSIDE YOU temple /church) these ARE THE JEWS FROM ASIA (those that turn away) & JERUSALEM/bondservants Acts 17:1-17 NOT FREE We are going to be UNDER THE MICROSCOPE/USE WISDOM. If you speak on the (law of moses) understand It (study it).Like this for instance (sunday,Is not the sabbath day (7th day under moses) Yet some teach that it is the sabbath? Is this is error.yes. Do we keep the law of moses NO So know the (law of moses/shadow) & then you will know the (LAW OF CHRIST/substance).Same thing for the offerings , holydays,Purification ,clean& unclean,Priestly orders, Tribal orders & charactors ,Tabernacle & its furnishings EVERYTHING the prophets did (HAVE SPIRITUAL APPLICATIONS WITH US) ALL THE WORD. LETTER KILLS/SPIRIT BRINGS LIFE/ The LAW HAS BEEN CHANGED Letter to spirit (LETTER is DESTROYED) Not the spirit OF THE LAW IS (jubilee). LIBERTY james 1:25 1 jn 3:4 |
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| Mickyd | Jan 24 2007, 07:58 PM Post #14 |
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Ok.....I used the bulk of one of ertsky's post for a reply. Here is the result.....again, the "quotes" are his remarks followed by mine/ertsky's. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matt 5:17 Do you believe Jesus "fulfilled" the Law or not?
"For Christ is the consummation of law for righteousness to everyone who is believing." Rom 10:4 So that "For ALL THE LAW is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Gal 5:14
and "Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He TAKETH AWAY the first, that he may establish the second." Heb 10:9 The Law was a shadow of the good things to come. "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can NEVER with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect." Heb 10:1
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that NO MAN is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith." Gal 3:10 - 11 So..... trying to keep the old law (any part of it) is to suggest Jesus did NOT fulfill it.....because if one believes he did fulfill the law, why would he tempt God by trying to keep that which Jesus fulfilled, unless He secretly thinks his fulfillment of the law is not sufficient?
"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Heb 8:7 - 8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth ALL THE FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of ALL principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col 2:8-17
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2007, 11:48 PM Post #15 |
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Diligent Member
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hi Mickyd well even if your friend never gets it please be assured that sharing what you did in the posts here was mightily used of God to bless me. i noticed your friend said
i find it interesting how people will equate "not under the law" with "shouldn't obey the commandments" how wrong that line of thinking is i am not under the law yet Christ in me does always those things that please our Father. it's not that we "shouldn't obey the law" it's that we "can't obey the law" God how i used to try LOL! (oh i can laugh now) but the man of sin is too strong! people who have some seeming romantic attachment to law keeping obviously know nothing about the true intent of the law, namely, to make us cry out in excruciating pain... OH WRETCHED MAN THAT I AM!!! Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [sarcasm on] great, lets all love the law and realise time and time again that we are an abomination in the sight of God!! lets not move on to the maturity of the Lord Jesus lets just pretend we can honour God by keeping the law, [sarcasm off] talk about great delusion!!! but i must try not to get frustrated with blind people after all i am one of them. if i never meet another OT law lover for a million years it will be way too soon, but as always not my will but thine be done in earth as it is in heaven. well it's back to blessing town for me, where ALL is fulfilled in my Mega Saviour and closest friend the Lord Jesus Christ who Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. WOOHOO! take that man of sin in me TAKE THAT!!!! ertsky glorying IN THE LORD!!!! f |
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7:20 PM Jul 10