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Sabbath; Help!!
Topic Started: Jan 23 2007, 07:46 PM (1,369 Views)
SteveO
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Hi all,


MickyD,

I'd like to deal with this subject, because its one that has baffled me for years. This section in particular...

Quote:
 
"Once again, “one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” All has not been fulfilled because the second coming hasn’t happened yet.


"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought
for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Heb 8:7 - 8"
Quote:
 



Mike's 'Law vs. Spirit' paper in excellent at this, and also his audio 'Both are preserved'. First lets establish the doctrine behind what i'd like to say, that 'man shall live every word of God Word'.

Deu 8:3 So He made you humble and let you hunger; then He fed you with the manna which neither you had known, nor had your fathers known, that He might make you realize that not on bread alone shall the human live, for by every utterance from the mouth of Yahweh shall the human live.

Mat 4:4 Yet He, answering, said, "It is written, 'Not on bread alone shall man be living, but on every declaration going out through the mouth of God.'"

Ok then, how can we say we are to live every word, but the ten commandments and the rest of the law are not 'for us'? We can't! The law of Moses was made for an unrighteous man. Now let me ask you, are you an unrighteous man/women?

If you say 'no' then you've much to learn about the word of God...

Rom 3:10 according as it is written, that "Not one is just- not even one."

Is this verse talking to you and me, even 'while being converted'?

Our flesh is STILL UNDER THE CARNAL COMMANDMENT! It's the LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. Do you sin, and are you dying? So how can we say we are 'not' under the law while, and yet being under it?


Gal 4:2 but is under guardians and administrators until the time purposed by the father.
Gal 4:3 Thus we also, when we were minors, were enslaved under the elements of the world."
Gal 4:4 Now when the full time came, God delegates His Son, come of a woman, come under law, "


Jesus Christ is, was, and will be under the law OF SIN AND DEATH, until all and all has been accomplished. How can i say that? First read the above verse (Gal. 4:4) then this...

2Co 5:21 For he hath made [5656 AORIST] him to be sin for us, who knew [5631 AORIST] no sin; that2443 we2249 might be made1096 [5741] the righteousness1343 of God2316 in1722 him846.

This verse properly translated should read per the tenses this {'aorist tense'}...

"For he IS MAKING, HIM SIN for us, who IS KNOWING NO SIN...."

He is still being made of and under that 'women' IN US, who are STILL under that law of sin and death to this second.

Now, read this verse he quoted properly translated...

Mat 5:18 For1063 verily281 I say3004 [5719] unto you5213, Till heaven and earth pass3928 [5632 AORIST], one1520 jot2503 or2228 one3391 tittle2762 shall in no wise3364 pass3928 [5632] from575 the law3551, till all be fulfilled1096 [5638 AORIST].

So this should read...

Till heaven and earth ARE PASSING, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise BE PASSING from the law, till all IS BEING FULFILLED.

Christ has fulfilled all as far a God is concerned, and is BEING FULFILLED IN US FOR HIS BODY'S SAKE WHICH IS THE CHURCH...

Rom 4:17 according as it is written that, A father of many nations have I appointed you - facing which, he believes it of the God Who is vivifying the dead and calling what is not as if it were -"


Here's how Christ explained this question, so let's let him speak...

Mat 9:16 Now no one is patching a patch of unshrunk shred on an old cloak, for the patch which fills it up is lifting some from the cloak itself, and the rent is becoming worse.
Mat 9:17 Neither are they draining fresh wine into old wine skins; otherwise, surely the wine skins are bursting, and the wine is spilling, and the wine skins perish. But they are draining fresh wine into new wine skins, and both are preserved."

Luk 5:36 Now He told them a parable also, that "No one, rending a patch from a new cloak, is patching it on an old cloak. Otherwise, surely the new also will be rending, and the patch from the new will not be agreeing with the old."
Luk 5:37 And no one is draining fresh wine into old wine skins. Otherwise, surely the fresh wine will be bursting the wine skins, and it will be spilled and the wine skins will perish."
Luk 5:38 But fresh wine is drained into new wine skins, and both are preserved."
Luk 5:39 And no one, drinking the old, immediately is wanting the fresh, for he is saying, 'The old is mellower.'"


BOTH ARE PRESERVED FOR WHO? SOME ONE ELSE? No, No, No....for US! When we sin we are under the law of sin and death...the wages of sin IS death.

Thou Shalt Not Covet is STILL IN EFFECT FOR THOSE WHO BREAK IT. You LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD. Was it not Jesus speaking to Moses on Mount?

To those to whom are given the power, chosen by God this law of SIN and death WILL NO LONGER HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU! AMEN!

Your, Lord willing no longer a SLAVE TO IT, and losing every battle the beast wages. Remember the BEAST WAS....IS NOT....AND YET IS. Its still there under the law, and needs the deadly wound only the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT CAN GIVE, AND NEEDS IT DAILY.

So to say Christ 'fulfilled the law' past tense ONLY, is not correct. Christ IS, WAS, AND WILL BE FULFILLING THE LAW, so that we may be being made the righteousness of him, in us. Not of our works, but of Christs.

It's still not ok to murder, or have other God's before him, or profane the sabbath, etc, but the chosen faithful are not a 'slave' to those carnal commandments anymore, but under the new covenant. A covenant higher than the heavens are from the earth, or in other words Christ spiritual covenant.

You may say. 'then why don't we kill sheep,and ox's, goats, in the temple anymore?' The answer is we should be doing those things ONLY SPIRITUALLY. We are learning in the audios how we are to be bringing 'our' offerings, to this day. Carefully read this verse...

Heb 8:13 In saying "new,He has made the former old. Now that which is growing old and decrepit is near its disappearance."

The old is ready to disappear because daily were going from glory to glory, the 'old man' and his 'righteousness' is being crushed daily, while the 'new man' Christ is being renewed, and empowered daily. BOTH ARE HAPPENING SIMULTANEOUSLY, AND BOTH ARE PRESERVED. When we sin WE prefer the 'old' just like Christ says in Mat. 5. When we partake of the 'new' it's through Christ in us and nothing else.


I wanted to help clear that up, because it's often misunderstood that the bible is written in an 'pasted tense only' way, but is rather written COMPLETELY FROM THE 'IS, WAS, AND WILL BE' perspective.

Peace...Steve
Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.
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ertsky
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very edifying post SteveO!!! to say the least

it's a big

AMEN!

from me

f

PS: yes bro, if the beast rears it's ugly head and i assent to it then the law is there quick as a flash and twice as deadly to sin in me.

the soul that sinneth it shall die

what a great revelation.

i love this where we can share what's in our hearts and edify and help one another (Christ in us)

till we all come

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

yes this is what God is doing in us

AWESOME!! again thanks for taking the time to share what God has so evidently given you

f

PPS: yes i was thinking "was" in terms of fulfilled the OT law but how exciting to think in terms of "is was and will be"

fulfilled fulfilling and will fulfill, what a happy refrain to glorify the Lord only for the great things He is was and will be doing.

all in all

WOOHOO! my mind doesn't quite get it yet but my spirit knows something is cooking in God's kitchen

bringing many sons to glory

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

let the living water flow

let the water be turned into wine

let the marriage supper of the Lord be filled

Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

f
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Timothy Vaughan
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Dear Steve,

Very well written ,this is my understanding. It appears the lord has given you a gift
for explaining his will on (heavenly things) may he continue to BLESS you & keep you.

My way of writing is more like ( spiritual retardation) its lacking in logical thought process
& is very cut up.I think because I try to explain in jumping around to much.Like a child that is fidgeting & needs to be still & quite.

This process we go through sure is Exciting! I'm like a spounge that can seem to get enough water. Most the time i need wringed out & put back in clean water again .

Much is on the lords table now to eat >It surely is a Daily feast day/a continual feast! Blessed be Our lord & master who kills these beasts & feeds us with judgement. And gives us pure water to drink from his river of life.Or the sweet (new wine) from his vine. AFTER he has trampled the grapes of wrath with his beautiful feet that publishes PEACE.

I hope you were and are able to find a way to dallas,tx.I didn't get to know every body in michigan, hope fully that will change .but the time goes by O so quickly on this vapor clock.


Timothy
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Mickyd
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Thanks again to all of you. There have been some very good post to come out of this and I've learned allot from it myself. :smart:

Thanks again!
Will
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SteveO
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Hello all,

The is, was, and will be facet of the word of God is so complex that's is simple, and is so genius that ONLY God can be behind it. That's the best way i'd describe it.

Timothy,

That last post was great, and very understandable....do that more:)

Peace to all....Steve
Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.
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lrolson
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Hello

I have been reading these posts on the sabbath since they started. I too am an X sabbth keeper (breaker). I was a member of the Worlwide Church of God. I have been searching for satisfaction on understanding the sabbath for a long time (20 years). Wanted to post on this but up until now I didn't feel I had anything to add to what was already posted.

I finnally feel satisfied with what the Lord has shown me about this perplexing subject.

Knowing this,
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And this,
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Somehow we are to live out the sabbath....and the sabbath is a shadow of something.

The law is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (read Mikes paper on the law).
We all eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And die. The law puts us to death. Because we break it. The problem is not with the law but with us.

What did the sabbath shadow? (Rest)?

In living by every word we eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We die, and then we rest. Six days shalt thou work and then rest on the sabbath.
We prepare on the preparation day. What do we prepare? Food. Jesus. We eat Jesus (the word), (the law). We die and rest. We enter into his rest. He fulfilled the sabbath. He died. He died on the preparation day. He rests (is dead) on the sabbath. And then is raised on the first day of the week. All in us. Flesh is nailed to the cross. This is the first death group. The elect. This 7 day cycle was lived out by Isreal for centuries as a shadow for us to see. This rest that we must enter into is his death. Then we come up out of this death and are raised a new creature.

Thus fulfilling the sabbath. Think not that I am come to destroy but to fulfill!
He fulfilled the sabbath by dying, and he will fulfill it in every man (the second death group) in his own order. He fulfills it in his elect now (the first death group).
We must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Rick
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ertsky
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i'm thinking of the sabbath as in ceasing from our own works

Heb 4:8 For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day.
Heb 4:9 So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own.
Heb 4:11 Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.

every time i start getting carried away trying to do with the arm of flesh what only Christ in me can do i feel the chastening grace, the consuming fire, like God is saying "touch the unclean thing will you son, here have this perfect fiery justice or you'll be destroyed with the world" or something like that

i found this great verse

Joh 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

f
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lrolson
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Frank

It is entering into death (rest) that we cease from our works. And he dies in us (our flesh). That is the rest of Hebrews 4.

1Ki 22:40 So Ahab slept with his fathers; and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

1Ki 22:50 And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.

2Ki 8:24 And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.

2Ki 10:35 And Jehu slept with his fathers: and they buried him in Samaria. And Jehoahaz his son reigned in his stead.

2Ki 13:9 And Jehoahaz slept with his fathers; and they buried him in Samaria: and Joash his son reigned in his stead.

2Ki 14:16 And Jehoash slept with his fathers, and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son reigned in his stead.

All of these verses show that the old man dies and the son (new man) reigned in his stead.

The old man slept (rests) (sabbath), then the new man (Christ) reigns.
All inwardly.

The spiritual fulfillment of the sabbath is death.

Jesus said think not that I am come to destroy the law, but to fulfill. Jesus fulfilled the sabbath by resting (death) on the sabbath. He died on the preparation day and rested (was dead) on the sabbath.

He fulfills the sabbath by dying in us. The old man dies and then he reigns in us.
Circumcision was on the eigth day. The new man rises on the eigth day. Judgement begins on the house of God. Now is judgement day for the new man. We are dying daily. I must decrease and He must increase. The old man is resting. The new man (second Adam) Christ is being formed in us.

Rick
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ertsky
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Hi Rick

great post

though when you say

Quote:
 
Now is judgement day for the new man.


actually the new man is Christ in us, and there is no condemnation to Him

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

so we see

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

notice

he that believeth not is condemned already, that one in us must be put to death in Christ.

we know it is only by entering into Christ Jesus' death that we die with and in Him, only then, we can cease from our own works, if we are dead with and in HIM.

with and in and through Him we (the Father in Christ in us) can do ALL things

it is impossible with men but with God all things shall be possible

therefore i say unto you all things are possible to Him that believes

the promise is through Faith, not of works lest any man should boast

we know the Father will not receive any old offering, only the perfect spotless lamb of God will the Father accept

we must get the doctrine STRAIGHT or we will still be bound under SIN

only He that is dead is free from sin and the only way we can die is IN, WITH and THROUGH, HIM

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

we know that apart from Him nothing is acceptable or pleasing to the Father

if our offering is not Him and in Him the fire will not fall, our God is a consuming fire and there is only one Offering He will fall on

we are only acceptable in the beloved

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

all things are yours, and you are Christ's, and Christ is God's

therefore i say all things are yours

we must hear the Son, He is our life, our peace

He that honours the Son honours the Father

and the Son will purify unto Himself and therefore to His Father a people

and He is the only perfecter of His children which His Father gives to Him

can we perfect in the flesh what God has begun in the spirit, we know the answer is a resounding and very sad NO! we know this because we tried it many times and it always missed the mark and failed miserably.

we are put to death in flesh made alive in the spirit

then we hear a resounding YES!!!

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
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lrolson
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Frank

You are absolutely correct! I did say that wrong. I do have it right in my mind though.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall (not) come into (condemnation); but is passed from death unto life.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now (no condemnation) to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

So the (old man) is conndemned and put to death (enters into rest) (sabbath) and the new man rises and is (not) condemned. Again....Rom 8:1 There is therefore now (no condemnation) to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rick
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