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| Spiritual Growth, Maturity | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 10 2007, 05:20 PM (660 Views) | |
| mittahaw | Dec 10 2007, 05:20 PM Post #1 |
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Hello all, I'm wondering if there are others who expeienced frustration, especially in the earlier times when their eyes were being opened to the truth. I'm going through that almost every other day. It seems I'm shown some nugget of truth one day, and the next I'm struggling terribly to accept another nugget. I've learned so very much by means of IWWB and the doctrines here. I guess the beast I am is resisting the spirit of Truth. I just don't know. I suppose that no growth comes as swiftly as the flesh would like. I guess I just need to know I'm not alone in this, and there are others who understand the struggle and frustration. God be w/ you all. Tim |
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| ertsky | Dec 26 2007, 03:12 PM Post #2 |
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absolutely empathising here Tim verses 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. one thing that can encourage us is that our experience of suffering is scriptural heres another verse Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. there is no way around it Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; Php 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me. but there is a Way through Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. i remember one night being in such distress i wanted to ram my head through a wall just to relieve the tension, thank God He kept me from it, i had some good days after that dark night looking back most of the tension came from my own pig headed refusal to just accept that i was powerless to help myself i had so many false doctrines and misconceptions abounding in me it's a wonder i didn't die of confusion there is one ugly little man of Sin in us and He doesn't go without a fight, he's like a drunken night club patron that curses and spits at the bouncers even as they turf him out of his own club, well he thought it was his but to respond to your post directly
oh you better believe it, frustration aplenty
absolutely
at times i had it like every day weeks on end, at least it seemed that way
yes, look at israel in the word, one day great victory, another day huge setback it's a huge problem we face, only the Lord is sufficient 2Co 2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
that seems to be a key, to keep learning good spiritual truths and rather than being drawn into fighting in your own strength just try to realise that it's got to be the Lord Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
you betcha! he hates Christ in you, because he knows why Christ is come 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: the part of you that hates Christ in you is weak and limited, despite his protestations, death can hold him no problems but Christ in you, death cannot hold Him, he surrenders Himself to death to kill that man of sin Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. the beast will absolutely not finally prevail Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. but He must increase we must decrease at times it gets really rough Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. but in all this it's best to be humbled 1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
yes! there certainly are, Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. it is scriptural and so is this 2Co 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; 2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. 2Co 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 2Co 1:6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. but surely the Person who understands most what you are going through is Jesus He is in you going through it all with you right now Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. i find it very encouraging that when the enemy within me troubles me it is really Jesus of Nazareth in me that He troubles Act 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. f |
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| David Rogers | Jan 24 2008, 08:13 PM Post #3 |
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HI Tim Just got on board and I saw your message. I understand what your going through. Only been talking with Mike V. since Thanskgiving and very much a newbie to seeing scriptures differnetly. I wish certain things would be learned, matured or burnt out more quickly than they are. But as I understand God wants us to be in a position while were in the flesh to always see the need to cry out to him. So that nothing about the flesh can boast because knowledge does puff us up. Were being given something hardly anyone else at this time will see or understand in this age. It's easier said than to go through it, just be patient and hold on, God will change things as He see fit for all things are according to His divine will. Dave From Frosty Rochester,NY |
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| nbogosian | Feb 27 2008, 11:48 AM Post #4 |
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Hi, I, too, understand. (I am almost ashamed for how much I still struggle despite the Truth I have been given, but I don't know if shame is necessarily what I should be feeling.....) "Wherefore I also said, I will NOT drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you" (Judges 2:3) "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure" (2 Cor. 12:7) It encourages me to know that these struggles (Eph 6:12: For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.) are necessary and SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for us out of God's love: "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 1:7) I think Mike said something similar to, "The greater our experience of evil, the greater our appreciation and love for the good" It also encourages me to know that this struggle is not only a beginner's phase experience, but an experience that will continue with us till the day we die (hopefully). "EVEN UNTO THIS PRESENT HOUR we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place..." (1 Cor. 4:10) Granted, these struggles will accompany growth. (in God's mercy) It encourages me to hear Paul speak these words out of a Spirit of humility: 2 Cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect IN WEAKNESS. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 2 Cor 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. The key for me is to not skip over this part of that verse: "for Christ's sake". "For GODLY SORROW works repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the SORROW OF THE WORLD works death." (2 Cor. 7:10) I pray that Christ will bring you comfort and understanding and patience to endure the uncertain and discouraging days. You are definitely not alone. ~Nicholas |
| "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9) | |
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| ertsky | Feb 28 2008, 03:00 AM Post #5 |
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i want all suffering christians to realise that it is christ in them who is suffering Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME it really is the case that our sufferings are His sufferings Luk 22:28 You however have remained with me amid my trials; Luk 22:29 and I covenant to give you, as my Father has covenanted to give me, a Kingdom-- He has been with us, in us, so long and yet we knew Him not Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. everything looks different in the morning as long as we see our sufferings and His sufferings as separate we are being ripped off! but as the old creation is destroyed so the new creation is revealed, IN US!! f |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Feb 28 2008, 01:24 PM Post #6 |
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Ya & Amen Frank, We (often) do not give God the GLORY for our the (the christ) SUFFERINGS in us . This is (part) of the process. 1 cor 10:10 Neither Murmur Ye, As some of them also MURMURED, and were DESTROYED of the DESTROYER. This is (in me)! The man of sin in me. (WINES) Wine/FORNICATION with IDOLS OF THE HEART (jer 17:9) This is MY CORRUPT FATHERS (12 Or 7 heads of the tribes that MOURN/Under the LAW) that are BAPTISED unto a SCHOOLMASTER (law of sin & DEATH) UNTO (MOSES) Note Pauls admonition To cornith! Who are CALLED ,SANTIFIED,AND CAME BEHIND in NO GIFT! NOTE:1 Cor 10:1 Moreover,BRETHERN (inside me),I would not that you be IGNORANT (my people are DESROYED {who's the desroyer} for lack of knowledge Knowledge is a gift cornith! 1 cor 12:8/1 cor 13:2 it puffs up like leaven) But PAUL LOVES his brethern!(cornith/1 of the /7 churches/these jews)For LOVE is the fullfillment of the LAW OF CHRIST! Back to 1 cor 10:1:How that our (fathers) WERE (under/the law/moses) /under the CLOUD(witness/heb 12:1/heb 11) and all (all & ALL) PASSED (/Passover/baptisesd)through the SEA (sea/babylon) BAPTISED (doctrine of BAPTISMS)heb 6:2/luke 3;3 They were imersed in WATER (johns baptism)walls of water on both sides in the RED sea// a cloud IS WATER ABOVE THEM/ WE passed(passover) through that ALREADY! THE BAPTISM OF JOHN! GO ON TO PERFECTION/heb 6:1 There is ONLY one BAPTISM (I AM that I AM)baptised with! FIRE Luke 3;15-18 We LIVE EVERY WORD! I AM JOHN. (I AM that I AM) BEHEADED for the WORD OF GOD. We must passover john I AM PAUL. (I AM that I AM/ex 3:14) WE must passover paul. I AM MOSES. not eloquent in SPEECH (I AM THAT I AM) Lord send some one else? Shut up jerimah! you are a CHILD I AM that I AM JERemiah (ILIVE BY EVERY WORD) I KILLED all these PROPHETS!(many more) LAST OF all MY GOD's ONLY BELOVED SON But he is RISEN IN ME! col 3:1-4 (in earnest/in part/the fulness is NOT yet) His suffering is GREAT TRIBULATION/REJOICE IN TRIBULATION/great tribulaion/Be Anxious in NOTHING! For so they PERSECUTED the PROPHETS (BEFORE YOU!) This is whom SPEAKS (in part) now in these my LAST (tabernacles) days! Hebrews1:1 No LONGER by the PROPHETS BUT BY THIS GUY (1 NEW MAN) IN ME! HEB 1:2 I GLORY IN HIM ONLY!!! MAN OF SIN YOU ARE DOOMED!! THIS IS THE VISION I SAW by the RIVER (in BABYLON) CHEBAR Ez 1:1-28 FOR WITHOUT VISION THE PEOPLE CAST OFF RESTRAINT! Thank you FRANK (accepted in the BELOVED) timothy, your brother |
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| joyful1 | Feb 28 2008, 08:23 PM Post #7 |
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Mittahaw-- "Frustration?" oh my! That is not EVEN the word for me! lol! But I do know this: The good work that He has begun in you? He will finish! Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Joyce |
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| Little David | Mar 1 2008, 12:02 PM Post #8 |
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Frank, Timothy, and all, Great stuff. All scriptual. All truth. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory. It is a hard teaching that comes only through tribulation. It is through persecution and truth that we will finally be able to live the verse John 8:24 "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Little David |
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| nbogosian | Mar 1 2008, 08:47 PM Post #9 |
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I've been eswording "trial" and "Satan" today and discovered many incredible Scriptures! One particular: 2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ. " 2Co 11:14 And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. " This is going on within me. Christ within me says: Mat 16:23 "Go away behind Me, satan! A snare are you to Me, for you are not disposed to that which is of God, but that which is of men." Thanks guys for the edification that it is Christ doing/living/dying within us, not "me" doing/living/dying....and that my suffering is not MY suffering, but Christ's. |
| "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9) | |
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| ertsky | Mar 4 2008, 03:23 AM Post #10 |
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WOW! some fantastic encouragement there my companions in tribulation we've been lied to, we've been abused, we've been allsorts of things to all sorts of people and yet ... and yet reading your replies i perceive readily that God is working Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. ... Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. ... 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. ... Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. as He is so are we when He appears we shall be like Him Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. for adam i read Christ and for woman i read me as the sufferings abound so the consolation also f |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Mar 4 2008, 11:49 AM Post #11 |
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Yes the sufferings ? FIRST VESSEL (MADE OF CLAY) MARRED IN THE HANDS OF THE POTTER! I AM THAT I AM (first ADAM) NATURAL MAN/ MAN OF SIN/====Son of man This is the BODY (all& ALL) of CHRIST/negative /yet POSITIVE results friom it! ALL THINGS (WORK) FOR GOOD! IT (MUST) BE CRUCIFIED/sacrificed/ Upon the WOOD offering (burnt up) OUTSIDE OF THE GATE/ Sin offering Christ FLESH (US/SIN) WAS (MADE SIN)= (bones of (MY BONES) The WOMAN (US/SIN) PROCEEDS from the MAN (man from heaven) (Christ & the christ) {{{{is}}}} a CREATED VESSEL.Rev 3:14 The BEginning (first FRUIT) (wave sheaf of the Land (body) ( WE) brethern are (ALL & ALL) THESE People,items! Wood offering ,wave sheaf ,(the christ) WOMAN/ADAM We are the BREAD (one BODY/MANY MEMBERS) EATEN! NO EXCEPTIONS But the FIRST bread we eat is ANGELS BREAD.(the WHAT IS IT??/MANNA from our heaven0 MOSES BREAD (WE EAT ALL OF IT FOR 40 YEARS in the WILDERNESS OF SIN/To humble us & PROVE US! due 8:1-3 WE MUST DO THIS FIRST /NO EXCEPTIONS! Who EATS this BREAD (ALL OF IT)? WE ALL DO! WE( live) by this BREAD FROM HEAVEN! WE LIVE BY EVERY (WORD/BREAD) that PROCEEDS from the MOUTH of GOD! The WOMAN/ MADE sin/MADE LEAVEN BREAD/BABYLON ( sin/ proceeds) from the ( FIRST ADAM/ MAN) FROM THE FLESH (bones of HIS BONES) Remember FLESH & BLOOD (CANNOT INHERIT ( his JUBILEE) the KINGDOM OF GOD) Nither does CORRUPTION (flesh ) inherit INCORRUPTION (SPIRIT) READ 1 TIMOTHY 2:11-14 (ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED) Now 2nd ADAM BREAD (from HEAVEN/SPIRITUAL MAN) Proceeded FROM the FATHER (light ) (father of LIGHTS/IN US) PROCEEDS FROM DARKNESS/ But the darkness (man of sin) COMPREHENDS IT NOT (DESTROYED By the (SERPENTS) DESROYER FOR LACK OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD/I NEVER KNEW YOU/WORD OF GOD) Yet this all CHANGES in US (the kingdom Starts out as a MUSTARD (SEED) But GROWS in GRACE & KNOWLEDGE (till) That the Birds (from heaven) Perch from its BRANCHES (who are the branchEs) God plays with LIVIATHAN (in me) like a BIRD/ He will be saved LAST. Because GOD SAVES the LAST (IN US) FIRST/ then the FIRST shall be last (judah) to be saved. BECAUSE HE( IS) THE SAVIOR OF THE WHOLE BODY (nothing shall be lost) for he SHALL (HISS strongs)== (8319/scorn) at him (man of sin/serpent is HIS HEAD/It is CUT OFF?BEHEADED) READ zec 10:8 & Isa 5:25-26 because Of 1 kings 9:7-8/2 chron 29;8/Jer 18;16/jer 19:8/jer25; 9 & 18/ mich6;16 (8322/DIRISION) FOR MY GOD IS WISE AS A SERPENT (WISER by FAR than man of sin) AND HARMLESS as a DOVE// YES HE SHALL (HISS) AT THE SERPANT HE CREATED to(tempt) DO ALL THIS EVIL. So DEATH (POWER OF THE SERPANT) is SWALLOWED UP BY HIS SERPANT (IN TOTAL VICTORY)on a ROD/POLE his false witness (forked /double tounged) janes & jamboree that ROSE UP AGAINST his ROD WHOSOVER LOOK TO HIM (lift up your HEAD/CHRIST) for your SALVATION draweth nigh. SHALL BE HEALED from the serpants/DESTROYERS (BITE/WITHIN) DEATH so AS THE SCRIPTURE HAS SAITH;Ex7:8-12/2 ti 3:1-9/ DEATH WHERE IS THEY STING??? 1 cor 15:54-56 I SHALL HISS AT YOU!! SWALLOW YOU UP! Goodby KORAH & your sons! the strength of SIN is the LAW! You are under my feet! you (paved) work of BLUE SAPHIRIA! I WILL PASSOVER YOU! Ya & AMEN (GLORY TO HIM ALONE) There is NO POWER BUT OF GOD! timothy |
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7:47 PM Jul 10