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| "appointed To Eternal Life" Part 2; "appointed" to disobedience? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 21 2007, 05:07 AM (724 Views) | |
| joyful1 | Dec 21 2007, 05:07 AM Post #1 |
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Hello All!
I Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious; but unto them which be disobedient, THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS DISALLOWED, THE SAME IS MADE THE HEAD OF THE CORNER, 2:8 AND A STONE OF STUMBLING, AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. Would anyone here say that there are 2 groups being discussed above; "you therefore which BELIEVE," and "them which stumble at the word, being disobedient" Would you also say that; the group in verse 8 were "appointed" to be that way? I do not see where this is listed anywhere as a spurious text ...therefore I am assuming that this is yet another place where the temporary state of the person was "pre-determined" according to the will of the Father? At least for this age? Of course in saying that, I feel compelled to also state that the "future" state of each person is ALSO predetermined.....for the Father wills ALL to be SAVED! Comments welcomed! Joyce |
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| ertsky | Dec 31 2007, 01:47 AM Post #2 |
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Hi Joyce i see this also as an inward now or outward later thing for awhile now i've been trying to break the habit of seeing outward only by looking inward first a lot so when i read that verse 1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, i look inward first Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: i see that as Christ in me, the new man and them which be disobedient, as the old carnal frank warts and all so it's a two men IN the field thing ############################## however, if it was not given me to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God as in Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. then the ONLY application i would have is outward and i think i would die with the beast still intact (God forbid!) and it wasn't that long ago all these things were hidden from my eyes, and if i dont keep in close following the Lord my blindness returns i notice ############################### you see what i mean? if you dont apply it inwardly you would be spiritually blind and unable to see or enter the kingdom of God ############################ like here even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. i see there is the error of the Wicked within, the old carnal me the old carnal me stumbles at the word whereunto he/i was appointed but seeing i am sick i will look for my physician and He is not far away from any of us Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. whereas if i only looked outwardly i would see only a non-believer out there and miss the unbeliever within, a much more deadly and powerful enemy. but if someone is unable (carnal) to see the man of sin within whereunto also they were appointed that would be their part in the plan till whatever God has ordained comes next ##################################### wow i am making a mess of this, let me try again as with any verses there are several ways to look 1/ inward application (two men IN the field) (spiritual) 2/ outward application (carnal) 3/ is was and will be (non dispensational) 4/ the interpretation from the other verses (no verse is it's own interpretation) 5/ the second witness (need more than one verse to establish a doctrine) and more so every verse has to be viewed this way, ie. multidimensional but so many people just stick with (or are just stuck with for now) 2/ outward application (carnal) that's it, that's all they've got, that's all that is given them this far, i say this far, and so they miss out, you cant get anywhere in God with only approach 2, approach 2 looking on the outward appearance only is often used to keep people from seeing, at least that was is what i experience they (and i) miss out until God brings them whatever comes next in His plan for them #################################### maybe i should address your questions specifically
yes i would
yes i would
yes and not only so, for to us Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: and 1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
yes Amen ################################### i guess babylonian thinking has predominated to the point where many people think it's all about "burning in hellfire" but really it's all about enduring through to completion in Christ and loving not your own life unto death and inwardly keeping ALL the sayings of the book the bible is not about fire insurance it's about becoming one with the Fire through the Son of the Fire we are put to death in flesh and made alive in the spirit i am the chief of sinners there is a man of sin in me, but he is losing ground rapidly when i look outwardly i may see a murderer when i look inwardly i do see a murderer but praise God i see crucified with Christ he thrashes, he rails, he looks scary and fierce, but he cannot escape the just judgment of God almighty! #################################### 2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: 2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; f |
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| joyful1 | Jan 10 2008, 01:13 PM Post #3 |
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okay, Frank...so basically....the two groups are really 2 men in the field/earth...inside each of us? the two groups are Frank One and Frank Two? Frank One is being saved, Frank Two is being destroyed? did I get it?Joyce |
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| ertsky | Jan 11 2008, 03:31 AM Post #4 |
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Hi Joyce
yeah, that's it Joyce, if God gives it, see it inward, apply it inward, like these Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. full of eyes within God given eyes, where once was only God given blindness God given light, where once was only God given darkness God gives and He takes away i try to leave the outward application to God, He will press it upon me if HE sees fit, otherwise i will continue trying to focus on the inward application. having spent nearly all my life being deceived by the outward it is high time i go on to maturity
we'd better re-reverse the order to keep in line with scripture "frank one" (first adam earthy) is being destroyed and "frank two" (the Lord in spirit) is being established, i'd say it that way to keep in line with the scriptures Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. and this verse 1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. and this verse 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. and this 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. and this Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. when i think of the first frank i think of this verse Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. here is the first adam frank: They shall perish here is the second: but thou remainest here is the first: they all shall wax old as doth a garment; here is the process: And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: here is the second: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. GLORY! Joyce thanks for bearing with me in the posts, may God be merciful to us in all things and give us a constantly renewed vision, even as He gives liberally all things richly to enjoy and share. Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. f |
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| joyful1 | Jan 14 2008, 07:50 PM Post #5 |
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Frank-- okay...so...back to my original question....its NOT 2 groups of people...its the 2 people in me...in everyone....the first man and the last man....the earthy/flesh man...and the heavenly/spirit man. Man! I keep looking outward....and the answer, the most important one, is always inward....the Kingdom of God is within us! Thanks for reminding me! don't worry about going on in your posts, Frank...I"m sure that everyone reading this is happy to get all that you are able to relay when you "get on a roll!" I appreciate the time you put into your answers!Joyce |
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| ertsky | Jan 17 2008, 11:10 AM Post #6 |
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Hi Joyce
yes more and more each day this truth presses upon my perception i used to marvel how i or others could one minute be so nice and the next be vile, utterly vile but now it is no longer quite as mysterious as it used to be the old man is fitted for destruction, a savage dog that must be put down the new man is renewed daily in the image of Him who loves Him i think this is why He says here Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. He says Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. the old frank really does not know what he does, he has no idea how fitted for destruction he is, he actually thinks he is a nice guy, God however has mercifully revealed to me something of just how vile and fitted for destruction the old frank is. now Stephen Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. ########################################## the bible only makes sense this way (two men in the field) for example someone might read a verse that says Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. and say ahhhhhh God loves us then in the same bible read Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. it seems so contradictory looking outwardly, which is it?!?!?!?!? does He love me or hate me?!?!?!?!? BOTH! the old frank forgets God and is torn in pieces while the new frank constantly believes into Him who gave Himself for me both verses apply to me one to the old frank and one to the new frank the old man is death bound the new man cannot be held down forever look Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. make it as secure as you know how ############################################### i think this is one of the outstanding features of Jesus you simply cannot find any fault in Him even when i first read the bible i would somehow sense He was perfect examine everything about Him THERE IS NO FLAW!!!!! NOT EVEN A WHIFF OF A FLAW!!! He smells perfect, He acts perfect, He speaks perfect Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. now He is conceived in a body of sinful flesh and that body is my body Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. #################################################### yeah so i am longing for a better country Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. so these days i have less interest in outward application when someone at work savages me i just fume and rant and then say Father forgive them and me, we know not what we do we know not what evil drives us, we know not what blindness afflicts us the same vile monster in them is in me but in me i trust Christ will destroy that monster i pray i will not foolishly justify myself, i am without excuse but Who is this that sticks closer than a brother, that lays down His life for me f |
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| joyful1 | Jan 17 2008, 07:41 PM Post #7 |
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this is sooo good! you know...it makes sense!I used to think....I think I am good soil...so why doesn't the Word, sown into me, produce good fruit? I couldn't understand WHY I kept getting nothing or far less than the 100 fold....so then I would deem myself bad soil, stoney ground, whatever.... But if you look it like this: 2 men in the field....one is the GOOD SOIL in that field and its a good place for the seed to grow....but in the SAME FIELD is some BAD soil....and that place does NOT produce what the Word was sent to produce.... sow into the flesh....reap fleshly things sow into the spirit....reap spiritual things the idea is to become an overcomer..... Joyce
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| Redlettervoice | Jan 23 2008, 05:40 PM Post #8 |
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Hello, I used to read a JOYCE on Sigler's Bd., is this the one and same? Well, I am NEW here. This is my first post, but this topic got my attention, and I wanted to say a word or two. I can see it as being both in you, but I can also see it another way as far as "people" being appointed thereunto. I remember a friend of mine one time asking the Lord about her husband, and she said there she was in places she didn't want to be, etc. and she said the Lord told her, her husband was her salvation. Like when her love was as His was for her husband, she would have grown to know the real Love of God. There is a purpose in all lives........ Jesus had to see us "all" in the same light when He went to Calvary. |
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| ertsky | Jan 24 2008, 02:28 AM Post #9 |
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Hi Red
i don't think anyone is denying there is an outward application it's just that spiritually if you cant see it and apply it within it isn't doing you much good. the letter kills.
i dunno, it sounds spiritual, but is it scriptural? God rebukes and chastens those He loves, when you feel apathy towards someone that is a sign that you have no concern toward them, when they cease to frustrate you it means you have ceased to care. i'm glad God disciplines me, it shows me He still cares and is working in me. i dont think our love will ever be "as His" it IS His love is of God.
i agree
i know He is the propitiation for all, the Saviour of all mankind. in my life though He has dealt with me in an entirely different way than He deals with many many others i have observed. Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons [and daughters]. Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. there is a difference Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. Deu 33:16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren. f |
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| joyful1 | Jan 24 2008, 07:20 AM Post #10 |
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Frank-- THat verse in Deuteronmy that you quoted: 33:16....that really says it all! Never paid attention to that one before...interesting! Hello-- Redlettervoice...no, sorry I've never even heard of "Sigler's Bd." --what is it? Joyce
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| Redlettervoice | Jan 25 2008, 06:34 AM Post #11 |
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Hey Joyce, Gary Sigler is the man who heads up this link on the net. He also holds meetings. This link is a "group" of ministers in the Kingdom Message and most of them "know" one another, tho they may not exactly believe alike. I came to the compter first about ten years ago and found that Bro. Sigler then had his own forum, but not now. There's lots of reading on that site. One place leads to another type of thing. |
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| joyful1 | Feb 3 2008, 02:37 PM Post #12 |
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I checked out the webpage, Redlettervoice, and they seem like very nice people. Isnt' it amazing how God is drawing all kinds of people in all kinds of ways out of Babylon? Perhaps some of the others here that are more knowledgable than me could point you to a couple of doctrinal differences between Eby and Mike Vinson. I look forward to your posts.....see you around! Joyce
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| Steven Crook | Feb 18 2008, 10:05 AM Post #13 |
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Actually, there are quite a few differences in what Eby teaches and what the scriptures teach. If anyone is interested, maybe we can start a topic for that particular discussion? Your brother in Christ |
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| joyful1 | Feb 18 2008, 11:01 PM Post #14 |
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that sounds like a great idea, Steven! Why don't you start?Joyce |
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okay, Frank...so basically....
did I get it?
this is sooo good! you know...it makes sense!
7:47 PM Jul 10