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| Thoughts On The Wrath Of God; orge | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 26 2007, 10:20 PM (423 Views) | |
| ertsky | Dec 26 2007, 10:20 PM Post #1 |
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i was thinking on God's wrath (orge) this verse spoke volumes to me Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. if i repair the translation a little He that believes and keeps on believing into the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. there are "two people" in that verse but they are both me He that believes into the Son (Christ in me/new me) and he that believes not (carnal man/old me) i can see both those guys in me, He that believes into the Son, that would be Christ in me he that believes not, that would be the carnal man, the old frank of sin and death so i see the wrath of God abides (remains) on the old frank of sin and death, it remains on him i suppose until there is nothing of him left for the wrath to remain on, which would be when i finally physically die and put off this body of sin and death and put on a new body. meanwhile everytime the old frank gets a bit of a move on, BANG! the wrath of God remains on him and he is receiving judgement and i am chastened so i learn obedience ########################## in "revelation" we read Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: there i see the wrath of God remaining on him that believes not (the old me) the new me must increase the old me must decrease the wrath of God remaining on him/old me it's the plan ############################## well no doubt someone can say it clearer, but do you get what i'm saying? does it ring true? f |
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| lrolson | Dec 27 2007, 06:41 AM Post #2 |
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Frank That is exactly as I see it too! Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. He beareth not the sword in vain. He execte's wrath on him (me) that doeth evil. Wrath is fiery! It burns out the evil within. Burns out the lead, tin, iron, and copper. Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: I am the child that is produced (the first). Christ (within) (the last) is the child that is being produced. In which there is (no wrath). Rick |
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| ertsky | Dec 28 2007, 10:14 AM Post #3 |
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Thanks Rick that scripture you quoted really helped a lot Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: straight away i was reminded of Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. so i could see that the man of sin in the temple (the old me) is a whoremonger an unclean person, a covetous man, an idolater, and he has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God for 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: which lead me to Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? which reminded me of 1Pe 3:13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; so once again i could see old man and new man there is no good news for the old man i was thinking the old man is the generation of wrath so i need to be separate from him Jer 7:29 Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the LORD hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath. Jer 7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. mentioned here Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. so i say Gal 6:14 But may it never be for me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. more and more i think, thank God for chastening grace f |
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| willieH | Dec 28 2007, 11:12 PM Post #4 |
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willieH: Hi Ertsky... Nice OP, ...well said! Insightful! And very CLEAR! Your modesty is refreshing... ![]() This Scripture speaks of the WRATH to be PRESENT, not future... Rom 1:18 For the WRATH of GOD ...IS... revealed [not will be, as in afterlife punishment] from Heaven against ...ALL... ungodliness and unrighteousness OF MEN [not the men themselves, but their deeds] who hold the Truth [CHRIST] in unrighteousness ...willieH
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| ertsky | Dec 30 2007, 09:05 PM Post #5 |
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Hi Willie (welcome to the board) that's a great verse you posted Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; i think inward now or outward later i see that as God's wrath now upon the old carnal me who tries to suppress the Truth in unrighteousness and yes, revealed now is this wrath of God upon the old me Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? but i think ALL men will in their appointed time know of this wrath of God against ALL carnality 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: inward now or outward later i say upon ALL against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men i see it is either IN us NOW or upon us later if one loves not ones own life now unto death then later the second death holds no fear but if it is not given to one to overcome their old self in this present life then later will be a reckoning a reckoning i say now or later depending on the election of God Rom 9:16 So, then, it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of the One showing mercy, of God. i see no partiality Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. we see something of it here in Joseph's dealing with his brothers Gen 42:6 And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth. Gen 42:7 And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, Whence come ye? And they said, From the land of Canaan to buy food. Gen 42:8 And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him. Gen 42:9 And Joseph remembered the dreams which he dreamed of them, and said unto them, Ye are spies; to see the nakedness of the land ye are come. Gen 42:10 And they said unto him, Nay, my lord, but to buy food are thy servants come. Gen 42:11 We are all one man's sons; we are true men, thy servants are no spies. Gen 42:12 And he said unto them, Nay, but to see the nakedness of the land ye are come. Gen 42:13 And they said, Thy servants are twelve brethren, the sons of one man in the land of Canaan; and, behold, the youngest is this day with our father, and one is not. Gen 42:14 And Joseph said unto them, That is it that I spake unto you, saying, Ye are spies: Gen 42:15 Hereby ye shall be proved: By the life of Pharaoh ye shall not go forth hence, except your youngest brother come hither. i am persuaded God is not going to torture anyone in literal fire forever and ever but i think concerning sin in the flesh there is a day of reckoning, sore reckoning, which day is now for those to whom it is given. but to BOTH Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. to the jew first (now inwardly) Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; AND to the gentile (later outwardly) Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: inwardly now or outwardly later Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. i know there is no mythical burning in literal fire like some naive medieval parody but there is an holy God to be reckoned with who is not mocked Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. God be merciful to me a sinner. f |
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| ertsky | Dec 30 2007, 10:16 PM Post #6 |
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as often happens i had to "wrestle with the angel" meditate on it internally somewhat and then God gave a clearer more succinct understanding of what i was wrestling to say but could not clearly express. 1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. the words do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. that is the short and efficient version i am trying to keep a watchful eye within just like these guys Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. they were full of eyes within: 1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. and those without God judgeth 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. for those given eyes within, judgment is now those to whom it is not given to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God will have to learn about these things later Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. but i understand so little and am not nearly as learned as i will be i feel like a dunce in the class sometimes, thats good when it happens (not highminded) but i must press on and see what God has in mind Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. yes the only person i really want to judge right now is myself f |
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| ertsky | Dec 31 2007, 12:44 AM Post #7 |
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after thoughts after thoughts, thank God for after thoughts when i wrote
i forgot to mention and testing the spirits (judging doctrines, messages etc) as in 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. and 1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. and Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. and Mat 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ! Or, Here! Do not believe. Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Mat 24:25 Behold, I tell you beforehand. and even in this i must look inward as well Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. it all reminds me of Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. not a carnal but a spiritual judgment and Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. and 2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. ah that will be a great day, better press on f |
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