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| The "curse" of Jotham | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 2 2008, 09:17 AM (1,559 Views) | |
| Redlettervoice | Jul 2 2008, 09:17 AM Post #1 |
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I have just noticed something. Jotham was standing on the Mt. of "Gerazim" when he spoke about the bramble bush and all, and then "he" fled ..........sounds to me like he was being still and letting God do things, even tho God allowed what he said to bring in a "lying" spirit. Is this a truth similar to the man who listened to a "lying spirit' even after God had told him NOT to go back the way he came? Gerazim was the mount the six of twelve tribes were supposed to stand on for "blessing." So Jotham was not "cursing" them, even tho it says God used a "lying spirit." Again it reminds me of the time when Ahab was caught with God using a "lying spirit." When people are not sincere, the time comes I guess when God even uses the "lying" "spirit" for it seems they do not believe or trust in God, but in their own understanding. The thing I noticed about all this is that part about not being sincere. What do you think? I know there are some deep students of the Word here, so maybe you can help me understand this. |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Jul 5 2008, 03:02 PM Post #2 |
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Greetings Red letter VOICE, This passage of scripture is amazing. ARE NOT ALL OF THEM? First of all? Who (WAS) Jotham,what does his NAME mean? What did he say to his 70 brothers?Why was one brother,NOT of his flesh,AGAINST HIM? What did the PARABLE/RIDDLE MEAN?Where was it GIVEN? To whom & WHY? What does that have to do with the price of tea in china? Next DO WE LIVE BY EVERY WORD?(NOW) Or is this a history lesson?What is LEFT BEHIND(shadow of things to come)? or (IS) this a FUTURE (ADVENT)Lesson? (yet to be LIVED?) Or is it all THREE?(process) first things first (beginning) Who (was) Jotham? Jdg 9:5 And he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, (70) upon one stone: notwithstanding yet Jotham the youngest son of Jerubbaal was left; for he hid himself. Note this HIDDEN son.THE YOUNGEST of Jerub(BAAL) Who (WAS) JERUB (BAAL)??Means (LET BAAL PLEAD) WHO (WAS) he? Jdg 6:32 Therefore on that day he called him Jerubbaal, saying, Let Baal plead against him, because he hath thrown down his altar. Jdg 7:1 Then Jerubbaal, who is Gideon? IT IS GIDION (5TH/Chasening /judge/a thresher of WHEAT) MEANS HE THAT CUTS DOWN TREES (groves of BAAL) Jotham means =(Yehovah (iS) PERFECT)HE (WAS) LEFT/ HE HID HIMSELF FROM (ABIMELECH) BASTARD SON of a SHECHEMITE (CONCUBINE/WIFE)heb 12:8/he who slew the 70 sons of jerubaal/(GIDION) Sanhiedren is 72 =9=Judgement NOT 70!That is NOT complete Only in its TIME=7 = 2 (WITNESS)=72==9=JUDGEMENT /number a six==6 TURNED UPSIDE DOWN/TURNED RIGHTSIDE UP=9 For I AM THAT I AM=(as he is so are WE(BODY) in this WORLD/babylon) will turn the WORLD ON ITS HEAD (christ) though it was turned upside DOWN by him who MADE it 2Ki 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, briI am [/bringing] such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle. 2Ki 21:13 And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet (LINE OF JUDGEMENT)of the house of Ahab(fathers brother): and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down. =6 to a 9 Psa 146:9 The LORD preserveth the strangers; he relieveth the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turneth upside down. Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? Act 17:6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These (paul & others of the body)that have turned the world upside down are come hither also; I will continue this at a (running)pace (God willing)concerning the parable of the trees from jotham (judges 9) Concerning his half brother/abimelech & the 70 trees (his first fathers children) Though he was the rightful (legetimate son of Gidion) ruler of the people & so was Gidion his father (I WILL NOT RULE YOU/THE LORD SHALL) Jdg 8:22 Then the men of Israel said unto Gideon, Rule thou over us, both thou, and thy son, and thy son's son also: for thou hast delivered us from the hand of Midian. Jdg 8:23 And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you:(Jotham) the LORD shall rule over you. We are not able to rule at the time of judges( but we are somewhat able to discern/judge)THE LORD IS RULER because Jotham (GOD is PERFECT) Blessed be the KING & judge ,prophet,priest of ISREAL/it is beautiful in its TIME! I AM THAT I AM (5 words)=abimelech/jerubbal/GIDION/JOtham/TREES (5 words) blessed is the word of GOD/Who comes in his NAME/Who turns the wicked on his head (upside down) perhaps i could go a little more to explain the parable? of the bramble (thistle) Jdg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us. timothy |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Jul 7 2008, 11:58 AM Post #3 |
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Back to the grind stone. Jdg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble,(thisle ) Come thou, and reign over us. Rule over the trees (collectively) The PARABLE of jotham (yahovah is PERFECT) Jdg 9:1 And Abimelech the son of Jerubbaal went to Shechem unto his mother's brethren, and communed with them, and with all the family of the house of his mother's father, saying, Abimelech was not the rightful Heir of GIDION/Jotham (was) (judges 8;22) Notice this (was) his MOTHERS Brethern (mother's House as opposed to his FATHERS House) Note; shechem was the PLACE of annointing KINGS;The place of Jacobs well.(in rebellion) 1 kings 12:1/1 kings 12:20/1 kings 12:25-33/Jn 4:1-44 Notice verse 44 JESUS WAS NOT HONOURED IN JERUSALEM/ but IN SAMARIA/as a prophet & messiah/While WATER (LIVING WATER) was draw from the wells (many wells but there is only one well/BELLY)of salvation Isa 12 from 1 body 12(fathers) is from 1 (the FATHER)a process of 3 (NOT A TRINITY) This took place at his mothers HOUSE as opposed to his (FATHERS ) house. (THE TEMPLE AT JERUSALEM/not made with HANDS/the MOTHER OF US ALL) for there is only one BODY we come from =(CHRIST) Ya he (lowly/humbly)rode in on a donkey/To be a king to them/But who called for his blood?(I DID)For the BLOOD OF A LAMB/ to take away my sin Where was Shechem?/ in between/BELOW mt Gerizem (MEANS CUTTERS/Due 11:29/BLESSING/jn 4:20/Judges 9:7) & mt E'BAL (curse/ law of sin & death) BLESS & CURSE NOT (new wine) Yet we LIVE the OLD (perferred )wine also (the BOOK OF THE LAW)= CURSED be he that hang on a TREE/crucified That the scripture be fullfilled. (in me/the CHRIST's christ) Jos 8:28 And Joshua(christ in me) burnt Ai, and made it a heap forever, even a desolation unto this day. Jos 8:29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree (man of sin/flesh of christ /me)until eventide: and as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his carcass down from the tree, and cast it at the entering of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that remaineth unto this day. Jos 8:30 Then Joshua (christ within)built an altar unto the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal, Jos 8:31 As Moses the servant of the Lord commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit(INHERIDENCE) through faith. FAITH (PROMISE/holy spirit/earnest) IS THE SUBSTANCE HOPE FOR (YET NOT SEEN/FULLNESS)/IT IS NOT THE LAW (the law is not of faith) Faith IS a GIFT/it is not of works (earned) IT IS THE FAITH OF CHRIST/IT IS NOT FROM US YET the man that doeth them (works of the law) SHALL LIVE IN THEM THEY ARE MANIFEST (we live every WORD)HERICES/ the TARES (LAW)GROW UP WITH THE WHEAT(LAW of the spirit OF LIFE) they are (lawlessness is us)BURNED FIRST These are the WORKS (CURSES of the law) Barrenness of real fruit.(tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good & evil)It has PRODUCE /all the sin of the WORLD REVEALED.IT has CORRUPT FRUIT FROM THE SERPANT (IN IT) From its BELLY (destruction) Root/pit in the GROUND They are THESE Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. the kingdom of GOD is an IHERIDENCE (fullness) yet we have a PROMISE ===earnest of it/(faith of a mustard SEED/CHRIST) A tree is KNOWN BY ITS FRUIT(tree of LIFE) (PROMISE) (SEED) (GROWING) (IN CHRIST) WE ARE ALL TREES! gen 1;11/ez 31/mt 7;17/mt 3;10 TILL (process)WE BECOME 1 WHOLESOME TREE OF LIFE IN OUR TOUNGE i know of only one good tree If this tree (corrupt tree) // is growing/And it will/(pharisee WITHIN) it will BE CUT DOWN BY GIDION (cutter of trees in the GROVES) Yes We hid amoung the TREES. in the garden of GOD (WITHIN) Gen 3:8 FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD THE AXE is LAID AT THE ROOT OF THIS TREE (man of sin) THE AX MAN IS CHRIST (WITHIN) Surely saul / our FIRST KING DAN 4:8-14/will be FOUND OUT (sin)And CUT DOWN/then a new Tounge tree PLANTED & WATERED OUT OF IT SHALL COME LIFE! All these things MUST BE! GLORY TO GOD ALONE!Blessed be THE FATHER OF MY LORD! Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (christ in you) Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (IT IS HERE) Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit (ONLY GOD IS GOOD)is hewn down, and cast into the fire.(THE WORD OF GOD) If we perferred Jn 1:27not to live this (WORD/book) now? our name is blotted out.But we will be FOUND OUT (later/hidden amoung the trees) (WILL BE).I perfer NOW (tree of life)Verses LATER (whitethrone) Flesh (tree being cut down/its head cut off)being burnt up (that the spirit may be SAVED) though I live BOTH NOW.LIVE BY EVERY WORD/DON"T PICK & CHOOSE the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD & EVIL(ONLY) (though you surly will LIVE IT) (IT IS NOT GOOD FOR FOOD of the SPIRIT) only for the FLESH (IT IS CORRUPTION).YET IT MUST BE EATEN UP cast in the LAKE (ELECT) (BODY OF CHRIST) NOW This parable is vast (but i must finish it/how i'm in a straight till it be done) please be patient with me. And i will show (by GOD's WORD) that we will not have jotham rule but the bramble (FIRST) Thistle.God chose our delusions but it is a little (paul ) tree. AT FIRST an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lifted up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. Jos 8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel. Jos 8:33 And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. Jos 8:34 And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. Jos 8:35 There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them. Here it is> THIS BOOK OF THE LAW (WITNESS AGAINST ME) (yet GOD caused it) Jdg 9:2 Speak, I pray you, in the ears of all the men of Shechem, Whether is better for you, either that all the sons of Jerubbaal, which are threescore and ten persons, reign over you, or that one reign over you? remember also that I am your bone and your flesh. Jdg 9:3 And his mother's brethren spoke of him in the ears of all the men of Shechem all these words: and their hearts inclined to follow Abimelech; for they said, He is our brother. Jdg 9:4 And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baal-berith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him. Jdg 9:5 And he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, upon one stone: notwithstanding yet Jotham the youngest son of Jerubbaal was left; for he hid himself. Jdg 9:6 And all the men of Shechem gathered together, and all the house of Millo, and went, and made Abimelech king, by the plain of the pillar that was in Shechem. Jdg 9:7 And when they told it to Jotham, he went and stood in the top of mount Gerizim, and lifted up his voice, and cried, and said unto them, Hearken unto me, ye men of Shechem, that God may hearken unto you. Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us. Jdg 9:9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honor God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? Jdg 9:10 And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, and reign over us. Jdg 9:11 But the fig tree said unto them, Should I forsake my sweetness, and my good fruit, and go to be promoted over the trees? Jdg 9:12 Then said the trees unto the vine, Come thou, and reign over us. Jdg 9:13 And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? Jdg 9:14 Then said all the trees unto the bramble, Come thou, and reign over us. Jdg 9:15 And the bramble said unto the trees, If in truth ye anoint me king over you, then come and put your trust in my shadow: and if not, let fire come out of the bramble, and devour the cedars of Lebanon. Jdg 9:16 Now therefore, if ye have done truly and sincerely, in that ye have made Abimelech king, and if ye have dealt well with Jerubbaal and his house, and have done unto him according to the deserving of his hands; Jdg 9:17 (For my father fought for you, and adventured his life far, and delivered you out of the hand of Midian: Jdg 9:18 And ye are risen up against my father's house this day, and have slain his sons, threescore and ten persons, upon one stone, and have made Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the men of Shechem, because he is your brother;) Jdg 9:19 If ye then have dealt truly and sincerely with Jerubbaal and with his house this day, then rejoice ye in Abimelech, and let him also rejoice in you: Jdg 9:20 But if not, let fire come out from Abimelech, and devour the men of Shechem, and the house of Millo; and let fire come out from the men of Shechem, and from the house of Millo, and devour Abimelech. Jdg 9:21 And Jotham ran away, and fled, and went to Beer, and dwelt there, for fear of Abimelech his brother. timothy |
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| Timothy Vaughan | Jul 11 2008, 11:20 AM Post #4 |
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Continue, Just Who (is) this ABIMELECH (within me)?Do we Live by EVERY WORD???? Is he revealed to us?? First the negative? DARKNESS? Jdg 9:1 And Abimelech the son of Jerubbaal (which is GIDION/5th chasening judge)went to Shechem unto his mother's brethren, and communed with them, and with all the family of the house of his mother's father, saying, First What does his NAME( abimelech mean)?(melech is FATHER) several Philistine KINGS& LORDS Had this name. It was a title Like Pharaoh was to the egyptians & ceasar was amoung the romans. Psa 34:1 A Psalm of David, when he changed his behavior (fiegned madness) before Abimelech;(LORD & KING OF THE PHILISTINES )who drove him away, and he departed. I will bless the LORD at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth. Who is called (draged) Achish== 1Sa 21:10 And David arose, and fled that day for fear of Saul, and went to Achish =(ABIMELECH)the king of Gath. 1Sa 21:11 And the servants of Achish said unto him, Is not this David the king of the land? did they not sing one to another of him in dances, saying, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands? 1Sa 21:12 And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. 1Sa 21:13 And he changed his behavior before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard. 1Sa 21:14 Then said Achish unto his servants, Lo, ye see the man is mad:(iam a lunitic/MOONSTRUCK) wherefore then have ye brought him to me? 1Sa 21:15 Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this fellow to play the mad man (wild man ISHMEAL) in my presence? shall this fellow come into my house? THERE IS NO FEAR IN LOVE (command) The FEAR OF THE LORD is ONLY the BEGINNING OF CHRIST. IT IS CLEAN. Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. HE IS WISDOM= THE BeGINNING (CHIEF CORNERSTONE)Whom shall we FEAR? GOD'S WORD(CHRIST WITHIN/the image of the ONE TRUE GOD) ONLY!! This image (temple ) is BUIlT every day(judgement is NOW) by the LINE (MEASURE/judgement) of GOD! IT MUST BE TRUE & FAITHFUL.But the MAN (temple) of sin is DESTROYED DAILY.It is CUT DOWN & BURNED in the 5th MOON.This is the 10 th day of the 5th moon. IT IS JERUSALEM BELOW,Devilish(TODAY) (EVEN UNTO THIS DAY/I ESTEEM ALL DAYS ALIKE)=james 4:15 it is the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD & EVil (it MUST BE CUT DOWN & BURNED TO POWDER.It must be Planted with christ (the TREE OF LIFE) A despised BRANCH, A tender loving PLANT ,A tree by the rivers SIDE,WHICH IN SEASONYields its FRUIT (from the tree) GREEN its LEAVES abide Ps 1 FOR the HEALING OF THE NATION (ONE NATION UNDER GOD?) WHO IS ABIMELCH The INIQUITY OF THE GENTILES is FULL/BURN THE CITY (the WOOD) of the tree! It is the moon of the Golden CALF (5th chastening)(moonstruck) (lunicy) (Keep the attonement on the 10th day) REBUILD IN THE 5th MOON This is the 10th DAY OF the 5th moon of the GOLDEN CALF! NOTHING SEEMS TO CHANGE? HER IT IS. I FASHIONED IT.With GOLDEN EAR RINGS Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD. TOMMORROW IS TODAY TO ME So WAS yesterday! It is a destruction & rebuilding PROJECT! daily .Do not faint in the DAY of adversity! The LORD IS NOT TIRED OR WEARY IN WELL DOING! HE works with a SWORD IN HiS HAND. He begins on the first day of the 5 th moon (24/7)EVERYDAY NOTHING CAN PREVENT HIS GLORIOUS WORKS/HE IS THE LORD OF THE PHILISTINES. He is Abimelech (melch) is my FATHER. Yes my first father sinned, HIS HEAD WAS CRUSHED in the PLACE CALLED THE SKULL.By the jaw bone of an ass. A WOMAN with 7 locks of HAIR. My second FATHER NEVER SINNED. HE just DID'nt.He just diD NOT.HE just did not bow to a woman. NO he STOOD LIKE A MAN He is KING of JEBUS (jebusites)/jerusalem heb7:15-16 BLESSED BE THE GOD & FATHER OF MY LORD (JESUS THE CHRIST) The darkness &the LIGHT they are the SAME to him that LIVES in ME/he is my HIGH PRIEST & KING/ He is my husbandMAN FATHER KNOWS BEST!(my 2nd one) HE COMES (woman)IN HIS NAME.(a woman takes the NAME of her husband)BLESSED BE HIS NAME! JERUSALEM CITY OF THE KING WHOSE builder AN MAKER IS GOD/GLORIOUS THINGS OF THEE ARE SPOKEN! YOU ARE COME TO MT ZION! You have come to the Great ephesus (temple ) not made with hands,To the mother of us all, to the GOD of the BREASTS who suckles her beloved children.Who weans them from milk and feeds them with oxen.Whom wipes away every tear and puts them in a bottle.Whom is silent as a lamb to the slaughter & feeds with lions who eat straw like an OX. Whom is clothed with a rainbow And is a watered garden. O the fatherless & the widow come And be FEd & never suffer want.for my ears are open to your cry, o jerusalem ,jerusalem come to me all that hunger And thirst, rest in the shadow of my tree. for my leaves never fail,neither are they barren. timothy |
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7:47 PM Jul 10