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| God hath "not" appointed "us" to wrath; who does and who does not receive wrath? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 5 2008, 06:36 PM (1,157 Views) | |
| lrolson | Aug 5 2008, 06:36 PM Post #1 |
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Do Gods elect receive Wrath? 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the us in the above verse? Throughout the whole word of God there are two. The first and the last. The called and the chosen. Jacob and Esau. There are two in the field, one is taken, the other is left. The old man and the new man. Saul and Paul. Gentile and Jew. Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. The old man, Adam, Esau, Saul, and so on are the firstborn. The child of the devil. Children of wrath. Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. We must see ourselves as, Adam, Esau, Saul, and so on are the firstborn. The child of the devil. Children of wrath. So again, who is the us in 1 Thess 5:9? It is the new man! The old receives wrath. The old does not receive forgiveness! He must die. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; So all have earned the death penalty and it must be paid. Jesus Himself was the first begotten son of God. He had to die. God did not spare His only begotten son. Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? He will not spare us. Once again, who is the us of 1Thess 5:9? 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, The new man that is being formed is Christ. God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation. Who obtains salvation? Is it the old man? The old man has to die. The old man is not forgiven! The old man receives the wrath! Again, who obtains salvation and how? Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (one) new man, so making peace; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: There is the answer to those who can receive it. Rick Edited by lrolson, Aug 5 2008, 06:38 PM.
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| nbogosian | Aug 6 2008, 08:52 AM Post #2 |
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thanks for this Rick |
| "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." (2 Cor. 12:9) | |
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| lrolson | Aug 9 2008, 07:37 PM Post #3 |
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I would like to add something very important to the understanding Of who receives wrath. 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Who is the we in the above verse? Think long and hard!!! Did Paul think he was going to be alive at the second coming? Remember this is inspired scripture. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep. Again WHO is the we which are alive and remain? 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep. We will not precede them which are asleep. Read it again straight through. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Now let me explain. Remember there are always two. The old man and the new man. So the we of verse 15 which are alive and remain is the new man. Who is the them that we will not precede? It is those that are asleep, (have died) the old man. And those that had already gone through the process, the "was" of is was and will be. And the them of verse 17 are those that had already gone through the process and died. And were apart of that great cloud of witnesses. Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Rick Edited by lrolson, Aug 9 2008, 07:42 PM.
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| bobf | Aug 12 2008, 11:37 AM Post #4 |
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Here it is again.... children of wrath children of God Isaiah 65:11 But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. 12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not. 13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: 14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: 16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. A clue for me to see this was: The servants only "drink", "rejoice", and "sing for joy" and yet it mentions their "former troubles". I wasn't sure about "he who blesseth himself in the earth" and "he that sweareth in the earth". Bob |
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| Sandi | Sep 11 2008, 12:45 PM Post #5 |
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Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. |
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