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| Can I shoot a 12 year old; the first real trouble with puberty. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 29 2006, 08:19 AM (704 Views) | |
| rikal | Jan 29 2006, 08:19 AM Post #1 |
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Rebbetzin
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I am talking here to the older moms. I've already done tipeshesreh 4 times and lived throught it! All of a sudden I have one who is finishing me. We just moved our 12 this year to a new school. We felt it was important to give him a lot of support because its difficult to change schools at this age. We really had no choice. We want to move two other kids and we are trying to figure out how. He is living with my daughter and her family - dh and Yishai 9 mos. We visit him twice a week. We bought him a cellphone and nice bed. When we come we take him out for pizza, check his clothes to see if he needs anything and put money on the grocery bill. He has more than most kids his age, including his brothers. The school lets him leave early to adjust and has been very tolerant of his lateness and absences. The problem is that he himself is fighting adjustment claiming that we will give up and put him back or the school will get fed up and boot him out. He was very spoiled by one of his previous teachers, as he was the pet. Until we moved him he went to this teacher instead of his own or the principle if he had a problem. Everytime something bothers him its an excuse to go late or not at all. He fought with my sil, I'm not going. I'm coming home. He tore the sleeve of his coat on the seam - I'm not going. You can't come on the regular day? I'm not going to school. His sister wouldn't buy him potato chips right after I bought him pizza and ice cream. The next day he left 2 hours late and dd was crying. She is preg and doesn't need his crap and I told him as much. Right now I see his name on my cell and hand it to dh. He is sick of it and just tells him to stop. Up until now he is somewhat frightened of dh and gives him less lip. We went to a rav, one who specializes in chinuch not our regular rav, asking for advice on helping him to adjust and correcting his spoiled behaviour. This rav saw fit to pasken that he can return to his old school. This w/o asking why we moved him or giving us a chance to explain that good teachers got burned out and are knocking kids into the walls. He doesn't mind going back because he isn't afraid it will happen to him because he is "protected" by that teacher. he just laughs when other kids get it - a mida I want uprouted. When he goes to school he does very well, we get citations on his work. He has begun to stand out here also and the mefakeach loves him. He also has made friends with a good boy. DD wants him to stay because she cares for her younger siblings very much. Is it just a matter of time? |
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| U Tarzan Me Jane | Jan 29 2006, 10:52 AM Post #2 |
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Rebbetzin
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Acting out is a sign of pure unhappieness. I know because I have done it myself. Your son may be homesick. He may also feel rejected, 12 year olds are not adults, they are still children and they act accordingly. I understand the need to move him out of a bad place, but he might see it as you throwing him out, or getting rid of him. Its not the reality, but as a 12 year old, you sometimes percieve things differently than the adults around you. *** you can shoot him, but you may end up in prison for it! that was the only reason I came out of my teen years alive, my mom didn't like the idea of prison. *** Also the children that give you the hardest time, tend to be the ones that will give you the most nachat at the end! Hang in there! :hugs |
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| chavamom | Jan 29 2006, 02:00 PM Post #3 |
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Bala Buste
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I can comiserate with you, but don't have much to offer in terms of help. I have a 12 year-old AND 13 year-old boys. |
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| CravingRavioli | Jan 29 2006, 04:05 PM Post #4 |
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aishes chayil
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I have teenage kids also, so I know how they can push your buttons. On the one hand, he sounds homesick, but on the other hand, he seems to have a lot going for him in the new school. IYH he'll adjust and everything will settle down. I think it's great that your older DD is so involved w/the younger siblings. I hope that IYH my older ones will be like that, too. Tzippi |
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| chavamom | Jan 29 2006, 07:12 PM Post #5 |
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Bala Buste
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BTW - haven't heard " tipeshesreh" in a long, long time. I've been in the US for the past 7 years. I got a particular laugh out of that one, esp. since the girls (mostly the girls who used to hang out at my house as I was a young mother and they were trying to escape their 'overbearing' parents) I used to refer to 'tipeshesreh' are now mothers themselves - some a number of times over! |
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| rikal | Jan 30 2006, 01:43 AM Post #6 |
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Rebbetzin
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My DD was second in command for the five years I was a single parent. She fed, changed and played with her 3 bros from my first marriage. As you see, she also is very concerned for her younger brothers from my second marriage. |
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| CravingRavioli | Jan 30 2006, 11:50 AM Post #7 |
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aishes chayil
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okay, I just figured out what "tipeshesreh" means. It didn't make any sense when i read it, but when I said it out loud I started laughing. :ha |
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| FlowerGirl | Feb 6 2006, 11:11 AM Post #8 |
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Rebbetzin
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how is it going, rikal? |
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| rikal | Feb 8 2006, 06:25 PM Post #9 |
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Rebbetzin
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We have him home since Shabbos. He skipped school last week and dh was going to go in with him on Sun. but he was sick. They are going b'ezrat HaShem this coming Sunday. The issue is even more an issue for dh. He agrees that he should change but has 2 problems from his background that the rav we went to is going to deal with. I spoke to the rav today and it seems that both dh and my son left out the parts of the discussion that were not comfortable for them. DH is anti rules or limits. My mil is a drill seargent plugged in. She often says children don't know how to make decisions. He hated never choosing his clothes, food or anything else. I am sure he lived with his ex only 6 mos because he said his mother came to for the wedding and said to him, "Where did you find her?!" She is somewhat aloof from me right now because I explained as politely as possible that at the age of 46 we also know how to make decisions. The second is a problem I've asked help for in communities, from rabbonim and even on forums. Maybe somebody here? My dh is an EST graduate. We have had whopper fights because I am not at all interested and heard from someone that it is like a cult. Then one day something upset me and I came to the web and Googled EST. I got a forum of former members laughing at their former jargon with quotes. They listed all the things dh says that really light my fuse because they are all ways of denying responsibility and accusing the other while pretended to be open minded. If you bring facts as proof then "That's YOUR perception". The clincher was the section on the effect on relationships. It said there that the problem was that they promise to give you the tools to control your life. Their secret is - if you can't control it then "It doesn't work for me". Cut it off and you will again be in control. If your other half does not wish to be controlled - let them go. I have search far and wide for someone with both the understanding of what it is and the Torah knowledge to be trusted to not only open the wound and clean it but to close it properly. This rav-educator wants to take it on. He says our son is ambivalent because his Abba is so confused. |
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| zuncompany | Feb 8 2006, 06:31 PM Post #10 |
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Whats EST? All I could think of was eastern standard time. |
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| FlowerGirl | Feb 8 2006, 07:56 PM Post #11 |
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Rebbetzin
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wow, what a story! I really hope that Rav will help you out. I have friends w/ marriage issues and their dd's behaviour directly reflects their relationship. |
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| rikal | Feb 9 2006, 12:44 AM Post #12 |
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Rebbetzin
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Today the name changed to the Forum and I heard its been toned down. Cases were brought against them. The founder is said to be in hiding over tax evasion issues. They claim to be a self empowerment seminar but in their original form they plainly stated that they worked by taking your brain apart and putting it back together in a different way. In those days after a 3 day seminar you graduated by inviting all your friends to a graduation and pressuring them to join. It used heavy duty psychological tactics to change the way you use language and relate to what you see in the world. Of course, good students became "trainers" and solicitors to bring more people in. In their new site they list major corporations that use them to train executives. On that forum I read testimonies of how people who went through it at company expense then pressure subordinates to join also. The scariest thing is that I recently heard from a rav that somebody started something called Kabalest to jump on the Burg-Madonna shtick. This kind of thing might attract searching and even frum Jews. |
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| zuncompany | Feb 9 2006, 12:58 AM Post #13 |
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I don't know if this is to extreme but have you talked with anyone from any of the groups who deal with people who they bring out of cults? There are special frum orgs that do this. They might not be specifically what you need taka but they might have advice. |
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| rikal | Feb 9 2006, 08:51 AM Post #14 |
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Rebbetzin
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I work with a lot of counselors and educators. I know if I hit this head on it will blow and so will my family. Any one who says anything against it is possuled. The best successes we've made so far is by biting at the edges - bringing up situations and indirect conversations that bring him to challenge certain ideas. It sounds sneaky, but nobody is saying take it or leave it. I just want him to reexamine things himself w/o feeling attacked or threatened. Not replacing their brainwash with mine as what he chooses when he thinks consciously will be his choice. Another thing I do is in controlled situations I let the kids go wild and break all my rules until he cannot stand it. Then he stands up for what is right and they usually respect him. He's good and neither me or the kids would want to lose him. BTW, here is one description and another. Cult deprogramming is not extreme for this. I am trying to deprogram with velvet gloves. |
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| zuncompany | Feb 9 2006, 01:34 PM Post #15 |
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sounds like you are doing it in a careful way that benefits your family. Those orgs might have more ideas for you- never know. Lots of luck and hugs! |
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