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Parenting a teen ain't for the faint of heart
Topic Started: Nov 8 2006, 02:44 PM (822 Views)
chavamom
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Bala Buste
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Sigh. Oldest ds is actually doing quite well in many respects. He
requested to be moved to the 'advanced Talmud' group (the 'yeshiva
track' with night seder and Sunday class) and is doing well there.
BUT - and this is a big but - I am seeing the 'global' problem that
most of the kids in the school he live in much more "open" homes - TV,
videos, unrestricted internet (just plain dumb if you ask me there),
X-box, secular music, NCSY (co-ed)....

Makes it very hard for for ds. Last night he was on the internet
chatting with a rabbi from 'askmoses' about secular music. It is such
a struggle for him right now. Basically, all the other guys listen to
music. The 'frummer' ones are selective about what they listen to,
but according to him there are only 2 other boys that only listen to
Jewish music (at least they are two 'cool' boys, so that makes it
easier). He is still *really* resistant to the idea of going to away
to yeshiva. I had a long talk with him (B'H, he still talks to me -
more than I can say for his relationship with his father). I
suggested that when you look at the global picture of what is going on
socially, maybe a different school would be a better fit. He says
that he sees kids in 'frummer' schools as having a large number of
'hypocrits'. when I asked him what he meant, he said, "they will
freak out at you if you put a sefer down the wrong way, but then you
find out they have a girlfriend or worse - things I can't even talk
about! At least the kids I go to school with are kids who know where
they are holding and they are nice." OK then....

And he refers to my husband as 'Mr. No'. As in 'says no to
everything'. He said "I'm doing everything that you want from me.
I'm learning more and I'm doing well in school. But you aren't giving
me anything I want." He does have a point there. But mostly what he
wants at this point is videos and being 'permitted' to listen to
secular music (I don't kid myself that he doesn't listen to it outside
of the house). Stuff I really don't want in my house. I said maybe
we could agree that he would be able to go to a few movies with
friends and he responded that 'Mr. No will say you've lost your mind'.

And on another front, we went to a meeting to meet the rebbe that they
have hired for the new Mesivta of St. Louis. The rebbe seemed
impressive, but what the parents want - not so much. All learning,
all the time - to keep them "busy"! - and new 'takanos' for the community to keep the boys and girls apart. Right, b/c all the multiple rules they already have in place have solved that problem for the Beis Ya'akov girls (NOT. There is a big problem of secret girlfriend/boyfriends, see my ds's comment above). So what we need is MORE rules and takanos. The vibe I was getting was reeeeeeeeeeeaaaallly not healthy.

Anywho.

That's my life at the moment. Any suggestions? Anyone?
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ebpeuka
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Go into hibernation for the next 10 years?

Sorry I can't help. You're getting me nervous. What are we going to be facing in 12 years from now?!?
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Reverse Karma
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It isn't easy...but who said anything worthwhile ever is?

I've also heard - you get the most naches from the kids who give you themost trouble.

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CravingRavioli
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I hear ya.
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chavamom
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Truth be told, he is an amazing kid. How many kids would sit down and chat with a rabbi on 'ask moses' about the issue? This is the same kid that told me after seeing the R. Daniel Mechanic with the Project Chazon program "If you live with the reality that G-d exists, you'd have to live your life differently. You'd have to be *really* frum". He's a thinker and surprisingly self-aware. He had a whole discussion with my dh and I last Fri night about where some of his learning issues originated and he was so on target (early teacher who didn't give them the building blocks for learning, but just jumped in as if they could learn and then only later when he had a different rebbe who went back and gave them a foundation did he start to 'get it'). But he has a few issues. He is resistant to being 'told' anything - he has to come to it. But when he does, he is like fire. He is also a 'thinker', so he does see the hypocrisies. I was discussing the whole issue with a local rebbe who said it is a big problem in the "Aguda" school that the kids there pick on one another using frumkeit as a weapon "You didn't blah, blah, blah you apikorus...." They think it's that there are an unusual number of *parents* here who treat their kids that way (they attributed it to lg. number of BT's and they harass their kids 'WHAT?!?! You didn't daven with kavana?!?!" to a 6 year-old and the like) and that is where they learn it. Who knows. But I am 'zoche' to have a son who sees the problem clearly.
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zuncompany
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chavamom- why do they assume its a bt thing? I would never say such a thing to my kids!
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chavamom
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zuncompany
Nov 8 2006, 03:36 PM
chavamom- why do they assume its a bt thing? I would never say such a thing to my kids!

Nor would I. But they claim that we have a lot of BT's here that do.

We do have a weird situation here in town that a lg. portion of the Aguda shul (like 75%) became frum as adults through Aish Hatorah *here* and never spent time in a yeshiva/seminary or developed relationships with rebbeim outside of the rabbis of the Aguda/Aish (and now Kollel) or the rebbeim of their rebbeim. Even I have to say it leads to a weird dynamic sometimes.
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CravingRavioli
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I've seen in certain situations that some BT parents may have unrealistic expectations of their kids because they themselves didn't go through the system. I'm not making a sweeping generalization of BT parents, but unfortunately I know some parents who are like that.
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chavamom
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CravingRavioli
Nov 8 2006, 03:49 PM
I've seen in certain situations that some BT parents may have unrealistic expectations of their kids because they themselves didn't go through the system. I'm not making a sweeping generalization of BT parents, but unfortunately I know some parents who are like that.

Right. I believe that is what they are talking about. I have a friend in Israel who jokes about how it is a miracle her older kids are normal at all (they are now grown) b/c she was scolding them for not saying all of the shema at age 4 or something like that. But she says "I thought that's what you did if you were frum!"
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zuncompany
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Tzippi, I can see that. I worry I am the opposite- that I don't have any expectations because I don't know what I should expect.
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CravingRavioli
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Aren't we all just sort of bumbling along and trying to figure it out as we go along?

Parenting teens is a whole new situation for me, and I'm constantly second-guessing myself. Should I be stricter? More lenient? I have no idea what I'm doing, and I just hope I'm getting it right.
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Reverse Karma
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Many many of “our” teen are on askmoses. One of the advisors spoke for the schools a while back and said this.

my son def. has been on, with his friends asking ? too!
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CravingRavioli
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Chocolate Time
Nov 8 2006, 04:08 PM
One of the advisors spoke for the schools a while back and said this.

hey, I think I was at that meeting, too! :D
thank goodness for mandatory meetin, otherwise I wouldn't have a social life.
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chavamom
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Am I the only one who finds it a shame that they have to go to 'askmoses' and don't have someone they feel they can talk to in their life?
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rikal
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I had one like that. I stood my guns and didn't bend because when you bend they know that the limits are arbitrary. What I did do was never spy or check up on things like music. I told them that they should know that it is w/o my permission but I didn't get into their kishkes. They started begging me to approve because "We're gonna do it anyway". I told them that it makes me sad but I don't allow. No scream, cool calm statement of fact.

I also have a kid that would do better away and he is extremely attached to the house. It is hurting me that we may have to return him to the place he was because he can't leave. He also has the prob of being upset that dh does nothing to the other 2 who are not like he is. He told me he is tired of being a tzaddik because he just loses friends.

Raising teenagers is when most of us grow up. Unfortunately we raise each one a little better because we hopefully learned on the mistakes we made on their older sibs.

CM, you are so right. Ask Moses is not the address for frum kids. Call it something else, but I think every group should have the equivalent of what we call a mashpia. An adult that the teen chooses to consult with and is not necessarily part of the home/school authority structure. The important thing is that the teen chooses who he wants to open up to. The adult doesn't betray that trust by reporting to someone else (except if necessary like drugs, suicidal thoughts or teenage preg).
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