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| Fast of the Bechor (firstborn) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 10 2008, 02:31 AM (1,034 Views) | |
| Kmelion | Apr 10 2008, 02:31 AM Post #1 |
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Yishuvnik
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Just a reminder - it's Thursday, April 17th this year. It is accepted that a Bechor husband cannot fast for his Bechor son and in theory even women who are first-born need to fast as well (although I'm not sure what happens if the husband and wife are both first born...). In practice, women generally do not (the theory being they have too much work for Pesach). For me it becomes even more interesting. My husband and I are first-born of our families. My son is my husband's first-born, but my third. For Pidyon haBen, DS doesn't have first-born status obligations, but for Fast of the Bechor he does! |
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| rikal | Apr 10 2008, 04:30 AM Post #2 |
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Rebbetzin
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Because for pidyon it says specifically peter rechem first born of his mother. My dh fasted for ds and nephew until they became BM, now we send 3 firstborn males to the siyum. My dd does not fast, and being always considered preg or nursing by halacha its a moot point. |
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| U Tarzan Me Jane | Apr 10 2008, 06:27 AM Post #3 |
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Rebbetzin
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My father always went to a siyum for me. the last few years, My Husband has gone for my son, as he is not a bechor. AFAIK, my father still goes too (he is also not a bechor). I was always taught that since the girls were also killed during Macot bechorot, we also had an obligation to fast. But my father/husband were able to go to a siyum to take care of my obligation. |
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| sauls_mom | Apr 10 2008, 06:47 AM Post #4 |
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Bala Buste
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what happens at a siyum |
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| Estie | Apr 10 2008, 07:47 AM Post #5 |
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aishes chayil
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A siyum is a celebration done when you complete a tractate of the Talmud or a seder of the mishna or even the little ones can make a siyum on a Parsha (portion of the week). It is a joyous occasion and makes a meal into a "seudat mitzvah" (mitzvah meal). At a seudat mitzvah people who are required to fast (or during the 9 days in the month of Av to eat no meat) are able to eat (eat meat in the case of the 9 days). Similarly if there is a brit or bar mitzvah that day. Because of this, many people purposely plan their learning as to finish that morning so that they can make a siyum. Any participant in the meal is then allowed to eat. Hope this makes sense. |
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| zuncompany | Apr 10 2008, 09:40 AM Post #6 |
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I am still nursing Frei and am exempt. Dh is the baby of his family. Zusil is not obligated as he is not considered a bechor so dh doesn't have to fast for him. |
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| sauls_mom | Apr 10 2008, 10:11 AM Post #7 |
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Bala Buste
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thanks Estie for taking to the time to explain it. |
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| Mindy | Apr 10 2008, 11:21 AM Post #8 |
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princess
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according to what I learned, only men have to fast. i am the oldest and was never told to fast. then again in our circles women dont fast, only yom kippur & tisha b'av. my son was born via c section so dh doesnt have to fast for him. (though when he turns 13 he'll think he's a bechor and we wont want to tell him yet about his c section so if he wants to learn a mesechte we certainly wont discourage him :). ) |
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| zuncompany | Apr 10 2008, 11:37 AM Post #9 |
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Mindy- is there any reason you won't tell him? When we asked the Rav about this topic (fast or not to fast for Zu) he told us when Zu gets to the age he would be learning that bechors fast, etc... that we are obligated to make sure he understands he is not a bechor. |
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| Kmelion | Apr 10 2008, 11:59 AM Post #10 |
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Yishuvnik
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The thing is though, there are apparently different categories of 'Halachic Bechor' since my son is considered Bechor for the Fast of the Bechor, but not considered Bechor for Pidyon haBen... which would lead one to believe how the child is born (for the sake of the Fast) doesn't matter. I found this source which says the following: To circumvent dispute among the poskim (halakhic authorities) regarding the obligation of a firstborn born through caesarean section or a firstborn non-Jew who converts to Judaism, Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv (Seder Ha'aruch, Vol. 3, p. 44) suggests that such firstborns participate in a seudat mitzvah. Granted it's off Wikipedia, but further investigation showed this: http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/?cat=301 |
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| zuncompany | Apr 10 2008, 12:38 PM Post #11 |
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And we were told it was not necc. Its all who you hold by. I have heard both sides. We hold there is no obligation. |
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| Mindy | Apr 10 2008, 12:49 PM Post #12 |
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princess
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becauwse in my circles we dont talk to 13 year olds about pregnancies and deliveries and such issues. too young. Then again he probably wotn fast - he will learn an extra mesechte. what's so bad about that??? :) |
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| gayilc | Apr 10 2008, 01:16 PM Post #13 |
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aishes chayil
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Hard to believe that a kid who is learning gemarah already (I think they are by 13?) is not able to be talked to about this. |
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| zuncompany | Apr 10 2008, 01:42 PM Post #14 |
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Zusil knows at this age he came from mommy's tummy... he has lots of friends who are getting new babies so he asked. He knows after his mommy has a baby he has to be careful of my incision cause I got a booboo when the baby came. Can't risk him hurting me and he is curious why he can't jump on me like normal and why we have to be extra gentle with mommy. The only thing is- he doesn't realize that ALL mommies don't have booboos on their tummy from the baby coming. LOL At 13 we don't need to go into details about birthing methods and such but I think he will have a bit of a clue by than. That babies are born in different ways and the way he was born means he does not have to fast. |
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| jellybean | Apr 10 2008, 02:38 PM Post #15 |
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aishes chayil
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i thought that csection babies also fast this one. dh is a bechor so he goes, my brother and nephew are bechorim, bil too, and my brother didn't have a pidyon haben since my mother's father was a kohen but he still fasts / goes to a siyum. i remember my father going for my brother & my father is not a bechor. |
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3:48 AM Jul 11