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Fast of the Bechor (firstborn)
Topic Started: Apr 10 2008, 02:31 AM (1,035 Views)
zuncompany
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It was explained like this to us- while a boy who is a cohen or levi doesn't have a pidyon haben they are still a bechor and still get a first born's inheritance. A boy by c/s is not and does not. They are not a bechor and do not have to fast. If I was somehow able to give birth vaginally one day and birthed a boy, he would actually be my bechor NOT Zusil.
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Kmelion
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zuncompany
Apr 10 2008, 09:47 PM
It was explained like this to us- while a boy who is a cohen or levi doesn't have a pidyon haben they are still a bechor and still get a first born's inheritance. A boy by c/s is not and does not. They are not a bechor and do not have to fast. If I was somehow able to give birth vaginally one day and birthed a boy, he would actually be my bechor NOT Zusil.

But did you also ask specifically for the Fast of the Bechor? The reason I ask is as I already stated, while Nati isn't considered a Bechor for Pidyon haBen (because he's my third child and born via c-section), he IS considered a Bechor for this fast (he is his father's first biological child).
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realeez
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I was just reading that since this fast is pushed up to Thursday, fathers who would normally fast for their sons who are firstborns don't need to!
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zuncompany
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yes... this is specifically what we asked for.

We are always questioned about this and I respect others hold differently we hold this way. I have asked 4 times now this exact question of our rav because every year people bring this on up on the forums and bring this source and that source and I get worried. The Rav this year said to say clearly- this is how WE hold... others might hold/poskin differently but we are not them.
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realeez
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Seems like a chassidish thing that a c/section "bechor" doesn't fast. Interesting about the ladies fasting - I've never head of that! Thank goodness for the siyums although what"s weird is that from what I've heard most of them have macaroons and not actual washing although dh (on my ds bchor's* behalf) lucked out last year on erev pesach with bagels and lox!!!!

* My ds had his pidyon haben 6 years ago the day after Pesach which was nuts since it was also a Friday! IIRC, that year since he was under 30 days dh didnt have to fast for him!
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Marion
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Usually DH goes to a siyum for himself (and DS). I'm actually quite glad the siyum is NOT the same day & time as biur chametz this year! Are under-age DSs exempt when the fast is moved up? How else would DH not have to fast or siyum for him?

(Yes, I'm also a bechora.)
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Mindy
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Kmelion
Apr 10 2008, 02:51 PM
zuncompany
Apr 10 2008, 09:47 PM
It was explained like this to us- while a boy who is a cohen or levi doesn't have a pidyon haben they are still a bechor and still get a first born's inheritance.  A boy by c/s is not and does not.  They are not a bechor and do not have to fast.  If I was somehow able to give birth vaginally one day and birthed a boy, he would actually be my bechor NOT Zusil.

But did you also ask specifically for the Fast of the Bechor? The reason I ask is as I already stated, while Nati isn't considered a Bechor for Pidyon haBen (because he's my third child and born via c-section), he IS considered a Bechor for this fast (he is his father's first biological child).

my husand's posek told him that the c section thing made him a non bechor so no siyum or fasting needed. your dh's rav told him he's a bechor dspite the c section?
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Mindy
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gayilc
Apr 10 2008, 01:16 PM
Quote:
 
becauwse in my circles we dont talk to 13 year olds about pregnancies and deliveries and such issues. too young.


Hard to believe that a kid who is learning gemarah already (I think they are by 13?) is not able to be talked to about this.

Whatever things he may have glaned on his own from gemara, it's still not aidel to talk female anatomy to a 13 year old.... Were more sheltered... whatever...
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Mindy
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zuncompany
Apr 10 2008, 01:42 PM
Zusil knows at this age he came from mommy's tummy... he has lots of friends who are getting new babies so he asked. He knows after his mommy has a baby he has to be careful of my incision cause I got a booboo when the baby came. Can't risk him hurting me and he is curious why he can't jump on me like normal and why we have to be extra gentle with mommy. The only thing is- he doesn't realize that ALL mommies don't have booboos on their tummy from the baby coming. LOL

At 13 we don't need to go into details about birthing methods and such but I think he will have a bit of a clue by than. That babies are born in different ways and the way he was born means he does not have to fast.

no problem, diff strokes for diff folks, when I was 18 my mother still didnt want to talk to me about anythign to do with pregnancy etc. I think I'll be a bit more open to my children, but not at 13. It also depends on older or younger sibs, my 16 yr old sister is a LOT more exposed than i was, since she has older sisters who are pg and giving birth and recuperating in m yparents home and she overhears things. Whereas I as the oldest child was not exposed to pregnancy on a day to day basis - I was 15 when my mother had our youngest child.
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zuncompany
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Absolutely. I was just surprised as we were told specifically to make sure he knows he is not considered a bechor... they we were not told we have to tell him why ;)
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Kmelion
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Mindy
Apr 11 2008, 03:07 AM
my husand's posek told him that the c section thing made him a non bechor so no siyum or fasting needed. your dh's rav told him he's a bechor dspite the c section?

We were told by our Rav that for the Fast of the Firstborn, Nati is considered a Bechor. Even with the c-section, even though he is not my bechor.
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zuncompany
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I guess this is one place Ravs will disagree and you need to ask your own Rav about your own son.
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realeez
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zuncompany
Apr 11 2008, 12:41 PM
I guess this is one place Ravs will disagree and you need to ask your own Rav about your own son.

only one place when rabbanim disagree?! ;)
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zuncompany
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no, this is just one of the many.
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