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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 14 2008, 07:02 AM (494 Views) | |
| Estie | Jul 14 2008, 07:02 AM Post #1 |
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aishes chayil
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I will preface by saying that by and large my kids are good kids and I do not have that much trouble with them. I am looking for advice or maye some empathy, I guess. Yesterday was visiting day. I dutifully bought all the nosh, clothes (I need another shell!!), socks, drinks, etc that they asked me for. I was there at 11:10 (visiting day officially started at 11:00). I took them off campus to my SIL's bungalow. Then what did the girls do? (DS was in another camp (they go to single gender camps), I didn't go there, nephew brought him over and took him back, no problems with him for now, B"H). 1. They went to sleep for about 3-4 hours. OK I know they stay up late in camp. But we did drive for over 2 hours each way to see them. 2. When we dropped them off (after the official end time, of course because otherwise they would "be all alone in camp" and be embarrassed, DD1 asked us to overtip her counselors because they are the best. I said - you have some $$ you can add your own, but I am not overtipping, I paid enough already. So she sulks out of the car and makes like we are some sort of ax murderer parents. I was driving my 28 year old married nephew in law (married to my niece) back to the city and he comments "what's with her"? I have half a mind to skip the next visiting day. DS doesn't have one, and the DDs see us as some sort of ATM. We pay a lot to send them to camp the whole summer (lots of ppl go for 1/2 because of the expense, and then work the other 1/2 as counselors or JCs in the local day camps), I got every single stupid thing on their lists and then some, and this is my payback? What do you think? Should I leave them at camp 2nd visiting day (also be aware that they return home 1 week and 1 day later because of where 9 Av is on the calendar)? DH wants to take them to lunch and return them at 3 and tell them to sleep there (they will not be happy with that, the thing on visiting day is to be anywhere but camp). Should I write them a letter or fax explaining that I was hurt? She is 15 years old and should know better. Thanks for letting me get it off my chest. It doesn't seem as bad now that I wrote it down. |
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| Estie | Jul 14 2008, 07:03 AM Post #2 |
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aishes chayil
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Oh, I am planning to go into the city today, so I won't respond until later. |
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| U Tarzan Me Jane | Jul 14 2008, 07:18 AM Post #3 |
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Rebbetzin
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bighug The only thing that really crossed the line is the tipping thing. She should realize that it is a business transaction and amounts are completely up to you as the parent. Sulking 15 year olds is pretty much an expected state, (not that I have a 15 year old, but I have been one and sulking was a biggie for me) Most children look at their parents as ATM's (My 2 year old requests "quaters" lol ), Kids have no idea how much camp costs, they think that this is what everyone gets and they are entitled to it. At some point it might be good to have a civil conversation about their behavior, and let them know that you are hurt a bit by their basic manners. Don't be confrontational, Just because then they will be obnoxious back, just let them know that you had been looking forward to seeing them and were a bit disappointed by their behavior. I would not skip the next visiting day, It may give them the impression that you don't care (as far from the truth as it is) 15 year olds have Very self centered views of the world. Don't worry, at some point teenagers become adults and then you get to laugh at all of this nutty stuff! |
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| Kmelion | Jul 14 2008, 09:05 AM Post #4 |
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Yishuvnik
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Now here's a stupid question... why don't you send your daughters this post (or something close to it) and tell them you didn't appreciate their attitude and ingratitude when you were up to see them and you're considering not returning the second time around. I have no problem telling my children I find their behavior disrespectful and I expect better from them when they step out of line. |
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| zuncompany | Jul 14 2008, 11:03 AM Post #5 |
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Administrator
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I actually would have been more miffed about the sleeping than the tip issue. I never got the whole tip thing until I worked a summer at camp in the catskills. After visiting day the counselors were shown their tips and knew who tipped better. I saw very different counselors after that day who definitely favored kids who tipped better. Not everyone (I thought the whole tipping thing was sick!) but the kids are well aware that if their counselors aren't tipped well they are going to have issues. Could this be why she is asking you to tip generously. The thing is- the parents let them get away with it. Their own parents did this when they were campers and once they become counselors they expect to be treated the same and the parents comply. The camps pay bubkiss out there compared to other camps around the country and the only way to make it worth it is good tips. Otherwise your basically ripped off being there. I made more being a JC at the reform camp (no tips allowed!) than with my tips (and I did well tip wise that summer) at the camp in the catskills as a senior counselor who had LOADS of responsibility. I also got better benefits at the reform camp and was treated with more respect. |
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| Estie | Jul 14 2008, 01:35 PM Post #6 |
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aishes chayil
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I'm back. I didn't mind the sleeping that much or I would have asked them not to go to sleep or I would have woken them up. I just didn't appreciate the attitude. I do not think overtipping is the norm. I can't imagine their counselors not being satisfied with the recommended tips. I do understand that she wants to give them more, but I can't understand why she can't take it from her own pocket (which started out mine too, I gave them spending money after all). I think I am going to fax them that I was disappointed in their behavior and hope that they think about it some more and try to see where I am coming from. And I know the tipping is not fair, but to be truthful I once sent my daughter to a no tipping camp and the camp fees were higher by about the same amount as the tips so it is a wash at the end anyway. |
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| zuncompany | Jul 14 2008, 01:53 PM Post #7 |
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Administrator
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The reform camp I worked at was actually a little less than the kids were paying at the camp I worked at in the catskills... I don't know how the parents did it and paid for day school (most of the kids at the reform camp went to public school). Now the reform camp was a LOT bigger having over a thousand campers throughout the summer so they have slightly lower costs. The pay difference was HUGE though. We are talking a couple thousand more. I can only tell you that while the parents were told that the average tip was xyz we were told to expect abc and abc was a lot more than xyz would have added up to be. It might even be a midwest vs. east coast thing since I don't know what the situation is in camps like Moshava in Wis. I just know the campers knew to pressure the parents to tip more and a lot of it is coming from within the camp. The remind your kids over and over right before you come about tipping. At least the did the place I was at. (made me want to puke btw!) |
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| ElTam | Jul 14 2008, 02:26 PM Post #8 |
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queen
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I think I would focus on future behavior, rather than past actions. Just explain firmly and clearly that as the parent you will decide on the tip amount. If she would like to tip more, she can figure out a way to earn it or use gift money from birthdays or something. (I don't do this yet because my kids are too little, but we will have a job board where they can pick a job above and beyond their household duties to earn cash. We do not believe in an allowance.) I wouldn't tell her that her the sulking bothers you. That was her point, to bother you so she would get her way. I would just ignore the sulking or point out that if she's so unhappy with camp, she's more than welcome to stay home next summer. If the whining and sulking have negative repercussions (you bring fewer things off the list next time and if she complains, point out that she neglected acknowledge or thank you last time, so you were less than motivated to schlepp all over town for someone who doesn't show hakaras hatov) rather than positive ones, it'll stop. You just have to be firm and consistent. Good luck. |
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