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For those who do not do gebrocks
Topic Started: Mar 22 2009, 03:01 PM (1,579 Views)
zuncompany
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If I did that they wouldn't eat at all. They pretty much live on matzah pesach time and fruit. Like I said, dh and I talked and we will make it clear that if they want to keep eating they can go in the other room so we can have our meal. All the kids around here run around with their matza cover bags snacking.

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shalhevet
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ebpeuka
Mar 25 2009, 01:05 PM
shalhevet
Mar 25 2009, 09:07 AM
And I have a question for those who consider their utensils 'treif' if they had gebrokts on them - what about when you wash the plate from the matza crumbs? - it becomes gebrokts right there.
That's why we wash the dishes right away, before 18 minutes elapse (although I can guarantee that the sink is certainly gebrochts.) Actually, that's the one advantage of non-gebrochts: you can wash dishes right away, even if you won't need them again that day, as opposed to waiting for the night.
So why can you do this on Shabbos and YT if you don't need the dishes that day? You are still preparing for MS or MYT.
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ebpeuka
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No, you're saving the dishes from becoming "chometzdik". If you would have great agmas nefesh from leaving dirty dishes around, you're allowed to wash them (graf shel rayee). I guess the same principle is at work here.
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guarana613
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Wow, what a hot topic.
Shalhevet, we do not bring any utensils to the table until after all the matza has been completely cleared away and we put a new plastic tablecloth, however because of matza being in ones mouth every dish gets washed straight away ( and sorry to freak anyone on this board we donīt use industrialized detergent to wash dishes on Pesach--its salt, lemon, hot water for us).
Rikal--it is said that the Rebbe Rashabs wine did not have any water (ie the grapes were not washed) There are those who make their own wine who also donīt wash their grapes because of this (because gebrocks is only with water). We make our own wine, but my dh does wash the grapes.
But Zun, we DO eat avocado on matza!!!!! We are careful though that no water comes into contact with the avocado (so you have to make sure that the knife you use to peel the avo is 100% dry--I just use a plastic knife and we donīt use any avocado that was refrigerated because of condensation that could have occurred)
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zuncompany
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guarana- someone actually pmed me about the avocado. Tev doesn't really gebrock so I am not worried about him (he is ana. to avocado) but Frei and Tev LOVE avocado and thats one of the few others foods they eat a lot of on pesach. Good to hear you guys hold by this as well. This would make a huge difference. I use all plastics anyway with the avocados so that would be totally not a problem. Thanks so much for the info.
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shalhevet
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ebpeuka
Mar 25 2009, 06:14 PM
If you would have great agmas nefesh from leaving dirty dishes around, you're allowed to wash them (graf shel rayee). I guess the same principle is at work here.
I never, never heard such an opinion (sorry this is going off topic). Graf shel rayee (something bothering you greatly) applies to muktza (not being allowed to move something with no use for it) - meaning, for example, if the garbage is overflowing/ smelling and it bothers you, you are allowed to empty it on Shabbos or YT (unless it's outside the eruv on Shabbos). What does that have to do with hachana (preparing for the next day on Shabbos or YT)? Do you have a source that you are allowed to wash dishes for any other reason than you (might) need them again the same day?
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Marion
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My Rav allowed it, for EXACTLY the reason mentioned above. It bothers me greatly to have dirty dishes spread around my kitchen all day. I can't move and I can't find anything and it takes away from my Shabbat. The psak I got was I could wash as many dishes as necessary so that the others would fit in the sink and I wouldn't have to look at them all day.
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rikal
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sauls_mom
Mar 25 2009, 07:19 AM
oil has water in it?
It definitely does.

Wine by law (commercial) must have water in it. I know families who make there own in Y-m and Kfar Chabad. You have to add water to drink it, halacha.
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guarana613
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rikal
Mar 26 2009, 06:28 AM
You have to add water to drink it, halacha.
never heard of this (ex-The Rebbe Rashabīs wine) Whats your source?
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hallie_ari_mom
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I could live on avocados alone.
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rikal
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I learned this from R' Abba Brenenson of the English yeshiva in Kfar Chabad. He has made his own wine - grapes only - for years and told me that one must add a little water as pure wine is assur. An exact source is not possible before Pesach.
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rikal
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Yes, there are differences in Lubavitch. They have to do with place and family. An old Lubavitch family will do what they did growing up or how they took on in yeshiva and BR. BTs will more likely do what they were taught which is most likely from Rabbi Horowitz's books and the Rebbe's Hagadda. In EY there is a close holding to what is written in the Rebbe's Hagadda. There has been out for several years a Haggada that has notes from the Rebbe's actual sedorim from those zocheh to be there like R' YY Ofen of Y-m. It is in Hebrew. Rav Yekusiel Green's Haggada, the one I use every year, has also been translated into English.

The plastic and the bags are not minhag. They are practical solutions to a problem. Looking into your cup before pouring is actual minhag.
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ebpeuka
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shalhevet
Mar 26 2009, 04:47 AM
ebpeuka
Mar 25 2009, 06:14 PM
If you would have great agmas nefesh from leaving dirty dishes around, you're allowed to wash them (graf shel rayee). I guess the same principle is at work here.
I never, never heard such an opinion (sorry this is going off topic). Graf shel rayee (something bothering you greatly) applies to muktza (not being allowed to move something with no use for it) - meaning, for example, if the garbage is overflowing/ smelling and it bothers you, you are allowed to empty it on Shabbos or YT (unless it's outside the eruv on Shabbos). What does that have to do with hachana (preparing for the next day on Shabbos or YT)? Do you have a source that you are allowed to wash dishes for any other reason than you (might) need them again the same day?
I don't have a source that I can point you to, because this isn't something I decided on my own to do. It's something my mother grew up doing. My grandfather wasn't a posek or rov (although, having received heter horaa at age 18, he could have been) but he was an expert in halacha. If he allowed his wife and daughters to do it, then it was perfectly permissible.

My husband's maggid shiur (Rav Posen zt"l of Yeshivas Luzern) told his students that he allowed his wife to wash even the seuda shlishis dishes because dirty dishes destroyed her Oneg Shabbos.
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chavamom
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shalhevet
Mar 26 2009, 04:47 AM
ebpeuka
Mar 25 2009, 06:14 PM
If you would have great agmas nefesh from leaving dirty dishes around, you're allowed to wash them (graf shel rayee). I guess the same principle is at work here.
I never, never heard such an opinion (sorry this is going off topic). Graf shel rayee (something bothering you greatly) applies to muktza (not being allowed to move something with no use for it) - meaning, for example, if the garbage is overflowing/ smelling and it bothers you, you are allowed to empty it on Shabbos or YT (unless it's outside the eruv on Shabbos). What does that have to do with hachana (preparing for the next day on Shabbos or YT)? Do you have a source that you are allowed to wash dishes for any other reason than you (might) need them again the same day?
I'll ask the dh for the source, but I've definitely heard the same opinion. I believe it might even be in Shmiras Shabbos.
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zuncompany
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Yeah, I learned the same thing about dishes.

Rikal, for some of us BTs we learned from the families we got close to and who mekarved us. I spent 5 pesachs learning how to make pesach with a specific family and so I hold by a lot of their stuff unless dh says otherwise.
Edited by zuncompany, Mar 26 2009, 10:54 AM.
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