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| Stardust Study and Research; Solve the mysteries of Stardust! | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 4 2006, 03:37 PM (1,158 Views) | |
| Sylph | Feb 4 2006, 03:37 PM Post #1 |
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Katamari
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I am investigating the creation and generation of stardust, both in the cosmos and in the roll up the sun levels. I will make a list of what I have definitely confirmed: 1. Stardust from Katamari Damacy is not imported when you import constellations, just the constellations. This was easy to determine, I just made a new game and imported it and looked at the sky. 2. Stardust is created by completing any level, even if it is the first time and nothing is split up (as in the old planet or the katamari). 3. Stardust created from breaking up your katamari is not affected by the size of the katamari. All sizes make the same amount of stardust. 4. There is an effective limit determined randomly on how much stardust can be picked up each time you play Roll up the Sun. This is between 6700 and 7300. I am still trying to determine whether or not you can get enough stardust where it starts to fill in that area again 5. Once you have created between 750 and 800 celestial objects, the game will first start to clump together on Roll up the Sun in groups of 3. At a certain amount even higher, it starts forming in groups primarily of 7. 6. After you have created over 7000 stardust (an approximation) the game expands the placement of stardust on Roll up the Sun to be both above and below the area you can grow to. This essentially is what limits your growth there, by all the new stardust being moved outsize your reach. It is still being made and placed, but not where you can grab it. 7. At between 400 and 480 celestial objects, the game adds in a background of stars to the Roll up the Sun level. I previously thought they were added in gradually, but it appears that it is an 'object' that you acquire through stardust creation. 8. There is a specific order of objects created unannounced by the King. The White Hole is the last one created, at an average of 1000 celestial objects. This is the order: Cassiopeia Big Dipper Vega and Altair(made at the same time) Background of Stars(Roll up the Sun) UFO Orion Black Hole Space Station White Hole Now I am trying to determine certain things. I will outline what they are in case anyone else curious wants to help out: 1. If you can fill up the areas above and below the collectible area of Roll up the Sun with stardust, forcing the game to place more where you can reach it. Alternately, I think the game might expand the area again. Either way I am trying to figure it out. 2. The amount of stardust made that the game starts creating Bright Shining Stars instead of Shining Stars. |
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| slowbro | Feb 4 2006, 05:07 PM Post #2 |
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way too silly :S
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Keep up the good research, this is definitely interesting to me and probably others. So why do you think Vix and I can't reach our old highest stardust totals? My guess from your research would be that less stardust randomly formed within the region where you can pick it up (more formed above and below), or maybe Vix and I just aren't patient enough? But it really seems like less stardust is available in my recent attempts than in my earlier attempts. BTW even recently I can always make it to your 6700-7300 range, just only to the lower part of the range. |
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| Sylph | Feb 4 2006, 05:14 PM Post #3 |
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Katamari
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Just last night I got 6800 one run, and then I tried again right away and came up with 7135. This is why I am certain that the stardust is randomized in location each time you play Roll up the Sun. It impossible to miss that much after a thorough rolling. |
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| vix | Feb 4 2006, 06:41 PM Post #4 |
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Run you clever boy and remember...
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Do you think what level you turn into stardust determines where it may be placed in the sky? If you make tons of sumo stardust, will it be in the sumo planet area? And I must say, very impressive research. Mind if I add it to the faq?
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| Sylph | Feb 4 2006, 06:56 PM Post #5 |
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Katamari
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Well you can, but it seriously is not complete yet. As for placement, I don't think it does but there IS a way to find out. Simply start a new game and keep beating the same level over and over again. I am not currently working on that aspect right now, I am more focused on figuring out if the katamari size determines how much stardust is created. In order to do this I have done the following: I now have a game with all of the basic planets beaten one time. I just finished rolling up the sun. The total amount of stardust I could pick up was just around 200. I determined that the game actually starts placing stardust out of your reach from the start, but not in force. I noticed something else however that didn't encourage me . . . In my brand new game, all of the stardust is in what I call collectible form and within the radius I described previously. The actual background that can only be seen by going into the prince view and looking straight down is entirely devoid of stars. In my regular game, that background is cram packed with stars. If in fact after a while a good portion of stardust gets shoved into the background, this makes for a much more long term project than I originally figured. I can't really tell whether it is adding the main stardust bank more or to the background. You obviously can't pick up the background so it will forever be out of reach. I think that the cosmos screen may in fact be the only accurate way of seeing how much stardust you have later on. In my new game the sky is still more or less barren of stars, whereas in my original game there is starting to be alot of stardust even right in the middle of the solar system! It looks like the game does not really care where it places it in the cosmo screen, as long as it is visible. |
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| vix | Feb 4 2006, 07:50 PM Post #6 |
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Run you clever boy and remember...
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I won't add it in to the faq until you come up with a final set.
As for the placement dealy, I'll have to try and give that a go tonite. |
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| Sylph | Feb 4 2006, 07:56 PM Post #7 |
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Katamari
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Alrighty then. I've been playing ALAP 5 to test it out and I keep breaking my old speed records. No such luck with size. It seems the faster you try to do it, the more little stuff you miss out on to bump you up the last couple centimeters. |
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| Sylph | Feb 4 2006, 09:08 PM Post #8 |
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Katamari
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The Stardust I was able to collect first try on Roll up the Sun was 170. After 3 runs of breaking up ALAP 3, I was able to collect 315 Stardust. After 3 runs of breaking up the Tutorial Stage I was able to collect 320 Stardust. I now conclude that size of the katamari broken up does NOT affect how much stardust is created. Furthermore, it looks like each breakup adds around 40 to the count on Roll up the Sun, which may or may not correspond to the Cosmos view, which is itself impossible to record as an actual number so cannot be kept track of except by how you last remember it looking. I have saved the 3 run break-up on my other memory card and plan on expanding on it later and testing for several things: 1. Exactly when your stars stop being mainly singular stardust in Roll up the Sun. 2. Exactly when your stars star being the Shining Star groups of 7. 3. When you start having a background with stars in it in Roll up the Sun. I don't actually plan on literally figuring out how much stardust individual levels give. That would be way too long to determine to tell the truth, and probably does not matter. |
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| khfan1 | Feb 5 2006, 12:22 AM Post #9 |
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I don't know if this is on topic, but if you roll for a long time than your Katamari will suck everything in, and the world you are rolling becomes larger. |
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| Sylph | Feb 5 2006, 12:28 AM Post #10 |
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Katamari
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Actually I believe that is an optical illusion. What I believe happens is that as you roll the items start being shoved into it through the pressure of rolling on them. Eventually all items will either go fall into the katamari, or will disappear(which seems to be what happens in Roll up the Sun only, since some items larger, but not more massive, than you can disappear if you roll long enough). Roll up the Sun does seem to have different mechanics than regular levels anyways. An example of an item that won't disappear ever is the Mammoth on the snowman level. |
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| The Prince's Bride | Feb 5 2006, 01:25 AM Post #11 |
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One Love
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Wow, interesting read ! It really looks like you've put a lot of thought into this, keep up the good work! Oh and a quick question: Is there any major differences between "All the Way" and "Just the Sun?" Like, any major differences that could affect scores?
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| Sylph | Feb 5 2006, 01:41 AM Post #12 |
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Katamari
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Well, I've done both a fair number of times and it doesn't appear to affect the actual level. That would make sense since Roll up the Sun is supposed to be an accurate depiction of the sky you have created, with a 4:1 or so ratio of stars to stardust made. I base that on the depiction of the 9 stardust created each time you break up a level and the average I have seen of 30 to 40 stars per break up. |
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| Sylph | Feb 5 2006, 03:24 AM Post #13 |
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Katamari
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Well, I just finished breaking up about 30 planets, and while I wasn't able to get any more stars on Roll up the Sun, I now have a stream of stardust right across the solar system. That is interesting to say the least. I will probably continue over the next few days and see just how it will develop further. It is possible that the background has become more or less full and the game is being forced to generate stars in the center now. |
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| Sylph | Feb 6 2006, 01:55 AM Post #14 |
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Katamari
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After about another 50 break ups and doing Roll up the Sun, it has become clear to me that the game is in fact still adding stardust. I now have stardust appearing closer to the sun than ever before, and a much thicker amount left over after getting the usual amount. I can't pick up any more, but there is obviously more. I've never had the main stream show up before after being done, but is quite clearly there now still. I plan on doing another 100-200 break ups to make absolutely sure, but I am now fairly certain. One way or another I will find out what the game will do when the sky fills up with stardust. |
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| khfan1 | Feb 6 2006, 02:00 AM Post #15 |
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I thought there was a limit to stardust on WLK, but I guess not, now I am going to have to fill up the sky full of stardust on both games... eventually... The fastest way to get stardust on KD is to go to the Bear level, and pick up a small bear right away!
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| Sylph | Feb 6 2006, 02:01 AM Post #16 |
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Katamari
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Actually cowbear level is coincidentally the fastest is WLK. All 3 spawn spots are right next to several items. You can finish the level before the music starts. |
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| khfan1 | Feb 6 2006, 02:04 AM Post #17 |
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Now I don't have to look for a level to get stardust fast... Maybe if you get enough stardust it will be so cluttered that you can grab more!? I love viewing the Cosmos on KD so much, the music is awesome!
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| Sylph | Feb 6 2006, 02:08 AM Post #18 |
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Katamari
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I have already filled the background too much in WLK, the game started generating most of the stardust right in the solar system. Like I said, I now have a stream of stars going all around the place as well as an insanely bright background. |
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| Sylph | Feb 6 2006, 02:43 PM Post #19 |
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Katamari
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I do not know if this was always the case, but I only just now noticed this . . . My Make a Star 9 imported star is within the solar system now, at least to the point where it can be seen up close to the camera without zooming to it. Can anyone else confirm if any of their Katamari Damacy stars are visible like this? On a side note, I am going to start editing the first post whenever I actually get new information. That way the first post has most of the information in it. |
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| khfan1 | Feb 6 2006, 03:55 PM Post #20 |
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I think you can see them all, and pick all of them up... Is that what you were asking? |
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| Sylph | Feb 6 2006, 04:11 PM Post #21 |
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Katamari
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Not in the Roll up the Sun level, I mean in the cosmos screen. I can see it from the frontside, not in the background. |
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| khfan1 | Feb 6 2006, 04:15 PM Post #22 |
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I haven't been in the cosmos screen for awhile...
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| Sylph | Feb 9 2006, 06:53 PM Post #23 |
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Katamari
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I've been working on my new game to find out certain things, such as the order that random items are created, the rate at which breaking planets adds to the total stardust you can pick up in Roll up the Sun, and other such related things. These are my results so far: Background of Stars in Roll up the Sun was between 400 celestial bodies and 480. Order of created objects so far: Cassiopeia Big Dipper Vega and Altair(made at the same time) Background of Stars(Roll up the Sun) UFO Orion 3 breaks = 327 6 breaks = 398 9 breaks = 494 12 breaks = 538 15 breaks = 582 18 breaks = 625 This shows me several things. First is shows me that the background of stars is created as an object at a certain amount of stardust, not over time as I had feared. Secondly, it shows me that more and more of the breakup stars are being placed above and below where you can collect over time. That explains the lowering visible results between stages. So far, almost all stardust is still in the form of individual stars in Roll up the Sun. I will continue to observe in order to find out when the cross over to Shining Stars occurs. |
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| Sylph | Feb 12 2006, 09:01 PM Post #24 |
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Katamari
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I have played along farther on my new game and have determined the following: Background of Stars in Roll up the Sun was between 400 celestial bodies and 480. Process of Stardust changing into Shining Stars starts occuring from 750 to 800 celestial bodies. The last random object(White Hole) was created by the 44th breakup. Order of created objects: Cassiopeia Big Dipper Vega and Altair(made at the same time) Background of Stars(Roll up the Sun) UFO Orion Black Hole Shining Stars start being created from stardust(Roll up the Sun) Space Station White Hole 0 breaks = 218 3 breaks = 327 6 breaks = 398 9 breaks = 494 12 breaks = 538 15 breaks = 582 18 breaks = 625 21 breaks = 675 24 breaks = 690 27 breaks = 747 30 breaks = 797 33 breaks = 836 36 breaks = 878 40 breaks = 981 45 breaks = 1065 50 breaks = 1138 I am certain that the order of created objects is correct, and the trend of star creation can be accurately charted more or less. The average number of stardust created seems to follow roughly a 2:1 ratio in terms of how much the game shows you getting and how much the game puts into the Roll up the Sun level within reach. That was my point of rolling up the sun at set intervals, was to catch the exact trend. I estimate that the game will continue to change stardust into shining stars until the celestial object count goes up to 2400 or so. This is based on the amount of stardust I saw the game having right before the process started, as my theory is that the game stops adding new stardust locations in while it is transforming stardust into shining stars. I will see how that theory pans out in the end. I decided to up the interval to 5 for the last few. Now I am going to increase the interval to 10 now that all the major objects have been created. I have a lot of stardust to cover, and I estimate I will need to break up another 300-350 times to get to the cap of 7000 or so. I want to save exactly how the sky looks when you reach the cap, which will give me a reference point to compare my main game to. That will enable me to determine whether continued play has an actual impact on the Roll up the Sun level, and is worth working on purposefully. |
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| khfan1 | Mar 2 2006, 07:34 PM Post #25 |
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Any updates yet, sylph? Thanks for posting this!
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! It really looks like you've put a lot of thought into this, keep up the good work! Oh and a quick question: Is there any major differences between "All the Way" and "Just the Sun?" Like, any major differences that could affect scores?
4:25 AM Jul 11