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| Credit Crunch; - 2009 | |
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| Topic Started: 20 Oct 2008, 10:08 PM (594 Views) | |
| bvr379 | 20 Oct 2008, 10:08 PM Post #1 |
Operations Manager
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As Chris Shaw has mentioned elsewhere re Sutton Belle, “ The key to this project is simple Pennies!” Unfortunately, many locos need more than just pennies spent on them to keep them going. The FR has recently decided to reduce staff numbers. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7624070.stm I anticipate that 2009 will be a very difficult year to maintain income, whilst expenses rise rapidly. For example the cost of new 130mm x 250mm hardwood point timbers was £12.50 per metre in March 2006, yet a few weeks ago the cost of the same items had increased to £22.50 per metre. So, if you think that a railway is not doing things very quickly, it could be the dearth of funds that is really slowing things up. If nothing else, the above demonstrates the value of volunteers and donations. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Santa will be arriving soon, followed by Mince Pie Specials from 27 Dec 2009 until 3rd Jan 2010. For Bure Valley Railway info. see: BVR website, which includes timetables. | |
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| rough-shunter | 20 Oct 2008, 10:12 PM Post #2 |
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Director
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David i cant offer you hard wood but iu can offer you pressure treated timbers at a fraction of the price! simply dip overnight in oil and your sorted |
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JORDAN ASHLEY LEEDS Trains go into tunnels and come out but locos can go in sheds and never come out | |
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| peterbryant | 21 Oct 2008, 04:56 PM Post #3 |
Director
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It's true that fuel prices and overheads are going up, however with this, more people will be staying put in the UK, and spending any holiday disposable income on the tourist attractions here, so not all hope is lost! So visitor numbers may go up...  Thanks Peter |
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Peter Bryant MRW Webmaster and Admin Railway Web Services - http://www.railwaywebservices.co.uk MRW Hosted by 1&1 | |
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| colinpeake | 21 Oct 2008, 06:01 PM Post #4 |
MRW Digest Editor
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If we are to believe the hype, fuel prices (certainly petrol at some supermarkets) are actually dropping. This might make people think they can travel a little further in the car so trips out may look a little more attractive. So there is hope yet that other costs may drop. However, all railways are bound to make economies, more than the usual end of seasonal staff etc at this time of year. I suspect some miniature lines are better placed to weather the storm than many standard gauge projects. Perhaps one of our railways ought to hold a 'Credit Crunch Gala'..... Perhaps I ought not to have suggested that.... (or at least register it as a trademark!) Colin |
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Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos | |
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| Timbo | 21 Oct 2008, 07:49 PM Post #5 |
Timbo
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I've attended a couple of tourism seminars recently and the jury is still out. The following four hypotheses have been suggested: Hypothesis 1: UK traditionally is for "short breaks" or "top up" holidays. Foreign holidays are for the "main" holiday. This will remain the case, with consumers only taking the main foreign holiday rather than the extra breaks, so domestic tourism decreases. Hypothesis 2: Foreign holidays decrease due to perceived higher cost, and Short breaks are taken in UK instead so to spread the cost over time. Domestic spend on tourism decreases. Hypothesis 3: Spend on domestic tourism and leisure decreases as people try to curt costs across the board, including locally and weekend trips. Hypothesis 4: Spend on short breaks and holidays disappears but people cut costs by spending locally only. What is sure is that people will spend less on leisure generally; they will have to. Whether that is locally, regionally or nationally, their spend patterns will show a decreased frequency (i.e. people will spend on the same things, but less often) e.g. They will visit one steam railway, rather than two or three in a year. Anyway, those are the hypotheses. The UK has never seen a recession in this way before; it is very hard to predict how things are going to turn out. Some businesses will fall, most will find things tougher; but as previous posters have said we live on an island whose economy is linked strongly to the cost of fuel (food costs, transport, house prices etc are all closely linked). |
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Tim Dunn MRW Moderator www.bekonscot.com www.meteorite.co.uk | |
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| rough-shunter | 21 Oct 2008, 10:22 PM Post #6 |
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Director
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I know of one Miniature railway who are busier than they have been in a long time |
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JORDAN ASHLEY LEEDS Trains go into tunnels and come out but locos can go in sheds and never come out | |
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| Merlin | 21 Oct 2008, 10:46 PM Post #7 |
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Porter
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The reality is that for most railways 2007 saw the end of the comfortable times for some while. I know that most miniature railways takings went down this year and only of one which has increased. Some of the decreases are very large percentages. I expect that in a years time there will be fewer railways than there are now because some will be closed by the banks and others by their owners deciding that the effort and risks involved does not stack up. So the answer is to hope that your favorite railway does not become history and help to support and promote it as well as you can. There is no doubt in my mind that those railways which survive will have to work harder than ever to bring in sufficient customers to pay the bills. I do not believe that you can assume any railway is safe. Mike Hanson www.rlsr.org |
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| glastonrail | 21 Oct 2008, 11:01 PM Post #8 |
Dommo
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It all depends n the railway as well, Mike. True, the credit crunch is a factor, but for some of the smaller lines with "fairground"-like prices - our 70p trip for example - the dreadful weather will also have played a part. The DMR has seen a large drop in passenger number,s by my reckoning through a combination of the two events. Majority or people come for Wyevale garden Centre, and then give the kids a ride before and/or afterwards. Now the credit crunch = fewer customers for Wyevale = fewer passengers for us that way. Weather wise, we're an outdoor attraction with not much under cover. The bad summer = rain and poor weather = fewer passengers either passing or even from regulars. In our case it's a case of suck-it-and-see if the credit crunch is really affecting our business. Cheers, Dom Greenop DMR |
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"There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985 Dragon Miniature Railway, Stockport http://www.freewebs.com/dragonrailway | |
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| Merlin | 22 Oct 2008, 01:19 PM Post #9 |
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Porter
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We track our income on a daily basis, against the weather and other factors. There is no doubt that with like for like weather income is down and has been consistently since May/June. It you want to hope for the best and blame it on the weather thats up to you. We will be taking action to cut costs where we can , improve our visitor offer, give better value for money and step up our promotional activities. It will be interesting to review who is still around and the relative strengths of those who are in 2 or 3 years. Mike Hanson www.rlsr.org |
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| dereksmith | 22 Oct 2008, 07:10 PM Post #10 |
Cleaner
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Having spent 18 summers at the RH&DR I reckon I have seen most upturns and downturns. I always reckoned we were operating the longest fairground ride on the South Coast so had to pitch ourselves within that market. This was fine for us as we were independant of others and in this climate I would not like to be associated with a garden centre or other organisation where the primary reason for visiting is not to travel on a railway. At least I knew that people arriving at Hythe were going to spend money on the railway and at our profit centres, not someone elses. As Merlin says it will be interesting to see who is still in good shape in 2 years time. I think we know who the strong players are but even they are not immune to the vagaries of the weather or the lure of the shopping centres where Currys can discount a new washing machine far more than we can discount a passenger ticket. Unfortunately the purchasing power for both come out of the same pocket! So my advice is don't take it too seriously - let your visitors take away the thought that they have been part of the experience and not just an add on - prune your costs to the minimum you need - advertise wisely, ignore silly offers, ensure your marketing leaflets are being distributed properly and that your website is visitor friendly with most of the things a normal visitor (a non puffer nutter) needs to know on the front page - make sure your staff/volunteers know they are there to give the fare paying passengers their total attention (we have all been to a railway where the staff ignore the punters to talk amongst themselves - I well remember one standard gauge railway where some decided to water down the coal without warning the passengers and covered several ladies in wet coal dust, which caused much amusement amongst his cohorts!). All silly things I know but if you look after the silly things then the more important things are a lot easier. |
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Derek Smith dereksmith@whitstablepier.com | |
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| MuzTrem | 22 Oct 2008, 07:14 PM Post #11 |
Operations Manager
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Well I think that if railways want to survive the credit crunch, we have to find new ways to bring in revenue. At Ruislip, we have been experimenting with extended operating hours and it's been a great success. But we are lucky in having a good location - the Lido itself is free so it will always be popular - except when it's raining, of course. Nevertheless, without wishing to sound complacent, I'm fairly sure the larger lines will weather the storm. At the end of the day, all capitalist systems have their booms and busts; we go through hard times but ultimately life goes on... |
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| glastonrail | 22 Oct 2008, 07:27 PM Post #12 |
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Dommo
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This is actually quite an interesting point and possibly one more important that many may realise. Our railways depend heavily on volunteers to operate correctly. Therefore the attitude of the staff, not just towards passengers, but also to each other and to their work, is also as if not more important. The attitude of staff passes over very easily to passengers - if they see the staff enjoying themselves, putting effort in that shows in the general appearance/atmosphere of the place, then they will feel welcome, be impressed with the set-up (especially if they are regulars), and ultimately will hopefully come back for more. Likewise it is also - to some degree - down to management to keep the volunteers coming by making sure all is well for them and that they do not feel put upon/pressurised or generally that they are not enjoying their un-paid time there, after all at the end of the day there is no recompense for all the graft except personal satisfaction of a job well done. Cheers, Dom Greenop DMR |
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"There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985 Dragon Miniature Railway, Stockport http://www.freewebs.com/dragonrailway | |
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| dereksmith | 22 Oct 2008, 08:26 PM Post #13 |
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Cleaner
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I am not sure if that is really the case - in my young days it was very rare that you would be allowed to volunteer for anything as grand as a miniature railway and had to stand in the shadows in the hope that you might be allowed to help push the engine or coaches into the shed. Howey in a famous radio interview was asked about wanting volunteers and was rather scathing about them. The philosophy at Romney when I joined was that once a volunteer walked through the door he was a pressed man and was expected to undertake anything they were given. I still think that the replacement of full time drivers at the RH&DR by volunteers was a big mistake as it left no room for a sweetner (footplate ride with a go at the handle) for work well done. It also saw a migration of good volunteers from other jobs who suddenly only wanted to drive. There is also the point with the RHDR engines that they are heavily used and having an assortment of drivers during a set of turns may not be the kindest thing for the engine. However, it is the system now in place and it is unlikely to change. If I were a volunteer again the biggest buzz I could have was being treated like just another member of staff and the pride I got for a job well done. Accolades and being treated differently just because I am not getting paid for it would make me feel uncomfortable. And to ensure that everyone - staff and volunteers - are trained in customer service I would put them through a 'Welcome Host' course or whatever the latest thing is. And also if you run a cafe remind the staff that the next person they serve could work in the public health department of your local council. |
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Derek Smith dereksmith@whitstablepier.com | |
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| MuzTrem | 22 Oct 2008, 08:49 PM Post #14 |
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Operations Manager
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I can see how the position of volunteers becomes more complex in an organisation that also has paid staff. But many of the smaller miniature lines are volunteer only, and in those circumstances it is important to treat them well. If you've got paid staff to fall back on then it's not the end of the world if a volunteer walks out; but if you can't afford that luxury then you need all the volunteers you can get. And you do need to treat them well if you want them to stay. Sorry to sound horribly pessimistic, but the human race is fundamentally selfish: people won't work unless there's something in it for them! |
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| dereksmith | 22 Oct 2008, 09:10 PM Post #15 |
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Cleaner
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There is a difference between treating people well and pandering too them simply because they are doing you a favour by working for nothing. Looking at it from the other side you could say that by inviting them to work on your railway you are doing them a favour. Neither volunteers nor paid staff are indispensible but whatever you feel then it is very important in the world of customer service to build up a spirit between your full time and volunteer staff that transmits itself to the visiting public. It was a continual juggling act at Romney to keep both sides happy, and it was the same when I worked in local television, hospital radio etc. - but it is so important to get it right for the sake of your visitors and your cash flow (especially at times like these). |
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Derek Smith dereksmith@whitstablepier.com | |
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1:10 PM Nov 25
