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Where does the coal go Mister?
Topic Started: 16 Apr 2009, 11:32 PM (894 Views)
Andrew
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CME, Stackton Tressel Light Railway.
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Hi guys,

Although I don't post here very often (OK, virtual never!) I still browse these forums regularly and I've got a question to ask about an Exmoor built engine at Windmill Farm

Studying images of 'St Christopher' (a beautifully proportioned engine) I notice that unlike other Exmoor engines, it has no coal bunkers. I can't believe that the fire is only fueled when the loco passes a coal pile?
And then it dawned on me, is the coal bunker under the seat? It's probably where I would put it if I were to design the loco. An area of otherwise wasted space on these engines, excepting for maybe a toolbox.

Heres hoping someone from Windmill Farm can shed a little light.

Thanks,
Andrew.
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Keith&Joanna
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Yes indeed you are correct the coal bunker is under the seat on "St Christopher" and works well from what i've seen of her. just don't bend forwards too much to get it out or you'll have toasted hair :lol :lol :lol
Keith.

Derby - UK
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DevilDrummer
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Quite a few smaller gauge engines have coal under the seat, some of the Beer heights railways ones do, at cclr tools and other bits and bobs go under the seat, and on std gauge things like oil cans and tpws/aws equipment is sometimes under seats.
"Humans are so smart, they dont even need a meteorite to destroy themselves, like the stupid dinosaurs did!"

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craiggluyas
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Definitley under the seat. It will hole enough for about 2 days steaming at WFR, about 50Kg of coal (I know as I always end up lifting it in). The worst bit is actually filling it up!

The proportions are indeed quite good, but in actuality she is not really suited to much more than WFR. She has a small boiler, which allows quick steaming but less capacity, and not much water (about 40 gallons which we have to refill during the day. Power wise she has hauled 11 coaches around the line, which includes a bit of 1 in 40.

Craig
WFR
Craig Gluyas

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bvr379
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Two of the Bure Valley Railway's tank engines (#1 & #8) have coal bunkers on the RH rear end of the boiler, over the firebox:

BVR #1 Coal Hole

BVR #8 on right of picture

BVR #9 has a rear bunker.

Best wishes,
David Barnes

Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives.
Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk.
Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018.
Please look up the BVR website, for more details.
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Murray Tremellen
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craiggluyas
17 Apr 2009, 01:08 PM
The proportions are indeed quite good, but in actuality she is not really suited to much more than WFR.
Interesting...has she ever run away from home?
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Andrew
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CME, Stackton Tressel Light Railway.
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Thanks for your answers guys, the coal bunker is indeed as I thought.

Next question about Windmill Farm Railway; and I ask these from only viewing images on the web as I've never visited the line.
Does the railway employ any form of continues brakes?
Looking at the various cab shots of 'St Christopher' I notice that the engine is about as basic as you can get without breaking the law (in this country at any rate).
I can't even identify a steam brake?

I find it odd the Exmoor supply engines that are under boiler-ed? It must only be a question of cost (can't be much though?)
The boiler size is alway easy to identify as although all the smokeboxes on their engines appear good and chunky the barrels are usually considerably smaller in diameter. This, of course, accounts for the same tank engine design hiding the barrel diameter.
Edited by Andrew, 17 Apr 2009, 06:39 PM.
Andrew.
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glastonrail
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Andrew
17 Apr 2009, 06:39 PM
Thanks for your answers guys, the coal bunker is indeed as I thought.

Next question about Windmill Farm Railway; and I ask these from only viewing images on the web as I've never visited the line.
Does the railway employ any form of continues brakes?
Looking at the various cab shots of 'St Christopher' I notice that the engine is about as basic as you can get without breaking the law (in this country at any rate).
I can't even identify a steam brake?

I find it odd the Exmoor supply engines that are under boiler-ed? It must only be a question of cost (can't be much though?)
The boiler size is alway easy to identify as although all the smokeboxes on their engines appear good and chunky the barrels are usually considerably smaller in diameter. This, of course, accounts for the same tank engine design hiding the barrel diameter.
I think what Craig means by 'under-boilered' is that the loco's boiler would be too small on longer or more demanding trips to supply the steam demands of the engine without either having to run at a reduced speed or stopping for 'blow ups', which would be the case most likely at places like Kirklees, Ratty or Romney. I'd like to know how she'd perform at Cleethorpes, though.

As Craig mentions she is still quite powerful (as all Exmoor's are), and by all accounts she seems to be perfect for the job she does, which is providing reliable motive power for WFR.

Cheers,

Dom Greenop
DMR
"There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985
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banksy
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Interesting comments about the boilers of exmoor locos, I spend quite a bit of time down at the romney and on several occasions been able to travel behind St Egwin from Evesham and it has always managed to run between Hythe and Dungeness quite easily admittedly with a shorter train of about 7-8 coaches, it even appears to keep up with normal Romney operational speeds
Edited by banksy, 18 Apr 2009, 11:21 AM.
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Andrew
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Ah,

I would think (looking at photographs) that 'St Egwin' has a somewhat larger diameter barrel than some of the other Exmoor engines, 'St Christopher' being a case in point.

I suspect that it depends what you ask for when placing your order for a loco?
Andrew.
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steves100uk
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Andrew
18 Apr 2009, 11:41 AM
Ah,

I would think (looking at photographs) that 'St Egwin' has a somewhat larger diameter barrel than some of the other Exmoor engines, 'St Christopher' being a case in point.

I suspect that it depends what you ask for when placing your order for a loco?
It will all depend on what you want the loco to do, What you ask for and how much money you want to spend.
Steve
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timbgray64
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banksy
18 Apr 2009, 11:20 AM
Interesting comments about the boilers of exmoor locos, I spend quite a bit of time down at the romney and on several occasions been able to travel behind St Egwin from Evesham and it has always managed to run between Hythe and Dungeness quite easily admittedly with a shorter train of about 7-8 coaches, it even appears to keep up with normal Romney operational speeds
I also spend quite a bit of time driving on both lines (considerably more at Romney. than Evesham), St. Egwin is more than capable of the job on either line

She managed (IIRC) 10 coaches + the Bar Car, from New Romney to Hythe and back, i believe creating the required 24" of vacuum for the brakes was the the only issue

Tim

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craiggluyas
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Sorry Andrew, been away for a few days!

What I mean about St Chris is the boiler is too small really for a run longer than WFR. She has not visited anywhere else and probably won't until the owner sells it (when he is too old to play any more). She is actually fitted with a smaller boiler than designed, the original one going on one of the Exbury locos which basically made the Stirlands more money! This is also why the build took so long, she was ordered before the exbury contract and delivered long after!

As for simplicity, she has everything you need "by law" (to which I'm guessing you mean to appease HMRI, there is no actual law governing what is needed and what is not, just basic guidelines). She has no steam brake, as the hand brake is very fast acting and powerful. Air brakes have been thought about, but are not required at the moment.

We do not have continuous brake at WFR, except on one train. This is not unusual, neither does the 2' gauge West Lancs Railway up the road. We are on Private ground, run slow speeds and carry a guard on most trains. Each train is equipped with a parking brake to hold it as and when and for use by the guard in emergencies.

Hope this helps. If you need any more information on her please feel free to PM me.

Craig

PS - 9 + Bar Car Tim. Video Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB1ZUTd0DT8
Craig Gluyas

Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend.
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bvr379
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"St Egwin" will be visiting the Bure Valley Railway for its "Small Engines Gala" on the 10th & 11th October 2009. For a reminder that Norfolk is not all flat, see: BVR Gradient Profile.

More details about the BVR Gala may be found under MRWF events at: http://s9.zetaboards.com/MRW_Forums/topic/7020678/2/#new

Best wishes,
David Barnes

Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives.
Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk.
Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018.
Please look up the BVR website, for more details.
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Andrew
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CME, Stackton Tressel Light Railway.
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Hi Craig,

Thanks for the info, all very interesting.

As you say, the size of a boiler is only ever a nominal issue. As long as it can provide enough steam for the job required then it is suitable for the job...
The problem comes when you ask the loco to do more than it was built (not necessarily designed) for. It's not always just a case of a boilers capacity to make steam for the cylinders, after a while it will need more water and this is no joke if you've already got the regulator against the stop...
At this point a larger fire in needed necessitating an larger firebox.
It just seems a shame that when 'St Christopher' finaly get a chance to stretch his leg, he'll be winded before he even starts.
Interestingly, I've had a fire so large and 'hot' in a GWR Hall (6998) that it still made steam with the regulator open and both injectors on (one exhaust and one live steam).

As far as I the law is concerned, I was only going on what I understood to be the case for large locomotive boilers.
E.G.
Two independent means of establishing boiler water level.
Two independent safety valves
Two independent methods of putting water in the boiler.

This may not necessarily be law, but it was certainly a requirement as far as the insurers were concerned.
However, I understand that thing are a little different in the miniature world.
Andrew.
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