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| R.&. E.R Super Power; Henry Greenly's Super-Heywood | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 28 Apr 2009, 02:29 PM (2,953 Views) | |
| Simon Moore | 28 Apr 2009, 02:29 PM Post #1 |
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Red Dragon
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I posted this a while ago on the Gn15/Minimum Gauge forum, I did a drawing ages ago of a favourite of mine; Henry Greenly's 1918 proposal for a heavy freight loco for the R.& E.R and with some spare time I reworked the drawing in photoshop and coloured it in N.G.R blue to give something of an artist's impression of what it might have looked like. Just thought some might be interested, I know many are members at the other forum but fior those who aren't, enjoy. The drawings are based the drawing to be found on page 124 of Mark Smither’s book ‘Sir Arthur Heywood and the Fifteen Inch Gauge Railway’. Narrow Gauge Railways Blue ![]() R.&. E.R Maroon
Edited by Simon Moore, 28 Apr 2009, 02:32 PM.
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| glastonrail | 28 Apr 2009, 06:09 PM Post #2 |
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Dommo
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Actually, Simon, that's not too far removed from the original profile of the heavy freight engine that Greenly DID eventually design for the Ratty - 2-8-2 River Esk. Obvious differences are the extra set of driving wheels close to the front of the firebox, smaller driving wheels (assumed), smaller dome, higher pitched longer boiler and inside frames on Esk. Esk, for those who didn't already know, was the first 2-8-2 in the British Isles, so evidently the increase in freight traffic between 1918 and 1922 (when the design was drawn up for a 1923 delivery) warranted the extra driven axle. Thanks for sharing. Dom Greenop DMR |
| "There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985 | |
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| Simon Moore | 28 Apr 2009, 06:35 PM Post #3 |
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I'll post the scaled drawing here too, because this design of loco was actually probably a better bet for heavy work than Esk, being of much larger proportions both in boiler and running gear, not even being constricted to 1/3 scale like Esk, the design being much more akin to Northern Rock.
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| craiggluyas | 28 Apr 2009, 06:39 PM Post #4 |
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Director
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Dom, What Simon is refering to is the 1918 design Greenly did for a heavy goods loco for the Ratty, which by chance is almost identical in most features to how Northern Rock finally came out, if not in outline. The Esk was designed originally as a scale model, but then redesigned to be heavier duty suitable for the granite traffic, and to allow the driver full protection (with the aid of a cab sheet) in the traditional lakeland weather! She was build in 1923. Craig |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| Simon Moore | 28 Apr 2009, 07:23 PM Post #5 |
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That's exactly right, as far as I know the reason the 'Super Heywood' wasn't favoured was it's lack of true miniature outline? Mitchell and Bassett-Lowke were still fixated on running a 'proper' but miniature railway.
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| Murray Tremellen | 28 Apr 2009, 08:48 PM Post #6 |
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Director
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That's what the books I've read seem to imply. One can understand their thinking; there was very little interest in narrow gauge in those days, so they presumably wanted to present a more "main line" image. Now it never occurred to me that River Esk was Britain's first 2-8-2! Funny how 15" often led the way on wheel arrangements, also having Britain's first (and only) 4-8-2s and our second 4-6-2... |
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| BenVincer | 29 Apr 2009, 06:25 PM Post #7 |
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Manager
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Looks like a very interesting looking locomotive. I like it in the NGR livery, suits it well. Are they the highest size plans you have for it? I wouldn't mind having a go at turning it into a 3D model. Ben |
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Ben Vincer MRW Moderator www.bubblesrailways.co.uk | |
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| DevilDrummer | 29 Apr 2009, 06:41 PM Post #8 |
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Director
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Interestingly, she shares alot of cosmetic similarities with the Class 30's (Synolda more so) which were also designed by Greenly. In smokebox, cab, running plate height with change in height at the front of the firebox etc. |
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"Humans are so smart, they dont even need a meteorite to destroy themselves, like the stupid dinosaurs did!" http://devildrummertom.fotopic.net NYMR Fireman - "More in the back end!" | |
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| Simon Moore | 29 Apr 2009, 06:41 PM Post #9 |
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Ben, I'd love to see that if you got round to it! A larger version of the plan can be seen here http://www.gn15.info/wp-content/smplan.jpg |
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| Andrew | 30 Apr 2009, 07:17 PM Post #10 |
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CME, Stackton Tressel Light Railway.
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Is the Haywood valve gear proposed by Greenly? Its difficult to tell what his early ideas for outside valve gear might have been because 'River Esk' was influenced by the builders. He used Walschaerts on the RH&DR but something very odd in the inside of No 7 & 8. |
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| glastonrail | 30 Apr 2009, 08:12 PM Post #11 |
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Dommo
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In WJK Davies' "The Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway", he states that Greenly proposed a series of heavy-freight locos, one of which did employ a modified Heywood gear (he saw its merits as a robust gear for use in the quarries - no sliding parts, robust method of construction, sealed main crank bushing), with over-scale outline. Esk was originally built with Lentz poppet valve gear inside the frames, as you say rightly as persuaded by the builders Davey Paxman, though Greenly did originally specify Walschearts. A case of "I told you so" if ever there was one... ... Dom Edited by glastonrail, 1 May 2009, 07:56 AM.
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| "There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985 | |
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| craiggluyas | 30 Apr 2009, 08:22 PM Post #12 |
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Director
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I think thats actually a bit of artistic licence, the original drawing (on Pg 61 of Peter Van Zellars Fifteen Inch Railways Book) shows no external valve gear at all! More likely to have been Inside Stephensons with rockers like the Class 30's. The drawing also shows a rather horrendous GWR style safety valve! |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| Simon Moore | 30 Apr 2009, 08:47 PM Post #13 |
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It actually states in the Mark Smithers' book on Heywood's railways in the drawings caption that the loco was to be fitted with the 1894 Heywood pattern valve gear that's why I drew it in.
Edited by Simon Moore, 30 Apr 2009, 09:22 PM.
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| craiggluyas | 30 Apr 2009, 08:55 PM Post #14 |
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Director
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Just read that bit and I stand corrected. Bit bizarre why he didn't draw it on then! |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| RichardP | 30 Apr 2009, 09:47 PM Post #15 |
Cleaner
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I've heard it said that Greenley admired the GWR and this explains the Churchward style cab on Esk and Collett style on Irt (before rebuilding in it's current Narrow Gauge style) Don't know whether there's any truth in it. Richard |
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Mitchell and Bassett-Lowke were still fixated on running a 'proper' but miniature railway.
9:17 AM Jul 11