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Theberton Railway
Topic Started: 13 Feb 2012, 03:04 PM (3,600 Views)
Michael Crofts
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Here's a picture that I found yesterday while going through old family papers. It shows the Jennings loco "Lake Shore" at fete at Theberton in Suffolk in the autumn of 1971, Lord help me, that's 40+ years ago. The picture's not very good but it may be the only one of this event in existence so I thought I would put it on here.

I wrote about this engine on another forum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UKminiaturerailways/message/6675
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Attachments: Lake_Shore_at_the_Theberton_Fete_1971.jpg (271.87 KB)
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David Humphreys
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So, which one is you Michael?
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Merlin
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Surely the only reply could be "the handsome one".

Where is Lake Shore now?

mike
Mike Hanson

Rudyard Lake Steam Railway, Nr. Leek in Staffordshire, ST13 8PF

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dereksmith
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Lake Shore is now with a very private owner in Essex - safe but not much seen! I think this was my favourite 9.5" gauge loco when it ran at Danson Park (Bexley). It was nearly worn out after several years on the Sidcup Miniature Railway where it ran as a tank engine (Vere Burgoyne converted it from an Atlantic tender to an Atlantic tank around 1938). Ron Hammett left it that way until the early 50s when he rebuilt it as a tender loco to run in Danson Park after the failure of the 2-8-0. With Kestrel not really powerful enough for anything other than small trains the main pressure was on the 4-6-2 Princess so the arrival of 'Lake Shore' or 'Yankee' as it was known could not come soon enough.

When the Danson line closed in 1962 the loco was sold on to Messrs Woods and Stanier for use on the Brookland Miniature Railway in Sussex, and then eventually to Michael Croft via John Fowles who had regauged it to 10.25. After Michael it had several owners until it ended up in Essex.

I have attached a picture of the loco on the last day it was steamed in Danson Park with Ron Hammett in attendance as a demo for the new owners, and another somewhat earlier shot showing it in splendid isolation outside the shed. The Danson line was a really good affair and it was such a shame it closed. If anyone has any pictures of the line I would be interested to see them.

One last note was the recollection of the 'bag boys' who used to collect the fares - They used to travel perched on the tender and much preferred Lake Shore to Princess as Lake Shore's was much kinder on the rear end!
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Attachments: Lake_Shore_outside_shed.jpg (437.47 KB)
Edited by dereksmith, 14 Feb 2012, 05:47 PM.
Derek Smith
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Murray Tremellen
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dereksmith
14 Feb 2012, 05:32 PM
Vere Burgoyne converted it from an Atlantic tender to an Atlantic tank around 1938.
That must have been a very confined cab, and/or rather tail-heavy?
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John Nicholson
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What is the connection between the engine discussed above and the loco at Lakeshore railroad South Shields. I believe, possibly incorrectly, that one of the engine was four coupled prior to the rebuild by Mike Henderson. The locos visually look very similar and the Lakeshore engine is credited to Burgoyne.

John
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dereksmith
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The Lake Shore Railway loco was built using the chassis of the 2-8-0 which ran at East Ham and briefly at Danson. I believe it had been built (or rather cobbled together) by John Minks in league with Ron Ely at Motor Gear and Engineering. The story is that a new boiler was built for it at Danson in 1950 but the inspector refused to pass it due to problems with the construction - I think it was built by Tommy Goodhand. Ron Hammett decided it would be cheaper to scrap it as it was always a problem with wheel weighting and he instead chose to rebuild the Atlantic Lake Shore. The 2-8-0 chassis passed through several hands before it was turned out in the form seen at the LakeShore Railway. The name is pure coincidence and was adopted for Yankee at Danson as it ran alongside the lake.

I think that as a tank loco it was driven from a driving trailer or by the driver sitting side-saddle on the coal space.
Derek Smith
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johnkerr
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All very interesting to see an actual Jennings steam locomotive as my one never got that far! The story with my Auld Reekie is that Jennings ran out of money when building her and couldn't afford a boiler so shoved in a 1926 Austin 7 engine in! Would like to change that one day though a bit like the changes made to Tracey-Jo now Wroxham Broad. :P Or am I mad?...

John
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peterbryant
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johnkerr
15 Feb 2012, 07:17 PM
Would like to change that one day though a bit like the changes made to Tracey-Jo now Wroxham Broad. :P Or am I mad?...
Yes, you're mad.

Thanks for sharing the photos and history Michael/Derek - I remember seeing the photos of Lake Shore running at Brooklands, it certainly does bare a resembalance to the Lakeshore Railroad locos, by coincidence though!
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colinpeake
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romulus
14 Feb 2012, 11:36 PM
What is the connection between the engine discussed above and the loco at Lakeshore railroad South Shields. I believe, possibly incorrectly, that one of the engine was four coupled prior to the rebuild by Mike Henderson. The locos visually look very similar and the Lakeshore engine is credited to Burgoyne.

John
I'm intrigued by this too, 'ABC Miniature Railways' (1998 ed) gives the two Lakeshore RR loco as built by:

'Mountaineer' 4-6-2 Jennings/Proudlock/Wakefield
'Adelia' 2-6-2 Bell/Burgoyne reb Proudlock/Henderson

Dave Holroyde wrote in 'Small World' (RW April 1998) that the Pacific was a rebuild of a Jennings Atlantic and I must admit I had assumed that this was the loco that was referred to here. Dave also comments that the 2-6-2 was rebuilt from a 2-8-0.

Colin
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MikeH
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Ok. A little back history about the Lakeshore Railroad (South Shields) locos. The AT&SF atlantic 'Mountaineer' was started by Jennings who essentially completed the chassis, platework and tender but, as with 'Auld Reekie', hadn't the money to have a boiler made, though he built a wooden 'horse' on which to assemble the cleading and running boards, etc. After a long hold on the build, the loco was bought in 1966 by Jack Wakefield and Don Proudlock, who built a boiler, generally finished the loco and ran a portable track round the traction engine rallies and other venues from 1968 to 1971, before building the permanent track at South Shields which opened in 1972.

In the early 70's, Jack and Don also bought from Jennings the frames and literally a tea chest of parts of the Burgoyne 2-8-0. Jennings had already planned on a rebuild to a 2-6-2, and the new leading and trailing truck wheels were amongst the parts. Don and I followed the intended change of wheel arrangement, built a new boiler, tender and everything else that was needed and the loco entered service on 25/8/1976.

The following winter (1976-7) we rebuilt 'Mountaineer' into a pacific. It should be noted that the prototype on which 'Mountaineer' was based, AT&SF 3440, was a pacific, the first of the last batch of six-coupled engines that the Santa Fe bought (3440-3449). Jennings wanted to build a model of that particular loco but wanted an atlantic so missed a pair of wheels out. I believe that this is also true of the earlier 'Lake Shore'. However, judging from photos, 'Lake Shore' was a better proportioned atlantic than 'Mountaineer'. Sadly I've never seen the earlier loco in the flesh.

Along with the 2-8-0 parts that were bought in the 70's, there were also another set of frames, built by Jennings, for a Southern Railway (of America) pacific. Once again Jennings had reduced the build to a 4-4-2! This seems to have been a habit of his.

We progressed this loco slowly over the years including changing the wheel arrangement to 4-6-4 to be based on a Wabash Railroad prototype. Work stopped on this when Don Proudlock retired at the end of 1999 and the part-built engine was sold in 2000

Naming the South Shields line Lakeshore Railroad was not a coincidence. While it runs around the boating lake, the name was chosen with more than a nod in Jenning's direction.

To end, may I make a plea? Does anyone have or know of any photos of the 2-8-0 ? I would love to see just how it looked in it's earlier form.
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Michael Crofts
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Amazing. One little (not very good) snapshot of a village fete 40 years ago and off we go into miniature railway history of all kinds. Great fun. Special thanks to Derek for the excellent pictures. The first one was taken by the local newspaper (I have a large print of that) but the second one I have never seen before.
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mattscrutton
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is the aforementioned "Jennings" anything to do with a company/collaboration called "Jennings and Marsden"?
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Ivan
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Amazing. One little (not very good) snapshot of a village fete 40 years ago and off we go into miniature railway history of all kinds. Great fun. Special thanks to Derek for the excellent pictures. The first one was taken by the local newspaper (I have a large print of that) but the second one I have never seen before.

Yep, and also one that I have never really heard much about. Perhaps the unusual 91/2" gauge is part of the reason, but it certainly looks deserving of a visit next time I am in the area.

A side issue now comes to mind though, I have 71/4" gauge models and my sister in law -( who lives in Newcastle - hence my surprise at the Lakeshore revelation) has asked whether I could take my engine up to their area so that they could see it run. My puzzle is this, despite Newcastle being almost the cradle of modern railways there do not seem to be many public 7 1/4" lines, unless you know different............. ?

Cheers, Ivan.
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MikeH
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No public commercial 7¼" tracks but there are club tracks in Exhibition Park, Newcastle (http://www.tsmee.co.uk/), at Beamish Museum (http://www.bmeg.co.uk/ and in Roker Park, Sunderland (http://www.csmes.co.uk/).

The first two are ground level. Roker Park track is elevated with quite tight radius curves.

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