Split: Modelling Steam Locos

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Split: Modelling Steam Locos; Ideas for chassis and power!
Topic Started: 25 Apr 2007, 09:07 AM (858 Views)
colinpeake	25 Apr 2007, 09:07 AM Post #1
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	I've split this topic off from the original thread as it was wandering into new, but very interesting areas. Please continue to discuss potential chassis and pwer units here! Colin andrew blackwell Apr 25 2007, 07:42 AM Sian / Katie is a long term plan for me too Oh heck, I better build two when I eventually get around to it...!! andrew blackwell Apr 25 2007, 07:42 AM Having said that, a static may be like torture. You'd be dieing to see it running through the dunes of Shifting sands. That would be a problem... perhaps the answer would be to commission a chassis built by someone who knows how to build these things and scratchbuild the body. Might be pricey - I'll add it to the list of things to do when I win the lottery (or I might just commision a full size replica!) andrew blackwell Apr 25 2007, 07:42 AM same goes for Little Giant, no chassis small enough as far as i know. Sadly Farish Compound is out on the driving wheelbase by a long way. Interestingly, I have a half-started Class 30 static model, which uses the chassis of the Del Prado plastic model of Flying Scotsman as a basis, ironically if you convert that to an atlantic the length is about right for a class 30/Sutton loco or Barnes atlantic! Whilst I wouldn't think it possible to cut down the Minitrix N model (if you could afford to), it makes me wonder what might be possible in Gn15 using an old Triang A3 chopped down or even the later Hornby motor-in-tender version... but that is definately one for the future!! Colin
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


andrew blackwell	25 Apr 2007, 03:59 PM Post #2
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	Colin, I'd really like to see pictures of that class 30, finished or not. By "static" do you mean unpowered, or does that mean the delprado chassis does not even free running motion ? As to your comments on a Barnes Atlantic, i have had a plan in mind to try an old Minitrix britania chassis, rear driving axle removed. A new front bogie with larger wheels from a farish 4MT matches britannias large drivers better. Farish tender wheels make for a suitable pair of trailing wheels, being sized inbetween the bogie size & driver size. Simplified valve gear, as most of the original can be unpinned. It might be slightly overscale, but then i can "adjust" by using either 1:43,1:48 or 1:50 figures. I'd love to see someone else do it first, so i can avoid their mistakes The idea dawned on me when stripping the damaged valve gear from said chassis i'm using for my Barlow pacific. I'll need to find another non-runner to justify pulling one apart. Haven't the heart (or cash) to chop a good chassis. Andrew



colinpeake	25 Apr 2007, 09:29 PM Post #3
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	andrew blackwell Apr 25 2007, 02:59 PM I'd really like to see pictures of that class 30, finished or not. By "static" do you mean unpowered, or does that mean the delprado chassis does not even free running motion ? Will have to find it then try and get a photo! It is static as in the wheels won't go around, they are in fact moulded together, you'll see what I mean when I get a photo taken... Like your Minitrix plan BTW, would that retain the original drive? Colin
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


andrew blackwell	26 Apr 2007, 07:56 AM Post #4
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	The proposed Barnes chassis would be dependant on tender drive, much like my Barlow plan, as the Minitrix motor is way too large to hide & overhangs well toward the rear. In fact i need to chop off most of the motor mount to get the length right. Andrew



craiggluyas	26 Apr 2007, 09:10 PM Post #5
Director Posts: 2,278 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #46 Joined: October 5, 2006	Sounds like you need one of the old N gauge Lima 4F's. They had 6 wheel tender drive. Or you could use a Farish diesel bogie - come to think of it, if you used a class 20 chassis you could do a Romney pacific!!!
	Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend.


andrew blackwell	27 Apr 2007, 08:16 AM Post #6
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	Craig, Good idea about the diesel chassis for a long wheelbase tender. Thats actually one of my favourite features on the RHDR engines. Another one to add to the list. Not sure about the Lima tender drives. If they're anything like the old Lima 4w diesel, then no chance. They ran lousy. Plus the motor is huge requiring a bulky tender that looks too full of coal. I'd considered either Kato or Avalon 4w chassis with a fake centre axle. Hidden behind frames & axleboxes should do the trick. Or there is the bachmann Plymouth 6w diesel but i don't know what the wheelbase is. Andrew PS Colin, sorry for hijacking your thread!



colinpeake	27 Apr 2007, 10:44 AM Post #7
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	andrew blackwell Apr 27 2007, 07:16 AM PS Colin, sorry for hijacking your thread! Well, I really ought to moderate you all but I'm enjoying the discussions! I think you are right to avoid Lima N gauge stuff completely, not only were the motors poor the flanges on the wheels resembled somthing associated with another Italian passion - a pizza cutter! IIRC the wheelbase of the Bachmann in 23mm (and I'm sure it was you I measured it for!) Problem is the frame is die cast and a lot longer than you would want it. The Avalon route may be better although sadly costlier. What we really need is a drive from a motor in the tender to gears on the driving wheels :rolleyes: As for bogie drives, whilst the Kato short bogie chassis (tiny motor driving one bogie only) is the right sort of size, the one I had took off like a rocket even when weighted down. I also found it wouldn't run at the same controller settings (on an H&M Clipper) as the other locos so off it went to eBay.... The shortest US twin bogie drive chassis are the MP12/SW7 size ones (I think that is what they are called) which would be OK for a RH&DR loco with long tender but oversize for anything else. I have one due to become 'The Cub' in due course. I think this one could run and run.... Colin
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


andrew blackwell	27 Apr 2007, 11:07 AM Post #8
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	Quote: IIRC the wheelbase of the Bachmann in 23mm (and I'm sure it was you I measured it for!) Nah, must've been someone else pestering you! You gave me 28mm as the wheelbase for the Kato tram, but i didn't mention the plymouth at that time cos i didn't know you had one. You must have a pretty deep spares box, with a plan attached to most of its contents, from what i read. Cheers Andrew



andrew blackwell	27 Apr 2007, 11:24 AM Post #9
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	Colin, meant to add this link last time as a supplier of tender drives. A bit beyond my skills for now. The do loads of great parts to build a steamer too, but no pics so best to visit them at a show. Superb quality, mostly in lost wax brass. http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/tmdN.html Andrew



colinpeake	27 Apr 2007, 11:31 AM Post #10
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	andrew blackwell Apr 27 2007, 10:07 AM You must have a pretty deep spares box, with a plan attached to most of its contents, from what i read. :lol: To quote Morgan Freeman, "I've been known to locate certain items..." Mostly at low low prices and all diesel, I'm not harbouring any Minitrix steam loco spares (and you must be making the collectors very nervous!). The Bachmann Plymouth was actually acquired with no project in mind (makes a change!), although I did wonder myself about using it as a tender drive. However if I could get a decent dummy steam chassis my first choice for tender power would probably be the Kato 4w unit, for familiarity purposes if nothing else.
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


colinpeake	27 Apr 2007, 11:34 AM Post #11
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	N Brass make some nice etches to make up steam loco bogies. Had a look at them at a show recently and I'm seriously thinking about getting one for a future steam outline project. Colin
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


chris krupa	2 May 2007, 02:08 PM Post #12
Porter Posts: 23 Group: Member Member #56 Joined: October 27, 2006	an off the wall thought: Thinking of the Chance locos would it be possible to drive an Atlantic from the front bogie and have all the rest just going along for the ride? In 7mm it seems to me that if you did use half a diesel chassis then the motor could easily be hidden in the boiler. You could even, perhaps, simply remove one of the axles from the diesel chassis so that the second bogie provided the rear pony truck. That would depend on the wheelbase of the diesel though. Chris



andrew blackwell	3 May 2007, 01:02 PM Post #13
Guard Posts: 143 Group: Member Member #31 Joined: August 25, 2006	Thats a very interesting idea Chris, but i suspect to do a small, scale loco the diesel mech may be too large to fit within a hollow boiler / smokebox. Of course your idea is superb if we want to model a Chance loco, which would be very unique. Great idea, & pretty easy too i'd imagine. I've a white-metal 009 spark arrested suddenly found a use...... Edit: As such i quickly found these plans to assist anyone wanting to model an example. Not to everyones taste i'm sure, but miniature nonetheless. http://www.chancemorgan.com/graphics/chanp...ngton_Train.pdf Andrew



colinpeake	3 May 2007, 02:29 PM Post #14
MRW Digest Editor Posts: 1,659 Group: MRMT Trustees Member #6 Joined: August 15, 2006	Certainly not to my taste for a couple of reasons, firstly the legroom in the coaches is almost non-existant, OK for kids but not adults! Also I had an interesting experience sat right behind the loco of the Chance train at Flamingoland, the front coach is heated by the engine exhaust blowing through! Not nice on a hot day Chris' suggestion is an interesting one, though I suspect you would have to lose the metal frame of a diesel chassis to get it to work, in the course of doing so losing the weight advantage and (on many split frame chassis) the pick-up path. Perhaps the Kato 'shortie' drive could be chopped up? Colin
	Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor Miniature Railways - Colin Peake's Photos


chris krupa	4 May 2007, 11:38 AM Post #15
Porter Posts: 23 Group: Member Member #56 Joined: October 27, 2006	Continuing this theme but answering Andrew's possible objection, how about Blacolvesley (have I spelt that correctly)? Secondly, having been looking at the Japanese (Kato?) chassis the 009 Society is currently selling, I don't think that they have much if anything below the 'tray' on which the motor and bogies are mounted. There wouldn't be anything to cut away if you needed to add driving wheels between the bogies. You'd need to add weight but I think that there should be plenty of room. The tray might cause problems under a boiler but without having a closer look at one of these chassis with this conversion in mind, I don't know if there would be any difficulty. Chris


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