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| History of BVR loco#1; Tracy Joe / Wroxham Broad BVR #1 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: 13 Aug 2007, 10:49 PM (1,470 Views) | |
| bvr379 | 13 Aug 2007, 10:49 PM Post #1 |
Director
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I have heard various things about the history of the BVR loco#1 "Wroxham Broad" and also read the history of the loco on the Friends of Kirklees Light Railway web site. Guest Engineering built the loco in 1964 for use at Dudley Zoo in the West Midlands. Is this correct? One story that I heard was that she was built to go to a tourist line in the West Indies. Who ordered her? The dates that I have found are: Fairbourne 64 - 66 Dudley Zoo 67 - 68 ?? 68 – 75 Blenheim 75 - 81 Lightwater Valley 82 - Until ? Carnforth ?? - 86. Kirklees 86 - 90 ?? 90 – 92 Bure Valley – new boiler 1992. In the dates above, Dudley Zoo comes after the Fairbourne! Another question is why did she not get a proper boiler until she arrived at the Bure Valley Railway? Was she powered when she left Guest Engineering in 1964? One suggestion was that at some stage she had a “Scout Car” engine. Was this the 3.5 litre Daimler engine mentioned on the Friends of Kirklees Light Railway web site? I’m no expert on road vehicles! She spent sometime on the Romney. Was this when Sir William McAlpine owned her? When was that? But the dates above do not include the Romney! Did she arrive at Kirklees in 1986? Any further information about the history of the locomotive would be greatly appreciated. I’m trying to fill the gaps and get dates confirmed, whilst people may still be around who know. David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| craiggluyas | 13 Aug 2007, 11:18 PM Post #2 |
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Director
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David, She was built as a 2-6-2, it is thought the chassis was a prototype for a longer version of Sian and Katie. At some point it was decided to finish the loco as a tank engine. Why she did not get a boiler i don't know, but she ran with a scout engine (3.5 Ltr) with pre-selector gearbox and parsons marine reverse gearbox. She stayed like this from Fairbourne to Dudley Zoo, then to Romney, then to Blenheim, then as you say. She did run at Bure valley as a diesel loco for some time, sharing duries with Sian (she had a Peugeot engine and hydraulic transmission at this stage) which may account for the missing dates between Kirklees and the new boiler. I have some video of her shunting. 86 seems about right for her leaving Carnforth as the story goes Austin Moss offered £900 for her but was told she was not for sale. Then Brian Taylor bought her weeks after!!! Hence it has always been a sore point with Austin!!! Shame she was rebuilt as a 2-6-4 really!!! Craig |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| bvr379 | 13 Aug 2007, 11:33 PM Post #3 |
Director
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Thanks Craig, 2-6-4 gives more space for the driver, although BVR #8 will remain as a 2-6-2 after conversion from oil to a coal burner. The bunker on #8 will be in a similar position to that on #1 = in place of RH oil tank plus a triangle out of the RH water tank. The LH oil tank will remain in place, but be used for water. David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| colinpeake | 14 Aug 2007, 07:25 AM Post #4 |
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MRW Digest Editor
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Tracey Jo was ordered as Craig says as a 2-6-2 version of Katie andSian, what a sight that would have made. She was being built for Captain Hewitt, who had already bought Katie and planned to build a line around his coconut plantation in the west indies. He died before the 2-6-2 was completed, and as an economy measure (perhaps he didn't have the funds to build a boiler without a customer) Trevor Guest fitted an i/c engine and Vale of Rheidol outline bodywork. She was never a great sucess at Fairbourne, or perhaps they preferred real steam and real diesel outline? After Dudley the loco was stored in Trevor's greenhouse alongside Prince Charles (now Prince William) before they were both sold to McAlpine, who operated the Blenheim line under the Pleasurerail banner as well as involvement at Romney and Carnforth. I think she was still McAlpine owned when loaned to Lightwater Valley - does anyone have any pictures of this? It would be really good to one day see her restored to how she is meant to look, as a 2-6-2 Katie Here's a picture I took back in 1995 at Cleethorpes. ![]() Colin |
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Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor My blog: O9 Modeller | |
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| craiggluyas | 14 Aug 2007, 07:58 AM Post #5 |
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Director
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There are pictures of her at Romney in Model and Miniatures, but I can't remember seeing any at Lightwater Valley anywhere!
Hmmmmm, don't make me think about that Colin!!! I already have the other 2 to measure off, and the patterns exist still............. Craig |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| Murray Tremellen | 14 Aug 2007, 10:44 AM Post #6 |
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Director
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Rails through the Sand, WJ Milner's history of the Fairbourne Railway, contains a complete chronology of Tracy-Jo's history:
I hope that fills in a few of the gaps Incidentally, some pictures of her working at the BVR before rebuilding (alongside the ex-Fairbourne Sian, then still running in American guise as Sydney) can be found on David Enefer's site at http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/bvr/bvr.htm .
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| bvr379 | 14 Aug 2007, 10:51 AM Post #7 |
Director
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Thank you Colin for the info. I was especially pleased to hear about “Captain Hewitt” and the "coconut plantation in the West Indies". At least I now feel happier that I've not been telling fibs to the BVR visitors!
The long term plan was to convert #8 to a tender engine, but until we get a shed extension at Aylsham, stretching any loco is a non starter. David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| bvr379 | 14 Aug 2007, 11:14 AM Post #8 |
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Thank you very much indeed "MuzTrem" for the info. I'm glad I joined this group (only on 12/8/08).:D
I propose to make a summary of all the info. later this year. B) David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| bvr379 | 14 Aug 2007, 02:10 PM Post #9 |
Director
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Here is some more info from BVR staff re #1: The cylinders on No.1 are identical as those on Sian and Katie, with the exception of the improvements made by the BVR a couple of years back to stop valve gear wear. No.1 was originally being designed to burn coconut husk waste when she was to be based on Hewitt's plantation. The photo of No.1 at Cleethorpes in 1995 was a rarity. The track was so bad that the loco spent more time off the track than on it. God forbid she is ever rebuilt as a 2-6-2. The cab is small enough as it is. Also if she became a tender engine she would simply not have enough grunt. She slips now with a heavy load or wet / icy rails. She is a brilliant engine to drive, probably the best on the BVR as a Drivers' engine. One of the current BVR drivers used to go to Lightwater so I'm going to ask him if he has any more info about #1. David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| colinpeake | 14 Aug 2007, 02:24 PM Post #10 |
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MRW Digest Editor
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My memory of Wroxham Broad at Cleethorpes in 1995 was that it spread the track causing the un-regauged 14 1/2" coaches to fall off, promting hasty repairs and regauging. Haven't heard of the loco coming off, but we visited on the Saturday, who knows what happened on the Sunday! The track at Cleethorpes is much improved these days and all the stock 15"... Colin |
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Colin Peake MRW Digest Editor My blog: O9 Modeller | |
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| craiggluyas | 14 Aug 2007, 02:50 PM Post #11 |
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Director
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Hmmm, Thats only down to the amount of weight available. Sian doesn't do too bad (drove her on the Romney, and she can handle 6 on the Ratty) and St Egwin will show what a well build small loco can haul, she certainly inpressed on the Romney!!! Sian weighs about 4 tonnes on the front, anot about 2 tonnes on the tender in running condition. The main problem is that there are as many wheels taking weight off the track as keeping it on! It seems the Bure Valley needs a Very heavy built loco though!!! No 1 can be seen at Cleethorpes on one of Alex's Videos (PM Video). Craig |
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| bvr379 | 14 Aug 2007, 06:43 PM Post #12 |
Director
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How about a tender version of this superheated loco: ![]() David |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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| craiggluyas | 14 Aug 2007, 09:22 PM Post #13 |
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Oh Yes!!!!!
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Craig Gluyas Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend. | |
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| Stuart Ross | 14 Aug 2007, 09:33 PM Post #14 |
Engineer
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From what I remember the Scout Car was a product of Daimler but I could be wrong! Brian Taylor of Shepley purchased the loco from Steamtown and began working on it in his workshop at the same time he was working on Fox in preperations for his 15 inch gauge project which eventually became the Kirklees Light Railway. It was re - engined with the Peugeot engine and rebuilt to hydraulic transmission by Brian. I am not sure if was operable when Brian aquired it. The nameplates did not come with the loco. Its journey across the pennines is somthing of KLR legend and for legal reasons cannot be gone into here! Its use on the KLR was very limited and according to Ian Screeton the KLRs operations manager/cme it did not get any further than half mile post and even in this short distance problems with the hydraulic conversion showed itself up. As such when Fox and the Inspection trolley became available they were more often used on the construction trains. Brian did consider the steam conversion himself and was vey impressed with the quality of workmanship in the cylinders however he had already done the bulk of the construction work on Badger by that stage. When the BVR 1991 company aquired the loco from Brian they did so in desperation and depending who you listen to on the hop vine they did not realise it wasnt a steam loco...I am somewhat suspicous about the last rumour. Tracey Joe as a steam loco would have been an excellent loco for the KLR. It is certainly on the wish list of future visiting locomoives. The cab isn't that small, you should have tried posting yourself into Fox prior to rebuilding to do a 42 mile turn of 6 round trips in July. Incidently bits of Tracey Joe still live on the KLR, noteably its buffers two of which are in use as buffer stops at Shelley station. Hope this adds a bit. |
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http://stuartross.fotopic.net/ www.friendsofklr.co.uk Find us at Facebook to discover more about the Kirklees Light Railway http://www.facebook.com/kirkleeslightrly | |
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| bvr379 | 14 Aug 2007, 09:34 PM Post #15 |
Director
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The above 2-8-0 is an Ian Gaylor design. Ian is now working part time as a designer for the BVR. See the following www for more info about the 2-8-0, which IS NOT a current proposal, but................
http://www.steam-loco-design.co.uk/pages/zb_article_6.html David. |
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David Barnes Bure Valley Railway - The 15" gauge railway with powerful steam locomotives. Trains between Wroxham & Aylsham in Norfolk. Daily services between 24th March and 28th October 2018. Please look up the BVR website, for more details. | |
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Incidentally, some pictures of her working at the BVR before rebuilding (alongside the ex-Fairbourne Sian, then still running in American guise as Sydney) can be found on David Enefer's site at


9:17 AM Jul 11