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Model to Miniature to Narrow Gauge; November Digest
Topic Started: 31 Oct 2007, 10:03 PM (16,327 Views)
colinpeake
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DGH
Nov 4 2007, 01:40 PM
We have had this debate before.

Indeed we have, I have now located it here.

As we are cycling over familar territory, with the same examples quoted, it might be worth continuting discussion in that topic rather than stretching this Digest out over the long term. Tomorrow I will consider whether to move any of the posts in this thread to that one to keep that element of the debate in one place...

DGH
Nov 4 2007, 01:40 PM
I am sure the debate will go on for time immemorial.


I have a funny feeling you might be right :D

Colin
Colin Peake
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My blog: O9 Modeller
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glastonrail
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Dommo
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MickT
Nov 4 2007, 05:28 PM

BUT, if a 7" gauge loco is a stand-alone design in its own right, ie not a model of something else, then I would say it is Narrow Gauge and not a miniature - ergo the Moors Valley/Tinkerbelle designs and the design successors are stand-alone, incorporate their own design features and are not models of anything else - therefore: Freelance.

Mick, you're wrong. The Tinkerbell design is based (loosely) on Heywood's No.4 Katie, but with a bit on the back for the driver to be relatively comfortable.

I think the last five or so posts have been perfect examples of why there is so much confusion. Hell, narrow gauge designs were altered for different gauges they were ordered for, why not miniature engines?

And the Ratty only ever had two proper Basset engines during the NGR era - Sans Pereil and Colossus. They chose the Ratty because it was a great tourist attraction and they wanted something totally different to beach-front railways they already had.

Cheers,

Dom
"There's no such thing as sanity, and that's the sanest fact" M. Knopfler, 1985
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Murray Tremellen
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DGH
Nov 4 2007, 01:40 PM
Who are we to try to change history and the comments made by the makers.

It's funny you should say that, because we were having a discussion along those lines at school today. Well, we were talking about writer's intentions vs. director's interpretation in drama, but it's the same principle.

As soon as a writer commits his words to paper, he loses control over them. The reader (or for plays, the director) can interpret them however they wish, even if their interpretation is not what the author intended.

So with Romney and Ravenglass, we could argue that even if they were originally intended by their "authors" as miniature railways, in fact they evolved to serve "real" purposes - eg. the granite traffic at Ravenglass, or the school train at Romney - and thus, we can interpret them as narrow gauge railways.

But then, if we agree that is up to individual interpretation, we really do have no hope of ever coming up with a definitive answer! :rolleyes:
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AJcoulls
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Pedant mode on...Tinkerbell was actually based by Roger Marsh on the Beyer Peacock works engine "Dot" and then altered to become ride in, rather than ride on. Yes I know I'm sad, but someone had to say it...


I know where I can get an engine...any time I want
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craiggluyas
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I was thinking it Anthony, if it makes you feel better.
Craig Gluyas

Talking to one's self is a sign of madness. I talk to my imaginary friend.
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RichardP
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At the risk of re-igniting the insoluble debate, I was prompted to finally put my 2 penneth in by hearing Pete Waterman on the radion the other day.

He is obviously used to this sort of thing and when asked about his "trainset" effortlessly explaind that as it was 390 feet long model railway was more appropriate.

The answer is you use the terms you are comfortable with, there can be no definitive descriptions if you look at the etymology.
Roughly:
miniature is something of reduced size
model is either a reduced scale copy or
an exemplary example (are the Swiss Railways a model railway? :rolleyes: )

So they are neither mutually exclusive nor equivalent

And when you get to narrow narrow gauge it's all purely relative after all:
The Severn Valley was part of the narrow gauge section of the GWR untill 1892 :)
The South African Railways is Narrow gauge but it's not miniature :)

Of course in Victorian times the Festiniog was called a toy railway.
Which we probably consider this disparaging , but as the definition of a toy is a model or miniature representation, or a plaything; how could we in honesty disagree?

Clearly the forum needs a guidline to define what is relevant, and the 350mm threshold defined in law is important; but in general it's not worth trying to get pedantic about it since you can nearly always come up with a contrary argument.

Here is an example of a Moors Vally loco (Narrow gauge) next to the Britannia (model?) at Eastleigh; nice to see that a 7 1/4" loco that isn't dwarfrd by a 10 1/4

Posted Image

Richard
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