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An independant Scotland?; What are your views?
Topic Started: Dec 3 2006, 08:48 PM (644 Views)
Pokemaniac John
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For example, Wrexham is a MASSIVE town, much bigger than the cities of Bangor and Aberystwyth, and we have tried for city classification for many years, only to be turned down again and again in favour of southern towns.


In theory, if a town has a Cathedral in it, it is a city. Otherwise, it is a town or village. I personally don't have any idea if Wrexham has a cathedral in it or not, and I don't much care.
What exactly is the point in becoming a city rather than town anyway? In my view it's probably usually the mayor having a big ego.
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6underground
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Ahem, I come from the welsh border with england, and to be honest the general feeling is that we are much more akin to Chester and England than we are with the "welshies"


You say that being Welsh is a bad thing? 'tis a great thing! :lol:
Such things are to be expected on the border counties, there will inevitably be those that see themselves more Welsh than English and vice versa.

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South Wales gets ALL the money leaving the north to rot in its own filth. NOBODY speaks welsh in the border country, and all the papers and radio stations are for "Wrexham and Chester" uniting the 2 provinces as if we are one entity.


North Wales, does see investment but, since Wales cannot really pass laws of it's own accord only distribute cash and only recently (the Welsh government hasn't existed that long). These things will take time. Like all strategies, you have to focus on the most populated settlements that hold the most people. Invaribly that's South Wales with a population of some 2 million. Investment in the North will happen, it will just take time.

As for Welsh speakers, you live, as i do in the anglacised south east. There ARE Welsh speakers, they just aren't numerous. This is the result of many factors, which is only just being rectified.

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Where I came from people resented being forced to learn welsh at school.


I too hated learning Welsh in school, it was only a few years later, that i realised i made a HUGE mistake. I have since began to learn Welsh. The language really needs to remain compulsory in school as to protect and turn around the language.

Apart from prejudice, there is no reason not to learn Welsh in Wales.

Quote:
 
For example, Wrexham is a MASSIVE town, much bigger than the cities of Bangor and Aberystwyth, and we have tried for city classification for many years, only to be turned down again and again in favour of southern town


Quote:
 
In theory, if a town has a Cathedral in it, it is a city. Otherwise, it is a town or village. I personally don't have any idea if Wrexham has a cathedral in it or not, and I don't much care.
What exactly is the point in becoming a city rather than town anyway? In my view it's probably usually the mayor having a big ego.


Pokemanic John, pretty much hit the nail on the head. There are many prerequistes for a town to become a city. It's all about what city offers more not, where the city is.
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Boohistory
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I dont see a catherderal in aber....

*searches*

Anyway in this day and age i think its rather antiquated for a city to need a cathederal, after all most of the population is either athiest/never goes to church/not christian
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HRH King Zog II
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You dont need a cathedral
An abbey also counts
For example Bath
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Pokemaniac John
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Can I just ask why everyone is talking about Wales and religion anyway?
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Admin
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The argument sort of swicthed to the issue of Welsh Independance when people realised that there aren't any members here who would argue the case for scottish independance. And I believe the talk of cathedrals is to do with the issue of City Status.
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Ozzymoto
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Aber, although it is a thriving cultural center in what I would call mid-wales :P is far from a city. The population isn't that big (I mean would you call the chav infested Merthyr a city for having a big population :huh: ) and I don't recall there being an Abbey or a Church reffered to as a "cathederal". Equally the Urdd (A welsh company thing that promotes the welsh language with competitions for all ages and activities throughout Wales) did used to be based in Aber, but it was moved to Cardiff. That point about the south muscling out the investment is pretty true in that respect.
Partly because slate, copor, iron; all the things that fueled north wales in the industrial revolution can now be imported from China for two pence a ton :P
I think one thing that NEEDS to happen for a more united Wales is a large railway between the north and south. Going from The south coast to the Llyn peninsula takes around six hours... a long time for such a small country.
Also another reason why north wales is more "Welsh" is it has a more Welsh history. They resisted a lot more while south wales submitted. Owain Glyndwr stabalized the north for many years, also making strong castles and spreading a feeling of a new Wales. Only after years of campaigning did he reclaim south Wales. And then shortly after this he decided to invade England. It could have been a HUGE win for him but the gamble didn't pay off, and the Welsh kingdom fell into decline.
*Takes a breath*
Yep, I'm done ^_^
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plqx
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Quote:
 
I think one thing that NEEDS to happen for a more united Wales is a large railway between the north and south. Going from The south coast to the Llyn peninsula takes around six hours... a long time for such a small country.


there used to be a railway from aberystwyth to fishguard and from pwllheli to bangor... but beeching closed them (along with so many other lines) cos he felt like it they werent used enough. also, in the east there was (and still is) a line that travels in wales most of the way - from llanelli to knighton in wales then into england to shrewsbury then curves back into wales as the line through wrexham (which used to have more railways than it now does - for example there used to be a line to whitchurch i think...) . problem is then it goes out to chester, where you would have to change trains onto the line to holyhead...

getting through wales from north to south by train without going through england is impossible nowadays...
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eriatarka1
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I wish I could share music on this here forum, but I found an excellent band called iLiKETRAiNS, who do in fact like trains, and they've got a rather excellent song called "The Beeching Report" about all of these.

www.iliketrains.co.uk

Lyrics:
is this the price we pay for progress?
Taking 1 step forward, for every 6 we take back
Does your dirty oil stained money make you happy?
Do you just want to be remembered
Book your place in history
you will be

Reform Reform
Oh you are taking apart, what we made with our hands and our hearts
our hands and our hearts are not just tools to ply your trade
there ours to live our life and you're taking them away
so feel free to wrap your hands around my neck
feel free to do the same
feel free to wrap your hands around our necks
feel free to do the same

REFORM REFORM
OH YOU ARE TAKING APART
WHAT WE MADE WITH OUR HANDS AND OUR HEARTS

Mr Beeching i put it to you
You're driving a stake straight through
The heart of this green and pleasant land
Further to this
There's nothing we'd rather do
than to run said stake into your chest

REFORM REFORM
OH YOU ARE TAKING APART
WHAT WE MADE WITH OUT HANDS AND OUR HEARTS

PS roughly in the right place, please don't complain about off topic posts
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plqx
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doctor beeching... the tories idea of a good man to run the railways (in other words he never set foot on a train in his life <--true)
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6underground
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I think one thing that NEEDS to happen for a more united Wales is a large railway between the north and south. Going from The south coast to the Llyn peninsula takes around six hours... a long time for such a small country.


I completely agree, the train service between North and South Wales is beyond contempt.

Quote:
 

Also another reason why north wales is more "Welsh" is it has a more Welsh history.


I completely disagree with you, all of Wales has existed for equally as long, and in that vein, North and South have equal history. The only reason the North is more distinct and more patriotic is because the South was repeatedly number 1 on the shitlist for English invaders. The North offered very little in the way of anything for the English, it was remote and distant in comparison to the south, which was close and held the largest population of Welsh rebels. I mean, if i had been the English monarch, Edward. In pursuit of crushing the Welsh rebellions, it's completely logical to target the largest population and settlements to crush the rebellion.

This is the reason why the North has remained the Welsh cultural heartland, namely because the Southern Welsh repeatedly bore the brunt of English Conquesters. That unfortunately are often picked on by the gogs for "giving in" to easily. If anyone consults a history book on the subject I think you'll find quite a surprise.

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Owain Glyndwr stabalized the north for many years, also making strong castles and spreading a feeling of a new Wales.


Owain Glyndŵr built no castles as i recollect. He took Edward's castles by force in the North and quickly spread south, where Welsh revolters in the South joined his cause. The revolt grew to such an extent that the famed Welsh archers in the English military turned against them during battle against Glyndŵr and Welsh scholars and businessmen headed home to join the cause.

Although in essence you are correct, it was anew Wales in the sense that Owain completely united Wales as one unified nation under one monarch.

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Admin
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Drifting slowly back on topic, what did people think of Gordon Brown's speech the other day? I thought it was a bit much of him to claim that the Tories were ripping the country apart with their "english votes for english laws" stance, seeing as it was Labour who created the situation that allowed scottish MPs to voted on issues that won't affect them...


PS: From my experiance, the welsh train service has been much more reliable than the one in southern England...

PPS: lol at the Beeching report song. :lol:
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Boohistory
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From wrexham to tenby takes like 6 hours on the bloomin' trains! There is not even a moterway, nay a by-pass linking north and south wales so travelling takes forever.
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Savage
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I don't belive Scotland should have it independants because it will weaken the british economy making both Scotland and England poorer, however scotland would loose out more as the majority of the british wealth comes from London.
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Cieran
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I can see this thread gets used alot :|. Anyway, much as I am Scottish, and would be eligable for dual citizenship with both England and Scotland, I don't think it'd be a good idea. If we give Scotland independance, where next? Wales? Northern Ireland? Even Cornwall wants it! So where do we stop? Do we keep getting an increasing number of county countries? It's a slippery slope really...
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