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Grammar Schools Row
Topic Started: May 22 2007, 10:42 AM (613 Views)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6679005.stm

So David Cameron's managed to enrage half his party by declaring that grammar schools are failures and that they just cement class prejudices.

Some critics have claimed that he is just trying to provoke his party and trigger a Tory version of the "Clause 4" moment (when Blair persuaded Labour to abandon clause 4 - their policy of nationalising everything).

So what do you think? Should the Tories abandon their support for grammer schools? Is David Cameron just trying to grab headlines?

Discuss.
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miniyoda008
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I love his claims that the majority of parents oppose grammar schools, which is simply not true.
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Cieran
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I'm opposed to the grammar school system (even though I go to one. The only other option was a school where I would've got the sh*t kicked out of me by people who made my life absolute hell in primary school), just because it's so hierarchical. Why is it that some students languish in places like comprehensives whilst others get the best treatment possible at grammars? It's just unfair. They're not even for the clever people any more, they're for those who can afford to coach their students to pass verbal reasoning. My brother didn't get into my school, and as a result has to go to one of the crappiest schools around, because they upped the pass mark because of all the people who had been coached. Mind you, my Tory driver in the morning was pretty enraged when his massively coached daughter didn't get in :P...
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HRH King Zog II
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Whats the point of coaching children to get in? Grammar schools are based upon a certain degree of natural ability to work correctly. Its not supposed to be a contest of whos parents could afford the best private tutor. Class only got involved due to petty upper middle class families looking for another status symbol.

Its the parents at fault not the schools
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Personally, I think that the main reason that grammar schools are becoming less representative of society as a whole is because there are hardly any of them left, so demand for them will obviously be higher.

Hmmm, I wonder whether David Cameron will take his new found desire for an end to schools that embody class differences even further and suggest that his Party opposes Private Schools? Somehow I doubt it... :rolleyes:
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Inevitable
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HRH King Charles III
May 22 2007, 02:15 PM
Whats the point of coaching children to get in? Grammar schools are based upon a certain degree of natural ability to work correctly. Its not supposed to be a contest of whos parents could afford the best private tutor. Class only got involved due to petty upper middle class families looking for another status symbol.

Its the parents at fault not the schools

So basically you're saying that the people who don't need the help, get the help?

Though it is sort of fair, no one wants an intelligent chav now do they?

But I agree with Cameron's view. Grammar schools do create an unecessary class prejudice.

One thing I don't quite know... are Grammar Schools the same as what are known as Public Schools, but should really be called Private Schools (ie. you pay lots of money)?

If they are, or aren't, it doesn't matter. "Public" Schools are the real problem. Universities like Oxford and Cambridge may get two students applying for the same course. They're both from the same sort of area and both have the same AS Levels and predicted grades for A2. In fact, the "Public" school student could have predicted grades just below that of the other. They have to reject one. Who do they pick? The REAL Public school student, rather than the "Public" School one. Why? Because they're snobbish. Private Schools get in to those "old" universities easier. Now tell me that's not class prejudice?
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Public school = Privately owned school, independant of the government, pay to get in.

Grammar school = State owned school, pupils have to pass a test to get in.
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Inevitable
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So Public are worse then.

Though Grammar schools are pretty bad too, I'll admit.
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Sheepling
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Um... what's the problem with Grammar schools again?

Seriously, it is entirely to do with your ability to learn whether or not you get into a grammar school or not, not your money or social status or any bull like that. If you aren't able to handle the workload at a grammar school you SHOULDN'T want to. You'd struggle to survive. You're better off learning somewhere where you can learn at a level you're capable of. If all schools were the same, the weaker students would struggle and the students of a higher ability would shrivel up and die.
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Boohistory
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I think everyone should go to the same crappy state school which i went to. If I had to go through it everyone else should. That or like a battle royal system..... :boo:
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BTW Boo, I've been meaning to ask you - what's with the sig?

@Sheepling: "If all schools were the same, the weaker students would struggle and the students of a higher ability would shrivel up and die." - I entirely agree. Unfortunately it seems that some politicians would rather use social engineering to try and make everybody exactly the same...
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Boohistory
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the sig is AE

and i hate the fact that some rich kids get better educated. and what are they going to do with their "special" education at the end of it all? go to the same universities that the rest of us have to go to, although most likely "daddy" will pay for their fees.

Ftl
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Sheepling
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Boo's sig is the posh monacle wearing man from the 'I Made This by Bob' cartoons on Weebl's Stuff with AE written on his hat.

And Boo, lol I'm not rich and I go to a grammar school.
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Boohistory
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ugh
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HRH King Zog II
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I'm with sheepling on this one
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