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The Ostentian Democrat Party
Topic Started: May 18 2008, 02:34 PM (1,049 Views)
Cieran
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We do not see Ostentia as ready for a fully fledged communist system yet. Communism does not happen over night, it happens gradually over time. First capitalism will be done away with. IMO capitalism is just a quick fix to things, sure it gets things done in the short term, but has little interest in the long term. Look where capitalism has gotten the world at the moment. And before you trot out the USSR, there are a number of reasons why that isn't a very good example. It was isolated and ostracised by the capitalist nations, it was too authoritarian (true communism has no government at all), and Marx himself did not see Russia as ready for communism yet.

Also, consider this, if the UK Communist Party became head of government, I'm sure they wouldn't immediately nationalise everything, abolish money and then get rid of government. For one thing they'd have to go through Parliament, which is the issue we see here. We're in a minority, so we have to compromise. I believe that humans ARE capable of realising a communist society, but we're conditioned by the capitalist system to believe that it's not possible.

Also, CC0, tbh, Inevitable's not very communist in the first place. He's only a communist because Boo is. Tbh, the Boo Party is more a Boo Party than a Communist Party...
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Inevitable
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Commoncold0
May 18 2008, 08:36 PM
As for the capitalist bit... tell me Inevitable, how is the redistribution of Ostentia's wealth going? Exactly how many industries have you nationalised during all the Boo Party's terms in office? Are we any closer to doing away with government altogether and living in communes?

Look in the mirror. Capitalism is merely a reflection of mankind's selfish nature. A political system which attempts to deny this is doomed to failure.

http://mock-parliament.wikia.com/wiki/Evil_Capitalist

Quote:
 
Evil Capitalist is a political slur regularly used by members of the Boo Party to describe their opponents. Although originally only applied to Commoncold0, it has been extended to any politician which critcises or opposes any aspect of Boo Party policy. Excessive use of the phrase has effectively rendered it meaningless.
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Commoncold0
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So Communism can only work if everyone agrees to go along with it?

Not going to happen. As I said, people are selfish. It's a basic human instinct - and it was around a long time before anyone dreamed up the idea of capitalism. Communism could only work with if independant thought was eliminated. And if that happened, we would cease to be human anyway.

Quote:
 
Inevitable's not very communist in the first place

My point exactly. He's capitalist, as is the Boo Party.
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Inevitable
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Your lies fall on deaf ears.

Where is the evidence I am capitalist?
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Commoncold0
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Inevitable
May 18 2008, 10:07 PM
Your lies fall on deaf ears.

Where is the evidence I am capitalist?

The fact that the economy is doing well while your in power proves that you can't be communist. :)
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Cieran
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Commoncold0
May 18 2008, 10:04 PM
So Communism can only work if everyone agrees to go along with it?

Not going to happen. As I said, people are selfish. It's a basic human instinct - and it was around a long time before anyone dreamed up the idea of capitalism. Communism could only work with if independant thought was eliminated. And if that happened, we would cease to be human anyway.

Quote:
 
Inevitable's not very communist in the first place

My point exactly. He's capitalist, as is the Boo Party.

You believe that because you have been brought up in a society which has taught you that communism is bad. We live the life of luxury because of capitalism, so we're naturally going to feel predisposed towards it. We are conditioned to believe that it's the best way and that communism won't work. I for one, believe it will. But not yet. The time is not yet right for communism, and will not be right for a long time. None of us will live to see the inevitable communist society...
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Commoncold0
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Cieran
May 18 2008, 10:09 PM
Commoncold0
May 18 2008, 10:04 PM
So Communism can only work if everyone agrees to go along with it?

Not going to happen. As I said, people are selfish. It's a basic human instinct - and it was around a long time before anyone dreamed up the idea of capitalism. Communism could only work with if independant thought was eliminated. And if that happened, we would cease to be human anyway.

Quote:
 
Inevitable's not very communist in the first place

My point exactly. He's capitalist, as is the Boo Party.

You believe that because you have been brought up in a society which has taught you that communism is bad. We live the life of luxury because of capitalism, so we're naturally going to feel predisposed towards it. We are conditioned to believe that it's the best way and that communism won't work. I for one, believe it will. But not yet. The time is not yet right for communism, and will not be right for a long time. None of us will live to see the inevitable communist society...

I think, Cieran, that this argument is pointless. You have clearly hold a view that you are unprepared to change.
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Inevitable
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Cieran
May 18 2008, 09:09 PM
The time is not yet right for communism, and will not be right for a long time. None of us will live to see the inevitable communist society...

*chuckles*
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Cieran
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Commoncold0
May 18 2008, 10:14 PM
Cieran
May 18 2008, 10:09 PM
Commoncold0
May 18 2008, 10:04 PM
So Communism can only work if everyone agrees to go along with it?

Not going to happen. As I said, people are selfish. It's a basic human instinct - and it was around a long time before anyone dreamed up the idea of capitalism. Communism could only work with if independant thought was eliminated. And if that happened, we would cease to be human anyway.

Quote:
 
Inevitable's not very communist in the first place

My point exactly. He's capitalist, as is the Boo Party.

You believe that because you have been brought up in a society which has taught you that communism is bad. We live the life of luxury because of capitalism, so we're naturally going to feel predisposed towards it. We are conditioned to believe that it's the best way and that communism won't work. I for one, believe it will. But not yet. The time is not yet right for communism, and will not be right for a long time. None of us will live to see the inevitable communist society...

I think, Cieran, that this argument is pointless. You have clearly hold a view that you are unprepared to change.

But the same is obviously true of you. Of course I'm open to change. I openly admit that I don't think communism will work in our current society, as much as you do...
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Commoncold0
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Cieran, I am fully aware of how bad a system capitalism is. I have no doubt that in the end, it will destroy human civilisation.


At the end of the day, it boils down to faith. You have faith in mankind's ability to save itself. I don't. And as faith isn't something that can be gained or lost in an argument, I doubt that either of us is in a position to change the other's mind.
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Boohistory
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:o

Capitalism? communism? faith?

To the Boomobile!!!!

As i am a historian, i will use the tools of my trade :starcap:

Right now that we are all here I shall begin. When humans first started to crawl out of caves and into huts, there was no money. there was no national government. people swapped their goods, for other peoples stuff in return. Each society had either a king (meh cant always be right) or a council. This system worked just fine until the Romans came along and ballsed everything up. But to be fair even the romans rebelled against their corrupt monarchal system and created a lovely senate in its place *cough Julius cough*
During the Spanish Civil war (for those of you who dont know, it was a war of communism vs the extreame right, if you wish to read up on this fasinating period see HERE) quite a few villages abandoned money and started a pacifist communist system. It was all great until Stalin found out and muredered everyone horribly. "My way or the highway" indeed.
We may no longer be in that period of social upheaval that was the early 20th century, and yes tellivision has all but removed productive thought from the masses, but if petrol prices rise any more there WILL be a communist take over :ph43r:

Love from Boo

xxxx

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Commoncold0
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My point exactly. The communist system didn't work because not everyone was prepared to go along with it. :)


Anyways, can we get back on topic?
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Lewis
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Commoncold0
May 19 2008, 10:34 AM
My point exactly. The communist system didn't work because not everyone was prepared to go along with it. :)

GAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! **steam comes out of ears**

Nothing gets on my tits more than "Communism doesn't work". It's the most ignorant and worst thought out cliché in politics.

People don't think what "work" means. For something to sork it has to achieve it's goals, nothign achieves it's goal, so to accuse something of being rubbish as it doesn't work is just to state the obvious of any political system. Nothing "works", Communism is actually very successful, it's just that in most major circumstances the western media has lied about it, has purged it with trade embargos and funded terrorism against it. **breathes in** -_-

Sorry about that, that one phrase does seriously annoy me. Communism "works" just as much as anything else. it is an ignorant view to say that communism doesn't take human needs and desires into account, I have read some of Marx's work and he set out for the needs of Society to go HAND IN HAND with induvidual needs. Capitalism merely seeks the needs of the upper classes to be fulfilled by telling some people that they are better and making society accept lies and disguising it as "culture". (I'm not a communist, but I agree with a lot of views, I personally am a Socialist)

Anyway, back on topic... Will this party be standing for the next eleciton then?
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Inevitable
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Lewis
May 19 2008, 05:34 PM
Anyway, back on topic... Will this party be standing for the next eleciton then?

Sadly, yes.
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Commoncold0
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Quote:
 
Communism is actually very successful, it's just that in most major circumstances the western media has lied about it, has purged it with trade embargos and funded terrorism against it.

Exactly my point. It doesn't work because not everybody wants it to work. ;)



Anyways, yes, this party will be standing in the next election. :)
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