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DSP Position on War
Topic Started: Aug 13 2008, 04:54 PM (419 Views)
Cieran
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Should-like-totally-be-the Prime Minister
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The DSP would like to affirm its commitment to oppose any interventionist action in Democratia by the government, and urges restraint. While we acknowledge that the invasion of a sovereign state by another is most certainly a bad thing, we believe it is a position for others to sort out, there are other more pressing matters relating to Ostentia itself...
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HRH King Zog II
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Okey dokey

*invades Georgia*
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Cieran
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We favour a non-interventionist policy. Why should we send our own men and women off to die for a failstate thousands of miles away? Their purpose there would be to fight, to kill Autocratian soldiers. Other people's children, parents, brothers, sisters. Is not a conquered Democratia better than a Democratia at war?...
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eriatarka1
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Cieran
Aug 13 2008, 06:20 PM
We favour a non-interventionist policy. Why should we send our own men and women off to die for a failstate thousands of miles away? Their purpose there would be to fight, to kill Autocratian soldiers. Other people's children, parents, brothers, sisters. Is not a conquered Democratia better than a Democratia at war?...

You're great at this foreign affairs malarkey, aren't you?

I mean, a "failstate"; regardless of the validity or otherwise of your opinion[ated] view on Democratia, to condemn this country forthwith and disavow our links therewith is a mistake of the most wretched order.

And on your emposited rhetoricised question - "Is not a conquered Democratia better than a Democratia at war?..." [which ungrammatical punctuation undermines rather than undergirds your oratorial attempts at prowess] - you are of course entirely incorrect.

Obviously there is information to which only the Cabinet council is privy about the threats of neighbouring superpowers, and therefore you cannot be entirely at fault for not recognising the problematic position in which we now find ourselves, but should Democratia be invaded
CONTINUE 1) ? Clearly not by anyone, and certainly not by us.
CONTINUE 2) then there would be no doubt as the how far in the wrong the superpowers are.


FOR CiERAN/HRH's benefit:

Your post was incredibly undiplomatic, criticising Democratia in such a harsh manner.

Democratia would obviously be best not at war or conquered, but bearing in mind it currently appears that those are the only two probable consequences, considering the overwhelmingly strong position Autocratia would find itself in, we must prefer Democratia at war. Read also plqx's post below.

Autocratia were wrong, but we shouldn't invade either.

So I actually agree, but you show how clearly unsuitable a PM you would make.
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Cieran
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Right, from what I can tell from your post which seemed to spend more time picking at grammar and making pretentious remarks than actual points, you are saying it's bad of me for calling Democratia a failstate, bad for saying it'd be better conquered, and something else which I can't make head nor tail of.

Democratia IS a failstate. It's a fraction of its original size, the government is undemocratic and has imposed martial law, and it's constantly shelled by Autocratia. Doesn't exactly say it's vibrant and healthy does it?

By saying it would be better conquered, what I mean is there will be no more killings. No more destruction of infrastructure. No more fear of death from the populace. If the country is at peace with itself then it is highly unlikely that there will be more fighting (aside rebel groups of course). It can get back to repairing itself.

I'm not saying that Autocratia invading Democratia is right. I believe ALL invasions of sovereign nations are wrong and unjust. What I'm saying is, if we then invade them to "keep the peace" we'd be wasting our own manpower. We should pursue a non-interventionist policy, and take war off the table...
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HRH King Zog II
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Cieran
Aug 13 2008, 08:43 PM
By saying it would be better conquered, what I mean is there will be no more killings. No more destruction of infrastructure. No more fear of death from the populace. If the country is at peace with itself then it is highly unlikely that there will be more fighting (aside rebel groups of course). It can get back to repairing itself.

War doesn't mysteriously go away overnight. There will be harrasment and mopping up for years in the future.

Your argument boils down to rather Autocratia deal with these problems in Democratia than us in Autocratia.

And I had no idea what Eria said either
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Cieran
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What it boils down to is, it's not our war, let them deal with it...
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plqx
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Cieran
Aug 13 2008, 07:43 PM
By saying it would be better conquered, what I mean is there will be no more killings. No more destruction of infrastructure. No more fear of death from the populace. If the country is at peace with itself then it is highly unlikely that there will be more fighting (aside rebel groups of course). It can get back to repairing itself.

Who is to say that the Autocratian government won't repress, and perhaps kill, those in the regions that are currently Democratia, even after they succeed in conquering it?

And there will almost certainly be some sort of insurgency set up.
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Cieran
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But they're not going to be shelled out of their buildings or blown up uncontrollably are they? I'm sure that violence will decrease. Of course it's not going to disappear, and will still be very prevalent, but I can't see it getting any worse. And what would be the rational behind killing Democratians? They both have a similar political system, they're the same people, they occupy the same island, and fifteen years ago were together as one happy country...
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eriatarka1
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One man's pretension is another man's fish.

In other words, for my post beforehand, I was actually mostly agreeing with the fundament of your points, but pointing out that if you were in power your foreign affairs would be absolutely all over the place.

You simply cannot condemn a country who really is on our side as a failstate. It's just so undiplomatic it's unbelievable.

No to us intervening, but in absolutely no way is Democratia in the wrong, or are either Autocratia or the war itself at all condonable.

If you'd like, I can rephrase my previous post so you can understand it :)
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miniyoda008
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Cieran
Aug 13 2008, 09:12 PM
But they're not going to be...blown up uncontrollably are they? (edited for conciseness)

*cough* Iraq *cough*
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Cieran
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Iraq fell to pieces because America broke the iron grip of Hussein and failed to guard the Baghdad weapons dump in the days following "Mission Accomplished". There were no police on the streets for weeks. Here we're simply replacing a grip with a tighter grip. You can't say that just because it happened in Iraq it would happen in Democratia.

Plus that's HIGHLY hypocritical, as Iraq was CAUSED by unnecessary foreign intervention...

EDIT: And here we go with the mudslinging. Just because I favour a non-interventionist policy wouldn't make me a bad PM -_- . Your very own PM favours non-intervention as far as I know. By calling Democratia a failstate I was not condemining it. I was stating a fact. Democratia IS a failstate. It's not a good thing. Neither is Autocratia's invasion. Neither is any of this, but it's the way things are, and why is it up to us to fix it? Should we be the world's police force?...
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sqeak
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YAY WAR!
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HRH King Zog II
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sqeak
Aug 14 2008, 01:27 AM
YAY WAR!

Yay! Intra-Party Hypocrisy!
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sqeak
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HRH King Zog II
Aug 14 2008, 03:15 PM
sqeak
Aug 14 2008, 01:27 AM
YAY WAR!

Yay! Intra-Party Hypocrisy!

That was the point. :P
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