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| Wii discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2006, 08:31 AM (13,645 Views) | |
| alxbly | Feb 18 2009, 03:27 PM Post #451 |
Ancient
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Elebits - alright, nothing special. Harvest Moon Magical Melody - won't matter, this was a PAL-only release. But if you're considering buying it for Gamecube (it came out on Gamecube in the US) then I'd say go for it. It's quite similar to Harvest Moon 64, although take that with a pinch of salt because I've only played either of those games for about half an hour each. Links Crossbow Training - basic but good fun. It doesn't feel like a Legend of Zelda game at all (maybe why Zelda isn't in the title) because there are levels you need to complete then get scored on. There's no story, just Zelda themed levels. Worth a shot. No More Heroes - Brilliant. Great fun, wacky, japanesey, funny and has good controls. It's one of the best Wii games I've played. Buy it now. Okami - an excellent adventure game, kinda like the Zelda games but with it's own unique style. Also worth buying. Super Paper Mario - Meh. Doesn't feel like the other games, got kinda bored after a while.  Trauma Center - amazing fun. It's got that "pick up and play" immeadiacy that a lot of Wii titles do but this one is genuinely challenging. And it's quite unique. 
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| niniendowarrior | Feb 18 2009, 04:51 PM Post #452 |
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Dead Space Extraction for the Wii: http://wii.ign.com/articles/954/954895p1.html I think it might turn out pretty good. But as you can see, fickle minded gamers are again at arms because it's not the first person shooter they expected. Whatever... I'm getting this game. Looks pretty solid. Edited by niniendowarrior, Feb 18 2009, 08:55 PM.
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| alxbly | Feb 18 2009, 05:33 PM Post #453 |
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Guess they're peeved because... well, the Wii isn't exactly short of on-rail shooters. Anyway, I was gonna post this but it doesn't say much more: http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/18/ea-announces-dead-space-extraction-for-wii-coming-this-fall/ I guess you can count me in as one of the disappointed because I was expecting EA to take the Wii seriously. Isn't this just dumbing down of the existing franchise to give it "mass appeal"? I've never played an on-rails shooter that's had me completely engrossed; it's difficult to be involved to that extent when you don't know, or have any control over, the direction in which your character will turn. To me, they always feel like arcade games or, dare I say it... novelties. Anyway, Dead Space Extraction certainly looks nice in IGN's video. I'll wait to see what the final game looks like, though. And, more importantly, how well it plays. |
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| niniendowarrior | Feb 18 2009, 08:54 PM Post #454 |
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Talk about judging the book by its cover. The game isn't done and people are peeved and pissed. If the game is a shoddy cash in, I will be the first in line to berate it, but this is just way too early. It's a different game under the same brand. Folks, give it a chance. I'm glad that you are on the wait and see group, alxbly. Some people just won't give it a chance. Just read through the IGN comments. EA has not made a critical mistake until they decide put out a crummy product. I'm hoping the majority of gamers have more rational sense to wait and see if the game is actually good. And, IMO, this isn't dumbing down the experience. It's a different game, period. They are extending the franchise beyond the original design. If they pull out a great game, bless them. Edited by niniendowarrior, Feb 18 2009, 08:59 PM.
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| Mop it up | Feb 19 2009, 02:49 AM Post #455 |
Forum Urban Legend
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I'm having another sleepless night, so bear with me on this post as it isn't entirely focused. Now, this isn't a game that I myself have any interest in, and neither is the original Dead Space. From what I have seen, the problem with this game being a spin-off is that the original was not released on the Wii. To me, this seems like a very logical reason to be angered over. When Dead Space was announced for Wii, we all figured it would either be an enhanced port of Dead Space, or it would be the sequel to it. What we are getting is an on-rails shooter which doesn't seem to contain the elements which made Dead Space something unique. The problem here, is that the majority of the Wii userbase have likely never even heard of Dead Space, much less played it. Therefore, this being a Dead Space game likely won't pique their interest, and it could go under a different title and still be just as successful. The connection means nothing because they have no experience with the original. Why would anyone care about playing a spin-off to a game they've never played before? This is comparable to Nintendo announcing for some bizarre (obviously fantastical) reason that they're going to release a Mario game on the XBox 360. You hear this announcement and you're likely to think it's going to be a Mario platformer -- say, Super Mario Galaxy -- but instead they release a Mario Party. The majority of the XBox 360 userbase have likely never played Super Mario Galaxy, so they're not going to be any more interested in a Mario Party game as they would be, say, Fusion Frenzy. And why should they care? They were never given the "proper" game in the series to begin with, they have no experience or connection with it. Even the logic behind this release from a business standpoint is flawed. If this game sells well, will we see Dead Space 2 on Wii? The game company still won't have any more indication than they do now as to whether or not the game will sell, because sales of this spin-off game aren't a very accurate indicator. Did it sell because of the Dead Space name or because of the type of game that it was? Since it is a different type of game, how can they use it to gauge the potential success of Dead Space 2 on Wii? Would that same audience still be interested in Dead Space 2 even although it's a different type of game? With no knowledge of the game itself, this is merely my observation on people's reactions. But this does bring us back to a very interesting question which we've discussed before: Why aren't game companies putting there best efforts on Wii? As I see it, these spin-offs have little to do with financials but instead are generally the result of either laziness, semi-interest, hesitancy, or a combination of all three on the part of developers and possibly publishers. Wii has received quite a few spin-offs such as the likes of Soul Caliber, Castlevania, Resident Evil, etc. because of this. There seem to be a lot of developers and publishers that still prefer PS3/360 and would like to ignore the marketplace dominance of the Wii, but it would seem to me that they are becoming increasingly worried as the economy worsens but Nintendo's profits rise. Therefore, the people in charge of these companies see the money that the Wii could potentially generate, but the actual developers' laziness, semi-interest, hesitancy, or all three leads to such often times halfhearted spin-offs and ports. But why do these developers have this attitude toward the Wii? My speculation would be that many game developers are stuck in a sort of tradition. Their instinct lies in making games more complex and having better graphics through new and greatly expanded technology, and it has led them to pledge their support for the extreme technological advancements of the 360 and PS3. Wii seems to spit in the face of this would-be established tradition, and while it has been number one for a little over a year now, that's not much time compared to the three decades of game companies nurturing the now-traditional mindset of gaming. Then there is us, the gamers. We are simply consumers, but we come in essentially two different forms. Those of us who have been around through the evolution of gaming share this same selfish ideal of what "traditional" gaming should be. Those new to gaming, however, have no experience and no knowledge of any of the currently established fundamentals of gaming. They have no perception of what gaming should be, and hold little expectations. In other words, it's easier for these newer gamers to acknowledge, adjust to, and embrace the Wii than it is for many longtime gamers and, more importantly, game companies. My guess is that it'll take more time than we think for the majority of developers and publishers to shift their focus to the Wii. Unfortunately, the shift might come about from older companies closing down, and new, "Wii friendly" ones taking their places. We can but wait and see. What's interesting is that this shift has happened once before. When the NES was launched, current PC gamers felt its games were too simplistic, that Nintendo was "dumbing-down" gaming. PC games were usually adventure-based, text-heavy, graphically more advanced, and relatively complex. Super Mario Brothers had practically no text and was extremely simple in design (go right until you reach the goal). Yet now, those of us who were raised on these very games are now the ones complaining, yet again, that Nintendo is "dumbing-down" gaming. The problem here, of course, is that as gaming has evolved, it has gotten to the point where it once again became entirely too complex for anyone without gaming knowledge to embrace. Perhaps this shift is one which must simply take place every twenty years or so; if new customers are never introduced to gaming, surely the industry would eventually dissipate into nothing. If this post makes an ounce of sense I'm going to bake myself a pie. |
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| alxbly | Feb 19 2009, 01:17 PM Post #456 |
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I don't think it's laziness, it's more like pandering to what they see as the Wii demographic. Make it simple and it might sell, that kind of thinking. In this case (and the same applies to all the spin-off's you mentioned) it seems like they want a game that appeals to both the hardcore and casual markets (forgive me for the over-used and inaccurate gamer stereotypes) because "Hardcore" isn't where the Wii sales are. This middle line gives the game that mass market appeal I mentioned in my last post; hardcore name married to casual gameplay. Or as I describe it: 
Tradition doesn't bode well in the current economy. I think publishers are more wary of the Wii because Wii makes big bucks for Nintendo but not so much for third parties. They need to directly compete with Nintendo, and it's a battle that Nintendo have won hands down so far. The Wii attach rate is.... *one quick internet search later* about 5 or 6 games to each console. Assume that the games that are most likely to be bought are the Wii top-sellers (a fair assumption, I'd reckon) and then look at what the top ten Wii games are: Wii Sports Wii Play Wii Fit Mario Kart Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl Super Mario Galaxy Mario Party 8 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Link's Crossbow Training Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Now factor in the high turnover or Wii games (shovelware snowstorm, aaargh, I'm blinded) and you can see why it might be difficult for third parties to get their products noticed. Unless they feature Mario and Sonic.  Wii makes a lot of money for Nintendo. And that's why their not really much bothered by third parties. But why should Nintendo be bothered when their own games sell in the tens of millions and they make a profit from the console? 
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| Mop it up | Feb 19 2009, 07:27 PM Post #457 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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I listed three things: laziness, semi-interest, and hesitancy. Pandering to what they see as the Wii demographic is semi-interest, hesitancy, or both. Also, keeping it simple doesn't necessarily mean dumbing-down a game, nor does it mean a developer's full effort can't still be applied. However, most developers aren't experienced creating these types of games which is what leads to their halfhearted attempts and general apathy toward them. It'd be like if I tried to draw a square without knowledge of how to make a right-angle. By the way, I myself prefer the terms "upstream market" and "downstream market" which I have seen recently. It makes some sense.
That's why publishers aren't embracing Wii, but I'd guess for developers it's different. Developers don't care about economics, they're the ones who make the games. It seems to me that developers don't want to put their best efforts on Wii because they want to harness the immense power of the 360 and PS3. Wii is a little different than what many developers are used to working with.
Never putting in their best efforts and instead making halfhearted spin-offs and ports is clearly the best way to compete with Nintendo. This is obviously a point we don't agree on: the "hardcore" games need to exist first before the gamers will follow suit, but the market will be there eventually if it isn't already hiding there. I hope that Wii Sports isn't included in the attachment rate ratio, as that will lesson what the actual ratio is. In any case, you make it sound like the Wii top-sellers are the only games on Wii which actually turned a profit. Wii isn't the XBox 360, games don't need to top the sales charts in order to make a profit. Nintendo isn't the only one churning out million-sellers either, as 30 third-party titles have shipped a million units worldwide. That number increased by 18 over the nine months prior, showing that third-party title performance is improving -- and could grow even further if developers put their best effort on Wii games. One important factor is still missing: Of all the Wii games released, how many turned a profit? We'll never know. I've seen that .gif before and I still love it.
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| alxbly | Feb 21 2009, 10:50 AM Post #458 |
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Ancient
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Actually, we have the same perspective. I think there is a demand for "hardcore" games on the Wii, but there is a much bigger market for "casual" games. Developers and publishers are trying to target the biggest market they can, that's why the Wii has numerous "hardcore" franchises which are spin-offs with simplified controls, so that they appeal to both groups.
That's not what I'm trying to say, nor do I say anything like that in my last post. I'm sure that there's money to be made on the Wii, if there wan't there would be so many games being released for that system. The point I was trying to convey is just how much Nintendo dominate software sales on the Wii, and that if the average person really does only buy five Wii games, it's highly likely that the majority of the games they buy will have been developed and published by Nintendo.
Generalizations are fun, aren't they.  Xbox 360 and PS3 games don't need to top charts to make a profit either. If that was the case then I'm sure all the "hardcore" multi-million dollar franchises would have moved to the Wii by now... but they haven't, as I'm sure you've noticed.  It helps, of course, to have a chart topping game, just as it does for any game released on any platform (including the Wii). But there's plenty of 360 and PS3 games that don't have multi-million dollar budgets, and most of them appear on Xbox Live Arcade and Playstation Network.
I know there's a lot of million sellers on the Wii but the really big sellers are Nintendo games. And, again, that's my point. Wii players mainly buy Nintendo games. But as the Wii's userbase expands maybe that will change? It just needs one truly huge third party game to buck the trend. Something like GTA IV was on the other consoles would produce a shift in attitude towards the Wii and that's what's needed. Not obscure third party hardcore hopefuls (I'm thinking The Conduit here, but I hope I'm wrong). It's needs one massive hardcore sales kick and then publishers, developers and maybe even gamers will start to take the console seriously. It seems to me that sales, profitability, etc, it's all just a diversion away from the biggger questions. Cos 50 million consoles sold means f*** all to me if there's only a few games on the system that I want to play. 
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| Mop it up | Feb 21 2009, 02:24 PM Post #459 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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I see. I thought it was the same game as Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility, only under a different name.
I'm not that fond of the other games so I wonder if that would be a good thing for me.
Which one do you own, Under the Knife or New Blood? Also, exactly how graphic is the game? If it's incredibly depictive of innards then I don't know if I could stomach it...  A jack of all trades is a master of none. Hopefully we'll see more focus on simply "hardcore" games; don't forget the aim is to someday turn the "casuals" into "hardcores". Using the logic that the top ten sellers are what are people are likely to buy, the XBox 360 has this problem as well. The attach rate for the 360 may be higher than Wii, but it isn't higher than ten. The top ten sellers may be third-party games but companies who didn't publish those games still have them to compete with. If you go by ratios, the top sellers on the XBox 360 have a higher percentage of copies sold vs. system sold; a ten-million seller on Wii is 1/5th the userbase, while on the 360 it is more than 1/3rd. Software sales seem moe spread out over all releases on the Wii than on 360. I know your point was that Nintendo games sell best but Nintendo = competition and there's still plenty of competition on the 360.
Yes, yes they are. Given the higher development costs of the 360 I'd be willing to bet that there is a larger number of games on the Wii that have turned a profit than there is on the 360. Unfortunately such information is practically impossible to find, so there's no way we'll ever know.
If you and I realize this why hasn't any company done this yet? This is why I believe it is about more than simply financials; developers also do not want to work with what they view as limitations of the Wii.
What are the bigger questions? Sales and profitability seem to be the reasons you aren't seeing the types of games that you want on Wii.
I have similar feelings about the 360, so I can relate. But like I said, don't give up on Wii just yet. It could take some time but I believe it will eventually become a software powerhouse that surpasses the PS2 in diversity. In the meantime, enjoy your 360 and PS3.
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| alxbly | Feb 21 2009, 03:23 PM Post #460 |
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Ancient
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How many 360 games have you actually played, Mop? Back to the Wii and MadWorld looks pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcGO-bDImY |
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| Mop it up | Feb 21 2009, 03:37 PM Post #461 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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None. But I've played enough games on the original XBox to know that the 360 isn't right for me, no matter what improvements were made to the games. Halo and all of the shooters, GTA, Fable, Elder Scrolls... these games aren't my thing. That isn't to say there's absolutely nothing on the 360 which I wouldn't want. Viva Pinata, Banjo-Kazooie, probably even Burnout and Orange Box. It comes down to something which is possibly ironic: finances. I can't afford it. This means I have to center my focus on what I would prefer. Look at my Wii list of wanted games, it's over 30 strong and doesn't even include upcoming games. My XBox 360 want list would probably be about 15 titles, which is the same number of Wii games I currently own. This doesn't even factor in that I own other systems with huge lists of games that I want, so I shouldn't be adding on to this list. I recently purchased a DS which I'm beginning to wonder if it was a mistake. Just another "mouth to feed" as it were... and I actually haven't bought any more DS games yet. I keep hearing about this MadWorld game, maybe I should check it out. |
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| Mop it up | Feb 24 2009, 02:37 AM Post #462 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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This might be old but I just found out about it today: Commodore 64 games released on the Wii VC |
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| niniendowarrior | Feb 24 2009, 11:51 PM Post #463 |
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Senior Member
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Found Disaster: Day of Crisis European Website (it's real bare) but I thought I'd share it because the trailer there is awesome.  http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/games/wii/disaster_day_of_crisis_9381.html I'm going to find this game, though I heard NoA might be releasing it sometime this year. |
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| alxbly | Feb 26 2009, 03:17 PM Post #464 |
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Ancient
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http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/26/get-a-grip-nintendo-reveals-wii-classic-controller-pro/ "Nintendo's Japanese site is now showing a new version of the dual-analog Classic Controller for Wii. The "Classic Controller Pro" replaces the original's tiny secondary shoulder buttons with a traditional Dual Shock style "two rows of buttons" set up, moves the two analog sticks out a bit from the center, and adds some hand grips. Hand grips are for pros. Basically, if a Dual Shock and a Wii Classic Controller had a baby, it would be -- a disgusting thing to think about. But if someone were to design a video game controller that used elements of both of those controllers, it would be the Classic Controller Pro. Nintendo plans a summer 2009 release for this controller, which should dovetail nicely with Monster Hunter 3 -- no doubt irritating Capcom, who is bundling a port of its predecessor, Monster Hunter G, with a special blue version of the original Classic. No pricing or information about a release outside of Japan is given". |
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| Mop it up | Feb 26 2009, 11:40 PM Post #465 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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*facepalm* It looks like somebody used Photoshop to morph together a Classic Controller and a white GCN controller. And I'll bet that's exactly what Nintendo did as well... You know, Nintendo has been making it really difficult to remain an unreasonable fangurl... er, fanboi. |
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| floorcat | Feb 27 2009, 01:02 AM Post #466 |
Nintendo sixty-floorcat
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The question "Why the HELL does the Classic Controller Pro still need to be plugged into the Wii Remote??" has hereby been posed by floorcat. |
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Now Playing: Clash Royale (mobile), Gravity Rush 2, Rayman Legends, Project CARS, Uncharted 4 Survival Mode ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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| alxbly | Feb 27 2009, 09:02 AM Post #467 |
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^ That does seem like a silly decision... why can't it be wireless? Gimme a wireless one of those and I'd be sold.
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| Mop it up | Mar 1 2009, 04:54 PM Post #468 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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My guess is that it makes it cheaper to manufacture to have it plug into the Wiimote. The short cord probably costs less than a wireless transmitter, and it also doesn't need a battery holder. Also, the system can probably only sync up with four wireless devices at one time, requiring people with four Wiimotes to sync up the Classic Controller every time they want to use it. Lastly, if it plugged into the GameCube port then there would probably be some confusion that it could be used to play GameCube games. |
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| niniendowarrior | Mar 1 2009, 07:12 PM Post #469 |
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I think Mop_it_up has mostly nailed it. I do think the Wavebirds work on the Wii, though wireless interference can be a factor. I think ultimately that the Wii was designed to connect with four Wii remotes. I would think that the peripheral hardware would need to somehow connect with the Wii remote. Just a guess. What I think they should have done is add a wii remote cradle on that thing. if you're going to require plugging it on the Wii remote, you might as well make sure that the Wii remote is out of the way of accidental button presses. |
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| niniendowarrior | Mar 2 2009, 01:01 AM Post #470 |
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Has anyone bought Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers on Virtual Console? I've been playing using the GC controller and the button layout is really testing my patience. If I go versus mode, I can't figure how to get back to the main menu save to do HOME-> Reset. Can someone tell me how this is supposed to work? |
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| alxbly | Mar 2 2009, 02:57 PM Post #471 |
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Ancient
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Yeah but they could still produce a device which connects straight to the Wii without a Wiimote. It might be more expensive but what does that matter? It's not like added expense has stopped Wii Fit from selling, let's face it. What I'd really have liked is something that you can use like a standard controller, a device that uses batteries and connects straight to the Wii. Just like a Wiimote does. It would be nice if there was a one controller solution to playing classic titles, gamecube games and Wii titles; just a standard wireless controller without any need to connect to a wiimote. I'd happily pay extra for that and it would be a nice replacement for the Wavebird. |
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| floorcat | Mar 2 2009, 10:16 PM Post #472 |
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Nintendo sixty-floorcat
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Teh flootcatz finds it all compleetly rediculus. reezun #1 reezun #1.5 |
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Now Playing: Clash Royale (mobile), Gravity Rush 2, Rayman Legends, Project CARS, Uncharted 4 Survival Mode ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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| niniendowarrior | Mar 2 2009, 10:36 PM Post #473 |
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Well, leave it to Nintendo for being archaic about this. Say, with the Thrust Master controller, why should they even bother with this "Pro" iteration?
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| alxbly | Mar 3 2009, 01:06 PM Post #474 |
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The Nyko Wing looks pretty good. I'm hesitant because the only other Nyko controller I've had was a piece of crap.
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| alxbly | Mar 3 2009, 08:20 PM Post #475 |
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Reached a decision today that will no doubt have Mop screaming BLASPHEMY all over the place. Wii ain't doing it for me just now, so I decided to box it back up and put a console I'm more likely to play under my TV. For now it's the PS2 but I'll probably end up swapping it out for other consoles like the N64 or Gamecube depending on what mood I'm in. This is the first time I've not had a Nintendo console sitting under my main TV since... well, over ten years.
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| Mop it up | Mar 3 2009, 11:47 PM Post #476 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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Any controller which plugs into the GameCube is going to be recognized as a GameCube controller and therefore wouldn't be compatible with games that support the Classic Controller but not the GCN controller (there are some).Nah, not for Wii. However...
BLASPHEMY! Seven things to say: 1. What 2. The 3. ****ity **** **** 4. Is 5. Wrong 6. With 7. You? I suppose you're experiencing the inevitable changing of your gaming tastes, as you seem different than when even I first "met" you.
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| niniendowarrior | Mar 5 2009, 06:24 AM Post #477 |
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I respect your decision, alxbly. Only good machines deserve your TV space. That said, I love my Wii. So much better than the Cube crap. |
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| alxbly | Mar 5 2009, 01:14 PM Post #478 |
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Ancient
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Swap them around and you have my own verdict.
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| migulic | Mar 5 2009, 03:53 PM Post #479 |
Senior Member
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And mine Seriously, the Cube is my favourite console so far (can't beat Zelda, Metroid Prime, RE4...) and the Wii is way down on the list.
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 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: That's for blasphemy! - 20G | |
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| niniendowarrior | Mar 5 2009, 05:16 PM Post #480 |
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I can live with that. For me, the cube is the first Nintendo console I want to throw out of the window and burn it on the stake. I really, really hate that machine. The Wii provides me with much better games and is more enjoyable, plus, all the GC games I bought are still playable. I would have hated it shelling out all my hard earned cash for mini-DVD frisbees. |
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