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| Wii discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 8 2006, 08:31 AM (13,659 Views) | |
| macN64 | May 9 2007, 04:50 AM Post #31 |
Senior Member
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The main reasons I got a Wii was for playing gamecube games (I never owned a gamecube) and for the virtual console (I don't have a console older than the N64). As you can probably tell, I'm not too bothered about modern games.
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| migulic | May 9 2007, 05:18 AM Post #32 |
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I don't know. I'm currently playing SSX Blur on it and I can tell you, that game is great! It almost gets up to the phenomenal level of SSX 3. Don't listen to the people who complain about the controls. I had no problems with the at all. Rayman Raving Rabbids is also good, but if you don't like minigames you might want to skip out on it. |
 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: That's for blasphemy! - 20G | |
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| plankton88 | May 9 2007, 06:53 AM Post #33 |
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I do feel ya there. I am still a bit concerned about how the controls will be for Smash Bros. Brawl. I think I would rather just use the Gamecube Controller for that game. |
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| dagoss | May 9 2007, 10:39 AM Post #34 |
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My complaint actually gets to the heart of the issue you are encountering. If the controller is gimmicky as I accuse, it will not attract the most serious games. In fact, it will encourage games that take advantage of the controllers novelty. That is my concern. All I want is good games and I think a strategy based on a novelty isn't going to be taken too seriously, thus the games will suffer. Eventually there will probably be some redeeming games for the Wii (the inevitable "wait until X game comes out, things will change!") but I still maintain firm that the console would do better if it used a normal control. |
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| Deleted User | May 9 2007, 10:51 AM Post #35 |
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Guess this depends upon what we consider to be a novelty. Did you feel the same way about the introduction of analogue sticks?
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| Mop it up | May 9 2007, 11:02 AM Post #36 |
Forum Urban Legend
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But then what would they have that separates them from Sony and Microsoft? I think that the reason Nintendo came up with this thing is because they can't compete with Sony and Microsoft on a technical level. Why else do all of the Wii games so far have "GameCube graphics"? But I agree that they are relying too much on the control concept, rather than great games, to sell the system. Nintendo's pretty much in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. Every new system has its game drought, one reason why I don't like to get a new system at launch. Six months after the XBox 360 launch, and what did it have? Sports games and generic shooters, but with HD. Six months after the PS3 launch, and what does it have? The only game I've ever heard mentioned was MotorStorm. The good stuff doesn't come until later, when developers get a feel for the systems. This generation, the only system that has potential of introducing something new and different is the Wii. Unfortunately, it could be a while before that happens (if ever). |
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| Deleted User | May 9 2007, 12:06 PM Post #37 |
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I'm not so sure. I'm playing Dead Rising on the 360 and the sheer amount of zombies is something else... it's a new experience (and one that has me hooked)! The power of the 360 and PS3 means they can do new things too, whether that be uber graphics, sheer numbers of characters/enemies, super-realistic environments and physics, new levels of enemy AI or something else entirely. And who knows, perhaps Microsoft will release a motion controller. Sony already have a tilt mechanism in the PS3 pad. I don't want to play down what Nintendo have done with the Wii... I just don't think it's the be all and end all as far as new experiences go. |
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| Mop it up | May 9 2007, 12:42 PM Post #38 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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I wouldn't call those new experiences. Just because the games have more of the same old things doesn't make them new, it just makes the experience different. Making a new control concept is the only way to make an all new game type. Now, I'm not saying the Wii is capable of that, because I've never used one. But it's currently the only one with the potential since it has a new control concept. |
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| Deleted User | May 9 2007, 06:40 PM Post #39 |
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. In my opinion, a different control system isn't the only kind of new experience; gameplay elements count just as much. |
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| dataDyne | May 10 2007, 05:26 AM Post #40 |
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Forum Dinosaur!
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In my opinion, the Wii isn't going to be nearly as successful as many gamers (mainly Nintendo fanboys) seem to think. Yes, the controller is great fun to use. But once you get past the controller, what else is there to look forward to? None of the games that I've played on the Wii have actually made me feel as though I'm experiencing something completely new and innovative. Wii Sports is fun, but its simply a gimmick. Twilight Princess is a fantastic game, but can be played without the Wii controller with absolutely no problems at all. The same applies for most other Wii games. My advice to people wanting to invest in a new generation console (including myself ;)), buy a 360. Microsoft have really got their act together this time around and it's really showing. |
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Give this man a fish, and he can throw it up eleven times -alxbly PSN: LifeIsPreachy Mario Kart Wii: 0088 - 2869 - 9843 | |
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| Mop it up | May 10 2007, 09:51 AM Post #41 |
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Forum Urban Legend
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I applaud you alxbly. Your unflinching optimism is truly inspiring, but alas, I can't join you, for I am a cynic. The game industry is dead to me... but I won't get into the reasons why. I'd hate for it to be seen as an attempt to convert people to my way of thinking. There are already too many cynics, and not enough optimists. This beer's for you.
 *clinks glass, chugs beer* |
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| Deleted User | May 10 2007, 12:38 PM Post #42 |
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Do you know what I think the Wii needs? It needs someone in Nintendo to say to developers "you don't always have to use motion sensing". As fun as it is, there's not always a need for it and in some games it just feels wrong (Splinter Cell, for example). If the Wii is really gonna appeal to as wide a demographic as possible then Nintendo should make use of the rather lovely looking classic classic controller for some games. Not all gamers want motion sensing in every game, as we're discovering in this discussion. But would any developer be brave enough to not use? Guess the question is what's worse... not using the motion sensor or using it badly? Either way, the fanboys will have something to whine about.  
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| dagoss | May 11 2007, 03:15 PM Post #43 |
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Regarding innovation, the Wii is certainly not the only system capable of innovation. The hardware has nothing to do with what is innovative and what is not. All that could be done with 2D games has not been done. Creativity is not graphic dependent, controller dependent, or dependent on what medium the game uses -- and looking at the games Nintendo or 2D parties produced for Gamecube, I'd say Nintendo is hardly innovative. The most popular games for Gamecube, like SSBM and Double Dash were hardly new ideas. Metroid Prime was probably the last thing to appear on a Nintendo console that truly inspiring. Resident Evil 4 is multiplatform and 3rd party -- I wouldn't give Nintendo credit on that one. But again, hardware is no way related to creativity. |
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| floorcat | May 11 2007, 10:00 PM Post #44 |
Nintendo sixty-floorcat
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 I power-up my Wii all the time!
In fact... Every. Single. Day. ... regardless of any final 20+ page term papers or grading deadlines I had to stress over these past 3 weeks... ... it's amazing how much the Wii Weather & Everybody Votes channels have become a part of my life. 
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Now Playing: Clash Royale (mobile), Gravity Rush 2, Rayman Legends, Project CARS, Uncharted 4 Survival Mode ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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| floorcat | May 11 2007, 10:06 PM Post #45 |
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Nintendo sixty-floorcat
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... to be fair though... I couldn't play much of ANYthing lately.
 I personally think the Wii's doing okay... it's just we've more or less come to expect a constant flow of good games. Think of our "almighty" N64. Now that is where we can talk about game droughts... |
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Now Playing: Clash Royale (mobile), Gravity Rush 2, Rayman Legends, Project CARS, Uncharted 4 Survival Mode ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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| BetaWolf | May 21 2007, 02:50 PM Post #46 |
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I have something to add in about the whole "just a novelty" argument. Can the same thing not be said about graphics or something? You'll get an Xbox 360 and PS3 and your jaws will drop at the graphics, but you do get accustomed to that, believe it or not, and when that happens, the games are going to have the exact same gameplay as the PS2 and Xbox's games. Regardless of whether you get accustomed to the Wii remote, once better games come out, how can you argue that it'll be just a novelty compared to that? I mean, games that really use the Wii remote well will simply not be possible on Xbox 360 or PS3. Also, this is not the first Nintendo system with a slow start. DS started out ludicrously slow. At this point, the best two games we had were Meteos and Kirby: Canvas Curse. People made topics just like this, ones which console gamers did not see. I feel that Wii is in the same situation, and just needs time for developers to become accustomed to it. Then we'll see whether it's "novelty" or "innovation". As for whether it should be an option for developers, they should, IMO, always use it. Problem with bringing Splinter Cell as an example is that Ubisoft really is not trying with Wii at all. We got a very similar Splinter Cell game on DS a few months after it came out, one which was absolutely terrible. Touch screen controls were tacked on, and it was just a really watered down port of a console game. That's all Ubisoft seems to be interested in for Nintendo systems nowadays, watered down ports, which is why they shouldn't be factored into this argument. |
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| Deleted User | May 21 2007, 04:52 PM Post #47 |
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Where as with the Wii you get to swing your arm around to the exact same gameplay as the PS2 and Xbox. Okay, so I'm being patronising, but the point is that that extra power in those systems doesn't need to simply be used for better graphics. The power is there to create interactive worlds filled with detail. Puzzles don't simply have to be about pushing blocks now, fights don't need to be limited to two or three enemies (oh, Dead Rising, you spoil me so...), etc, etc.
And there we have the problem. Motion sensing can feel out of place in some games, so why force developers to use it? Not that you should be worried as Nintendo have already forced developers to use it. Take a standard multi-platform release (pick any one you'd like); if it doesn't use motion sensing then how will it compare to the other current gen efforts? It won't have as good graphics, it won't be HD, there's still no online compatibile Wii games so it's unlikely to be online...
I agree, we should simply ignore any game which is bad, and base our discussion purely on the Wii's good games. Wow, the Wiimote sure is being used well by everyone, now that we're ignoring the watered down ports/average/bad games!!!  Back in the real world... how many other companies are creating watered down ports for Wii? Seems like there's quite a few. So perhaps these do deserve to be factored into the discussion?
And, conversely, games that use the full power of the 360 or PS3 will not be possible on the Wii... well, perhaps as a watered down port (which we can then ignore because the developer isn't trying hard enough ;)). Gameplay can evolve through motion sensing, as shown in Twilight Princess and Wii Sports where it felt just right. But gameplay could equally evolve in other ways as well. |
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| BetaWolf | May 21 2007, 05:38 PM Post #48 |
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Hardly. If they were giving an honest effort then we could count them, but there's a difference between an honest effort and a below mediocre attempt at profit. Sonic and the Secret Rings is a more honest effort, and there's a lot of contraversey between it as well. And Ubisoft does NOT make all of the bad Wii games. I suppose if you glue a seatbelt into a car with Elmer's Glue, and it gives out and the passenger dies, seatbelts are a bad idea? It's hardly valid to judge an entire concept based on the most half-***ed cases.
If used correctly, it should feel natural in any game. Personally, although Excite Truck was hard to get used to, I doubt I'd enjoy it as much with natural controls. What I'd like to argue is that if putting motion-control on a game causes it to feel "forced" in any way, then it simply does not belong on Wii. Why make a Wii game with traditional controls and no motion control? Put it on Xbox 360 or PS3 and it'll easily be a better game than it would be on Wii. As for online, you guys are getting Mario Strikers Charged soon, and we're getting Pokemon Battle Revolution in exactly a week. It shouldn't be that long until we get online-enabled 3rd-party Wii games. It took a long time for the first 3rd-party online-enabled DS game (TH American Sk8land I think), and as for now... okay, you win this one
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| JadeYoshi from GameFAQs. | |
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| Deleted User | May 21 2007, 07:19 PM Post #49 |
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No-one has 'judged' motion controls based soley on average/bad/poor games. I've already said I'm all for motion control if it works well and I've given examples of that. I also gave one example where it didn't work and a few other examples where I felt it could have been better. Actually, most opinion here seems to be well rounded, taking the good and bad games into account. But you seem to think we should ignore titles that don't "give an honest effort"? Excuse me whilst I reach for my rose tinted spectacles... |
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| Shiren Wonders | May 21 2007, 08:11 PM Post #50 |
Senior Member
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I played the Wii for the first time at my brother's place last week. He owns Far Cry and Red Steel. I attempted to play both and found the latter to be the more intuitive and aesthetically pleasing. As tired as I am of FPS's, I really enjoyed Red Steel. Maybe it the use of the sword and the Eastern approach or the controls or both, but let me say this: I haven't had to relearn the way I actually play games since Super Mario 64 more than 10 yrs ago, and I'm kind of excited by the challenge not only to myself but to the gaming industry as a whole. Now if only the Wii had more good original exclusives. I just don't want to see Mario Party 29000 or any other milked or cheesy franchise game with the nifty controls slapped on as an afterthought. I'm kind of reminded of the N64. Advanced 3D graphics was the N64's main attraction and innovation. Throughout its lifespan there were developers that capitalized on the "Gee it's 3D" factor without providing fresh gameplay or even quality visuals. And then there were others that didn't even attempt to draw on the N64's power and simply tacked-on "64" at the end of their games' titles (which sometimes translated to "poor port"). My point is that I agree with whoever is wary of a similar thing happening to the Wii's with regard to its shtick. |
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| BetaWolf | May 22 2007, 02:47 PM Post #51 |
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No, perhaps I worded it wrong. Of course we shouldn't pretend that those games don't exist. Crappy Wii controls = nonexistant game? I don't like that argument either. What I'm saying is that developer effort has to be taken into account. Some of the things we take for granted would be placed among trash had they been executed poorly. Classic example: Sega (Mega) CD vs. Playstation. If you forgot your history, SCD was done poorly and PSX was done right, so SCD flopped and PSX succeeded, big time. SCD was an attempt to leech off of the Genesis instead of building something new. PSX was it's own console. That's the difference. Do we base using compact disks as a game medium based on SCD, or PSX, hmm? We don't pretend SCD never existed, of course, but nobody ever argues that it was a bad idea because of the fact that SCD existed. We look at the PSX instead, because it was done correctly. Everyone judges SCD as "a poor attempt", not "a poor idea", correct? |
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| Deleted User | May 22 2007, 07:08 PM Post #52 |
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Deleted User
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Sorry, I've got to be honest here; I no longer have any idea what your talking about or how I can relate it to the Wii discussion. I'm not saying motion sensing is a bad idea because of Splinter Cell... is that what you think I'm saying? |
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| Rapueda (retired) | May 28 2007, 08:47 PM Post #53 |
Gemini Squadron
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This may have already been mentioned, but it kinda seems like every game is expected to use the Wiimote, even if it doesn't fit, and if a game doesn't use it, it's immediately seen as being inferior. |
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| BetaWolf | May 28 2007, 09:00 PM Post #54 |
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When there is a better version of the same game on PS3 and Xbox 360, it is inferior. I didn't buy a system with motion control to play slightly graphically-enhanced Gamecube games (and as of now, we aren't getting even that much!). Either way, I'm done arguing here. Discussions like this have sucked the gaming life out of me, especially on GameFAQs. |
| JadeYoshi from GameFAQs. | |
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| StYoung | May 28 2007, 09:21 PM Post #55 |
Elite
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Graphics don't make the game. I'd much rather play, say, Final Fantasy IV (US) than FFXII, Perfect Dark than Perfect Dark Zero, or Super Mario 64 than Super Mario Sunshine. It's about gameplay. As far as justification goes, I've played two of my favorite games (so far) ever on the console, and it hasn't even been out for a year (talking about Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario. Granted I haven't spent too much time with SPM, but so far its ****ing fantastic) I think thats flat out fantastic. I really could care the less about ported racing, sports, FPS, and generic movie rip-off games when I know I can have tons of quality exclusives, either from Nintendo or other publishers. |
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| Kerr Avon | Jul 10 2007, 09:17 AM Post #56 |
Senior Member
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I've not been around for a while, except for a few minutes on the net every so often, owing to my life being so fantastic recently (very heavy sarcasm). I won't go into details, but my life would make a good plot for Eastenders (the most depressing TV program ever, of you're lucky enough to have never heard of it). Anyway, life's crap, so what? Moan or get on with it, I suppose. I've been thinking of getting a Wii to cheer me up (I love the idea of first person shooters with the Wiimote, provided it works as well as it could), but I'd like to see one first, yet none of my friends have bought a Wii, or are planning to. Four of my friends now have XBox 360s, and one bloke I barely know (relation of a friend)I know has bought a PS3, the rest of my mates are back to using PCs for games. No-one I know has a Wii, and none of my mates has a PS3. Now fair enough, the PS3 is still overpriced (here in England at least), but the Wii is very reasonably priced and you'd think the novel control method would attract interest, plus the name Nintendo is synonimous with good games, yet none of my friends are interested. Four (maybe five) of my mates had Gamecubes, though all got rid of them before I bought mine (I only got mine last Christmas, after seeing Metroid Prime on TV), and only one of them (I think) kept the GC long enough to play RE4 (I remember 'cos when he rented RE4 I meant to go and see it, but didn't go), and he sold his GC soon after. I think the main problem was, and I agree that although the GC had some superb games (Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and Super Smash Bros. Melee are surely three of the best games on any system) it didn't have many games when compared to the XBox and PS2. Plus the GC was definately lacking in first person shooters, which I and most of my mates love. The GC did have some very good FPSs, such as Timesplitters 2 and 3, and XIII, but it had no good exclusive FPSs (Metroid Prime is awesome, but it's not a FPS, whatever anyone says). And so the GC lost interest amongst my fellow gamers. I'm keeping the GC, as it has some excllent games, but it's definately my third favourite console out of the three I own (others being the N64 and XBox). My point is, I think that to a degree, the Gamecube suffered the same commercial problems as the N64, such as lack of games, that damn "it's a kids machine" image problem (the GC was seen as a childs toy, rather than as a young man's system, at least here in England), and the fact that many of the best games were "cute"; Mario and Zelda games are (usually) very good indeed, and are not only for kids (they have good learning curves, well thought out difficulty and lots of surprises), but they are perceived by many people as being for pre-teenagers only, largely since they have cartoon style graphics, no blood, and a fat stereotypical Italian plumber, or an elf with a sword, or a green dinosaur, or whatever. And it seems to me that people, at least around here, are assuming that the Wii is going to go the same way. Perhaps also the Wiimote is seen as a novelty that's only for kids, I don't know. But whatever the cause, the Wii is not seen as a prospective purchase by any of my mates, most of whom are either now stauch 360 or staunch PC supporters (and yet two or three years ago, most of them were anti-PC due to the cost and troubles of PC gaming. I think that's largely because a new, capable gaming PC is so cheap, especially with broadband being so cheap and easily available. I do hope the Wii does well, and from what I've read on the 'net it is selling well, but no-one I know has one, which would suggest that, since my mate's are all thirty-something-ish blokes, that maybe the Wii is primarily being bought for kids rather than adults. That won't help Nintendo's image at all. By the way, are there any good first person shooters on the Wii? And what N64 games are available on the Wii's download service now? |
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| Deleted User | Jul 10 2007, 10:13 AM Post #57 |
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The Wii still needs more top class games before I'd recommend it to anyone, and the same applies to the PS3. Although you'd think FPS's would be great on the Wii, developers have had mixed results in this genre. Red Steel is mainly crap, really glitchy and the controls are poor. Call of Duty 3 has okay controls but there's nothing there that would make me recommend the poorer looking Wii version over the 360 version (even although it's the Wii version I own... it was a present). The first shooter on the Wii that's really lived up to it's potential is Resident Evil 4; the controls are great and they feel just right. It's not a FPS, but it's a solid AAA game. The only downside is that most people have already played it on another console. So... should you buy a Wii? No. At least, not just now. If you're after good first person shooters then there's only one console to consider and that's the Xbox 360. Heck, there's only one console to consider, full stop. Wii and PS3 both lack games, and the games they do have are all expensive. The 360 has masses of great games, a great budget range of games (which is important if you don't fancy spending £35-£50 per game) and a great controller. And all 360's now come with a three year warranty as standard, so even the red rings of death shouldn't put you off. |
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| Rapueda (retired) | Jul 10 2007, 03:58 PM Post #58 |
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Gemini Squadron
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I'd suggesting going for an Xbox 360 instead of a Wii. It sounds like it has more of the types of games that you want to play. And welcome back!
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| Shiren Wonders | Jul 20 2007, 08:44 PM Post #59 |
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I can't argue with most of what you all said, but I think Red Steel is really unique and immersive while being technically far above any other FPS on the Wii. I'll go hide in a corner with my opinion and pretend to swat bad guys with my TV remote.  :ph43r:
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| D.J Cat | Jul 21 2007, 05:43 AM Post #60 |
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Ahhh, I still haven't got a Wii yet but I will! There really hasn't been any top tier games released yet (I played the proper version of Twilight Princess on the Gamecube) and as such some of my foolish friends have started selling their Wii's. Their problem was that they went too early. The good games are yet to come (Mario, Metroid, Smash) and then they will all have to re-buy one. Kids these days are stupid with money... But me I'm also heavily into it for the sake of Virtual Console. |
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