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Do Funtastic consoles have better video display?; MegaMania has pics to prove it!
Topic Started: Dec 4 2012, 10:26 PM (39,249 Views)
Shadow_Zero
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I could've sworn that it was confirmed that the Funtastic consoles didn't have s-video output (at least PAL ones).
I don't have one myself, so I can't test. I do have the following:
NUS-001 (JPN) / NUS-CPU-02 / VDC-NUS (NUJ10442567)
NUS-001 (EUR) / NUS-CPU(P)-01 / DENC-NUS (NUP10009929)
NUS-001 (JPN) / NUS-CPU-05 / AVDC-NUS (NUJ13871399)
NUS-001(FRA) / NUS-CPU(R)-01 / S-RGB A (NUP11779611)

In any case I can say that the FRA N64's do not support s-video output (but can be RGB modded). The s-video on my EUR launchconsole is not good. On my LCD screen it gives the X pattern hatch effect and compared to the JPN console it looks less colourful and crisp. The JPN s-video output I must say looks stunning on my CRT TV, hard to distinguish from RGB!

So I'd like to get verified that all Funtastic consoles do have s-video support?
And do people also have bad s-video output from (early) PAL consoles?
Did the NTSC Funtastic consoles get s-video improvement, or did that remain the same?
Do people also notice a (big) difference in video quality between LCD and CRT tv's? (especially for (early) PAL consoles)


If you would like me to test anything else, just let me know!
I've asked a friend of mine if he still has his Pikachu console, which I might borrow for testing :)


PS: Doesn't this forum have e-mail notification?
Edited by Shadow_Zero, May 11 2013, 02:22 AM.
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Shadow_Zero
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I cannot believe that on a (fairly) large tv screen a composite signal looks the same as the s-video signal (I mean, the whole technical story of multiple signals going over 1 wire interfering eachother or split up over 2 lines thus not doing that...). I wish it were easier to make pictures of a tv screen to show the difference!

I have never experienced this!
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Shadow_Zero
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Refresh my memory, I thought N64 did have s-video output...?

Some threads on N64 s-video:
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3203.40
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3460.0
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?12169-PAL-N64-s-video-problem
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Shadow_Zero
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To rectifiy, the NUS-FRA models do not output s-video at all. I was talking about my NUS-EUR model (Dutch launch system in this case).
Technically the EUR models are missing components on the pcb which clarifies the bad quality for s-video and composite in comparison to the NTSC models (yes, Nintendo screwed PAL countries AGAIN).
Check out these threads:
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3460.0
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3203.40

Hash pattern is only an issue on my LCD screen, not my CRT screen. I'm plugging the cable directly in the s-video connector of my CRT tv. My JVC has a seperate s-video channel for that, otherwise it will be black & white, so I'm using the right channel. And like I said, the NTSC console looks super with s-video. I tried the s-video mod as described on nfggames, but now my EUR console has black & white output only with s-video, so I'll have to look at that some more.

@bluedogrulez: can you compare video quality of a NTSC console with a PAL console?
Nintendo did make a s-video cable in the N64 days iirc, but it was only released in Japan (I saw one on eBay last month, for $100 or something heh).

PS: I don't own a funtastic model, so I have no knowledge about changes in their video output. I just have original PAL and NTSC consoles.

@Z890: What would you like to confirm? I have s-video/composite combined cables as well. I used a multimeter and it beeped when touching the s-video and composite pins. I don't quite understand how these cables work. I don't have dot crawling using s-video, so it is an improvement over composite. But believing the multimeter, it's sending a composite signal over the s-video pins and it's not true s-video...?
Edited by bluedogrulez, Jul 29 2013, 05:45 AM.
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Shadow_Zero
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To clarify, I have both true s-video as well as s-video/composite combo cables. I see no difference between these s-video cable outputs on my old model EUR and JAP N64.
And to clarify again, the s-video on my JAP N64 looks great with every cable. On my EUR N64 it does not look so good. What I will try as well is test with the composite cable. I recall that looks the same between my JAP and EUR N64, but I'm not sure.

Can you clarify the bit about that PAL regions can get s-video cables with components added? I do not know of these s-video cables (or does Consolegoods produce them or something?).
The Gamecube cables weren't region locked anymore. NTSC GC does not output RGB, PAL GC does not output s-video. The composite cables are the same as NTSC N64/SNES (so only SNES and N64 had difference between PAL and NTSC).

We should make a table or something of our findings for the world to know :)
I'll re-read your test results from http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/single/?p=8140741&t=7363768 and perhaps make a list when I did my tests. What tv(s) do you have/test on?

I have my doubts http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310685882608?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 is an official s-video cable. Looks exactly like mine, which I got from Play-Asia... I assume if it's an official Nintendo cable it should have the logo somewhere and a product code (SHVC, DOL, something like that). Ah, you already gave the code; SHVC-009 :)


EDIT:
I've tested my SNES/N64 and GC s-video and composite cables and on my standard grey JAP N64 with VDC chip there's not much difference noticable on my 29" 50hz JVC CRT tv.
I'll try composite later on with my Sony Bravia LCD (which doesn't have s-video connection unfortunately), see if that makes a difference. Currently I have no working s-video on my PAL consoles :/
Edited by Shadow_Zero, Jul 30 2013, 04:01 PM.
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Shadow_Zero
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I found this in my archive (or maybe I already posted it somewhere):
Quote:
 

Motherboard Revision and DAC/Video Encoder Chip List
NTSC N64's
NUS-CPU-01 = VDC-NUS + ENC-NUS
NUS-CPU-02 = VDC-NUS + ENC-NUS
NUS-CPU-03 = VDC-NUS or VDC-NUS A + ENC-NUS
NUS-CPU-04 = VDC-NUS A + ENC-NUS
NUS-CPU-05 = AVDC-NUS or MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-05-1 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-06 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-07 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-08 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-08-1 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-09 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU-09-1 = MAV-NUS

PAL N64's
NUS-CPU(P)-01 = DENC-NUS
NUS-CPU(P)-02 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU(P)-03 = MAV-NUS
NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 = MAV-NUS

After motherboard revision NUS-04, nintendo changed the combiner chipset. This explains why most black/grey consoles don't have the sharper image (they are NUS-04 and earlier).[/b]
So in my case I'm comparing a JAP N64 NUS-CPU-02/VDC-NUS + ENC-NUS (great s-video!) with a EUR N64 NUS-CPU(P)-01 = DENC-NUS (not colourful s-video).
I wonder if the MAV-NUS with PAL N64's produce better s-video output...


EDIT:
I guess that's kinda what Link83 also mentioned: http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/single/?p=8118841&t=7363768
Edited by Shadow_Zero, Aug 1 2013, 02:21 PM.
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Shadow_Zero
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Yeah, I tried to s-video mod my EUR N64: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3460.msg34022#msg34022
but I've got black/white image now over s-video, so need to fix that.
I mainly tested with Mario 64 (both PAL and NTSC), but also checked with NBA Hang Time (NTSC) and Superstar soccer (PAL). I have various PAL and NTSC games yes. I can imagine there might be a difference with CRT tv's that have digital processing and stuff. Mine is just a good 'ol plain 50hz without any digital processing/enhancement or whatsoever.

The PAL Gamecube composite cable was different than the SNES/N64 and should be the correct one to use with any PAL system (Nintendo changed the hardware for PAL SNES and N64 compared to NTSC, but not the a/v cable!). But like I said, I don't see any difference between the SNES/N64 composite and GC composite cable with the N64 on my CRT. Still need to test with my Bravia LCD. All my composite cables are the official Nintendo cables.

You're quoting me wrongly. I tried to say that the PAL SNES/N64 composite cables were altered from the NTSC version, and are missing the 220uF caps, as Link83 posted here: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3203.msg23828#msg23828
The PAL Gamecube composite cable got 'fixed', and is the same as the NTSC SNES/N64 composite cables were.

I didn't notice any more blur with the grey PAL console. Is that both with composite and s-video?
Do mind nobody really knows (or has said in any case) what the effect on the video quality would be when using NTSC s-video/composite on a PAL N64. Only thing I have read is that the caps should remove the DC offset,which in theory could affect the video quality, but nothing is certain.
Edited by Shadow_Zero, Aug 19 2013, 04:17 AM.
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Shadow_Zero
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The console sticker will always show NUS-001 (EUR). The NUS-CPU(P)-01 and following revision numbers can only be read from the PCB (so you'll have to open the N64).

To what are you comparing your Grape Purple N64 and with which video connection?

Today I tested with composite on my Sony Bravia LCD, which makes a BIG difference compared to my JVC 50hz CRT. The PAL grey N64 shows A LOT of dot crawling, while the NTSC N64 doesn't have this issue (just the unsharp edges you have with composite). So that was kinda new to me, since I'm used that composite video always has dot crawling.

Other than that, I don't see any difference between the PAL SNES composite cable and the PAL GC composite cable.
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Shadow_Zero
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Z890
Aug 5 2013, 02:00 PM
regarding what is seen with ntsc cables on pal systems...what you get is a brighter image on screen...as i have bothe pal and ntsc cables to confirm.

@Z890:
And here my test differs. I don't see any difference between a PAL and NTSC composite cable on the N64. Now I must say I didn't open the composite cables, so I'm not sure what's inside. I'm just following Link83's info (where he states that the Gamecube composite cables are the same, which is the same as the NTSC SNES/N64 composite cable).

Sidenote: if I use a PAL SNES RGB cable (with 3x 75ohm resistors instead of 3x 220uF caps), the picture is darker on a RGB modded grey N64.

EDIT:
I have to rectify myself. I thought that the PAL GC composite cable was the same as the NTSC SNES/N64 composite cable, but looking at http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav that is not true. NTSC SNES/N64 (and even GC) composite and s-video cables don't have any caps or resistors at all. So I don't have an official NTSC cable. I haven't opened my 3rd party s-video/composite combo cables, so I don't know what's inside them.
Edited by Shadow_Zero, Aug 19 2013, 11:43 AM.
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Shadow_Zero
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I recently got an PAL Ice Blue NUS-EUR-2 N64 (with white bottom).
Hooking up with s-video doesn't give me any picture (same cable works for my other N64's). Aside from a few posts here in the beginning of people mentioning they thought the colored N64's didn't support s-video, I haven't read anything anymore in this thread, and even read of people having colored PAL consoles with s-video output.
The serial is: NUP 16823449

So why does this N64 not have s-video output?
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Shadow_Zero
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Shadow_Zero
Feb 23 2014, 03:29 PM
I recently got an PAL Ice Blue NUS-EUR-2 N64 (with white bottom).
Hooking up with s-video doesn't give me any picture (same cable works for my other N64's). Aside from a few posts here in the beginning of people mentioning they thought the colored N64's didn't support s-video, I haven't read anything anymore in this thread, and even read of people having colored PAL consoles with s-video output.
The serial is: NUP 16823449

So why does this N64 not have s-video output?
Found something from Link83 at Bencheck (http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=27684, http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?p=449234#p449234):
Quote:
 
Thanks to a little investigating by blaze3927 I found out that the NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 is not only missing SMD components for S-Video output, but that Nintendo deliberately connected the Luma and Chroma signal directly to ground, so this revision does not have any S-Video output as standard :( (Ninty must have been really cheap to want to save costs on four SMD components! :roll:) For anyone interested I have added a little info about this under the NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 section.

Quote:
 
NUS-CPU(P)-03-1
This revision uses the 'indented' heatsink like the NTSC NUS-CPU-09 revision. Some small differences noted between this revision and the NUS-CPU(P)-02. One key difference are missing SMD components for S-Video output, meaning this revision does not support S-Video as standard (Really cheap Ninty) The missing components can be seen on the NUS-CPU(P)-02 revision at locations DA7, DA8, C11 and C12 - these positions are no longer labelled on this revision. DA7 and DA8 are diode arrays used for ESD protection, and C11 and C12 are capacitors for EMI reduction. None of these components are strictly necessary for the S-Video output to work, but Nintendo also connected the Luma and Chroma signals directly to ground where C11/C12 used to be - this connection would need to be cut to restore S-Video output on this revision. This is probably the very last PAL revision.

I opened up my Ice Blue console and it's a NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 (serial NUP16823449). So I guess that explains why I don't have s-video.
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