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Rts Potential With Septa
Topic Started: Dec 25 2005, 01:51 AM (2,257 Views)
CACrafter88bk2504
Transit Historian
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I think the RTS buses on SEPTA propertyc ould have lasted until 2000. They were speed demons & SEPTA should not have let them fall into disrepair like they did.

Had they kept the RTS buses around, then maybe we would not have a NABI order. Maybe we could have gotten the 15 running sooner & gotten resume service on the entire 23 & entire 56.
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Mark
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CACrafter88bk2504
Dec 25 2005, 06:51 AM
I think the RTS buses on SEPTA propertyc ould have lasted until 2000. They were speed demons & SEPTA should not have let them fall into disrepair like they did.

Had they kept the RTS buses around, then maybe we would not have a NABI order. Maybe we could have gotten the 15 running sooner & gotten resume service on the entire 23 & entire 56.

Friend, those RTS's were finished by '96 [actually many of them were on their last legs around '94]. What SEPTA should have bought were the Neoplans instead of NABI's. That would have been more compatible with the rest of the fleet [which were Neoplan] than the NABI's.

In fact, why did SEPTA get the NABI's in the first place?

In addition, Ed Rendell [as our then Mayor] should have been more forceful with SEPTA concerniong thye restoration of the 15/23/56. He really should have traded more stable funding for the restoration of the trolley lines.
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transportgirl
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are nabi's inferior in some way?
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Van2006ko
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CACrafter88bk2504
Dec 25 2005, 02:51 AM
I think the RTS buses on SEPTA propertyc ould have lasted until 2000. They were speed demons & SEPTA should not have let them fall into disrepair like they did.

Had they kept the RTS buses around, then maybe we would not have a NABI order. Maybe we could have gotten the 15 running sooner & gotten resume service on the entire 23 & entire 56.

CA, I don't know which RTS buses you ridden on in the past while these coaches were in our everyday venue. From my memory I can tell you this; the RTS were the exact opposite the way that you describe above.

Of course SEPTA maintainer issues factor into the picture; however, the RTS II slope backs were already defective operating vehicles. Over the years these units has caused a wide variety of misfortune to the transportation authority, their rear A/C system was defective thus SEPTA has to retrofit these units with an on the top air condition systems.

I don't know why SEPTA retrofit these engines in 1986-7 timeframe, but I assume that their acceleration was the caused; however, as the end result drivers and passengers were still faced with the misery of riding them on their daily routines running a tad late due to a slow bus.

Furthermore, what’s so wrong with the NABIs? If you were to do your research the Nabi 40 foot SLW is a proven design; these units are not as troublesome as some buses were for example: The Neoplan AK's for another example the CTA Compo buses with there crack frame issues,


Triva: Where is the A/C unit located on the New Flyers?
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trolleyk
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On the roof of the bus.
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redarrow5591
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With the exception of the turtles (hybrids for the rest of you) which have theirs in the back.
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silverliner_2
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Mark
Dec 26 2005, 10:21 AM
In fact, why did SEPTA get the NABI's in the first place?


NABI was the lowest bidder. Neoplan, as I heard it, was in third place behind Orion Bus Industries.

Had the numbers been different, we could have ended up with Orion V's.
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SEPTA9027
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The RTS engine retrofit started I believe late in '87 and finished in late '88-early '89, as part SEPTA's then new practice of 4-year overhauls. That was pretty cool because the brand-new 3100-series Neoplans basically owned the 52 during that time. I don't believe GM should have put 6V-71's in the RTS in the first place- that engine was ok for the new looks but not for a heavier ADB (RTS II and Flxible 870 which came with 71's too). SEPTA getting the 6V-92's helped with the acceleration, but I think the trannies should have been replaced too. THe AC problem was common in the RTS-II 01 and 03 series, most operators simply turned their slopebacks into straight backs, SEPTA was among few who put the AC on the roof. The RTS-II for its flaws still ranks among my all-time favorites. I would have loved to seen SEPTA get some of the 06-series. I have to admit it's wierd seeing 8000-series numbers on New Flyers.

As for NABI, I talked to an operator who had my favorite NABI-5045 on the 42 on this particular day, he told me the only reason why there weren't more was because of NABI's shaky financial situation at the time. In a previous post, someone mentioned the RTS-II as a defective design, but when the old Ikarus USA brought the 416 to our shores (1989), it had plenty of issues of its own-more serious ones than the RTS did at their relative early years. I don't think SEPTA would have given the original 416 a second look, but a few years worth of improvements have been good for both models.
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Far Rock Depot
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i cant understand how SEPTA had issues with the RTS. Here in NYC, they were KINGS untill the last 10 years with no definate manufacturer and all this low floor crap. That bus, in some areas, have even lasted 20 years! Before the private bus lines in Queens, Brooklyn and The Bronx were taken over by the MTA, Theyre RTS fleets were the oldest around with 5 of them still in service till the 2006 takeover were built in 1979!
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philabob1
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Mark
Dec 26 2005, 10:21 AM
CACrafter88bk2504,Dec 25 2005
06:51 AM
I think the RTS buses on SEPTA propertyc ould have lasted until 2000. They were speed demons & SEPTA should not have let them fall into disrepair like they did.

Had they kept the RTS buses around, then maybe we would not have a NABI order. Maybe we could have gotten the 15 running sooner & gotten resume service on the entire 23 & entire 56.

Friend, those RTS's were finished by '96 [actually many of them were on their last legs around '94]. What SEPTA should have bought were the Neoplans instead of NABI's. That would have been more compatible with the rest of the fleet [which were Neoplan] than the NABI's.

In fact, why did SEPTA get the NABI's in the first place?

In addition, Ed Rendell [as our then Mayor] should have been more forceful with SEPTA concerniong thye restoration of the 15/23/56. He really should have traded more stable funding for the restoration of the trolley lines.
Agree - the RTS's were falling apart in the late 80's. Through no fault of SEPTA, in many ways - they were not very well designed. The later variations were strengthened (NYC didn't buy any until I believe the 04 model hit the streets, having gone for the big Flxible order in the early days of the advanced design bus (and then having them all tossed off the property). It was interesting that the Ikarus/NABI's had similar problems but got into rehab programs a little more quickly, which solved some of the issues.

Rendell at least got 15 but SEPTA resisted greatly and the results are evident, e.g. the 15 having only 18 rebuilt PCC's which could never make the line, etc.
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